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Author Topic:   VRO Problem

Al_A_Buy posted 09-02-2003 09:01 AM ET (US)
Team - Over the weekend I noticed a high rate of oil consumption. In fact, I went through 1 gal of oil for about 50 gal of gas (50:1), sounds suspicious, don't it.
Anyone have insight into a failure mode that seems to put the VRO pump into a "safe" mode?
Thanks, AlW.

Tom2697 posted 09-02-2003 09:51 AM ET (US)
Consider yourself lucky. Usually, when the VRO goes, no oil gets to the engine and then it seizes. This is why many people (myself included) disable these things and premix the gas. The logic is: "I'd rather blame myself than a mechanism that is prone to failure."
whalercop posted 09-02-2003 09:57 AM ET (US)
mine quit working, engine seized, rebuild. I took it off and just put on standard fuel pump, now I mix it-so I know that there is oil in the fuel. I don't trust them and never will trust the vro's on the older engines.
Tom2697 posted 09-02-2003 12:27 PM ET (US)
There are two ways to disable the VRO pump.
1. Disconnect the oil lines and cap them.
2. Buy a new non-VRO pump (about $140)
Either method will work as I've done both...
Al_A_Buy posted 09-02-2003 12:56 PM ET (US)
Guys - thanks for the responses so far. I fall into the "sold on VRO" camp, so the advice to trash the VRO tends to fall on deaf ears. I have this innate inability to quickly and accurately do the math problems that allow me to figure out if "adding 17.5 gallons of gas to a tank that can hold 40 gallons, how much TCW-3 two stroke oil does the idiot operator add to achieve a 50:1 mixture". Too much like the two trains question. No trust in the head muscle...
A neighbor cubicle denizen offered that an air leak or restriction in the fuel system could cause this symptom. Any knowledgeable marine mechanics wish to weigh in?...
Tom2697 posted 09-02-2003 02:00 PM ET (US)
Just a splash under 1.5 quarts of oil....
Sorry 'bout that! I'm not trying to trash the VRO pump. My brother has a 90 Johnson with the VRO and it runs great!
How did you run the boat during the weekend? Mostly higher speed cruising is my guess...especially since you burned 50 gallons of fuel.
The "oil injection" is designed to lower the amount of oil run through a motor at lower rpms. When running at speed, the engine needs about that ratio to overcome the heat generated by the pistons and the combustion process. At lower rpms, the friction is not as high (slower speeds) and hence the ratio of oil can be lower. Most older style oil injection systems were vacuum operated. As the engine speed increased, the vacuum pressure increased and would draw more oil into the engine. Unless you are running at the lower speeds, 50:1 oil consumption with the VRO sounds normal to me.
Of course, I could be wrong!
whalercop posted 09-02-2003 03:20 PM ET (US)
Al, I too was sold on the VRO, I really liked the idea of not mixing or figuring the ratio. If you choose to keep it, take it by a certified shop or mechanic that can test the pump to make sure it is working properly, also make sure the alarm is working properly, mine was not, so came the seizure and rebuild. If you are sold on them, a rebuild of around 2 grand might change your mind. Also, 2 cycle motors usually run 50:1 ratio's anyway, so I wouldn't be too concerned with it using too much oil, just too little. I just don't trust the things, that is why I removed mine and mix it. I have a newtauk with a 27gal pate tank and it is easy to do. Just my 2 cents.
Al_A_Buy posted 09-02-2003 09:48 PM ET (US)
Guys - thanks for all of the advice - I guess it takes one's own pain to gain the knowledge shared by the group.... Appreciate the help with the math Tom.... I have a great mechanic at the yard where I store the boat. I thought I ask the forum to get a quorum opinion prior to bothering Barry ($).
Thanks,
Al W.
clanton posted 09-03-2003 12:48 AM ET (US)
VRO2s and later VRO pumps pump 50/60 to 1 at all rpms. Fuel line air leaks causes more oil to be pumped. No safe mode.
Gep posted 09-03-2003 10:47 AM ET (US)
Al_A_Buy,
I too didn't like the idea of sitting at the gas dock trying to figure out in my head the oil to gas ratio.
I laminated up a card with the 50:1 ratio from 3oz to 1 gal.
Now all I have to do is figure out how much gas I want to put in and follow the card and add the appropriate amount of oil.
Mike
kglinz posted 09-03-2003 11:07 AM ET (US)
It's easy. Get a cell phone with a calculator. When you refuel take the amount of fuel put in, in gallons times 128. This is the number of fluid oz you've put in. Divide by 50 and that is the number of oz of oil to add. 50 Gal of fuel is 6400 oz. Divide by 50 and you get 128oz or 1 gallon of oil.
tomroe posted 09-03-2003 12:14 PM ET (US)
I bought a plastic container at West Marine that has different mix ratios and markings for the number of ounces of oil and the corresponding gallons of gas. If you are putting in 10 gallons of gas, fill the container up to the ten gallon mark, it doesn't get much more foolproof. My ten year old still double checks to make sure I got it right.
Robob2003 posted 09-03-2003 12:26 PM ET (US)
tomroe,
I have on as well. It's great for mixing martinis until you use it for oil:-)
Bob on Tampa Bay
tomroe posted 09-03-2003 05:25 PM ET (US)
Don't the olives clog your fuel filter?

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Author	Topic: VRO Problem
Al_A_Buy	posted 09-02-2003 09:01 AM ET (US) Team - Over the weekend I noticed a high rate of oil consumption. In fact, I went through 1 gal of oil for about 50 gal of gas (50:1), sounds suspicious, don't it. Anyone have insight into a failure mode that seems to put the VRO pump into a "safe" mode? Thanks, AlW.
Tom2697	posted 09-02-2003 09:51 AM ET (US) Consider yourself lucky. Usually, when the VRO goes, no oil gets to the engine and then it seizes. This is why many people (myself included) disable these things and premix the gas. The logic is: "I'd rather blame myself than a mechanism that is prone to failure."
whalercop	posted 09-02-2003 09:57 AM ET (US) mine quit working, engine seized, rebuild. I took it off and just put on standard fuel pump, now I mix it-so I know that there is oil in the fuel. I don't trust them and never will trust the vro's on the older engines.
Tom2697	posted 09-02-2003 12:27 PM ET (US) There are two ways to disable the VRO pump. 1. Disconnect the oil lines and cap them. 2. Buy a new non-VRO pump (about $140) Either method will work as I've done both...
Al_A_Buy	posted 09-02-2003 12:56 PM ET (US) Guys - thanks for the responses so far. I fall into the "sold on VRO" camp, so the advice to trash the VRO tends to fall on deaf ears. I have this innate inability to quickly and accurately do the math problems that allow me to figure out if "adding 17.5 gallons of gas to a tank that can hold 40 gallons, how much TCW-3 two stroke oil does the idiot operator add to achieve a 50:1 mixture". Too much like the two trains question. No trust in the head muscle... A neighbor cubicle denizen offered that an air leak or restriction in the fuel system could cause this symptom. Any knowledgeable marine mechanics wish to weigh in?...
Tom2697	posted 09-02-2003 02:00 PM ET (US) Just a splash under 1.5 quarts of oil.... Sorry 'bout that! I'm not trying to trash the VRO pump. My brother has a 90 Johnson with the VRO and it runs great! How did you run the boat during the weekend? Mostly higher speed cruising is my guess...especially since you burned 50 gallons of fuel. The "oil injection" is designed to lower the amount of oil run through a motor at lower rpms. When running at speed, the engine needs about that ratio to overcome the heat generated by the pistons and the combustion process. At lower rpms, the friction is not as high (slower speeds) and hence the ratio of oil can be lower. Most older style oil injection systems were vacuum operated. As the engine speed increased, the vacuum pressure increased and would draw more oil into the engine. Unless you are running at the lower speeds, 50:1 oil consumption with the VRO sounds normal to me. Of course, I could be wrong!
whalercop	posted 09-02-2003 03:20 PM ET (US) Al, I too was sold on the VRO, I really liked the idea of not mixing or figuring the ratio. If you choose to keep it, take it by a certified shop or mechanic that can test the pump to make sure it is working properly, also make sure the alarm is working properly, mine was not, so came the seizure and rebuild. If you are sold on them, a rebuild of around 2 grand might change your mind. Also, 2 cycle motors usually run 50:1 ratio's anyway, so I wouldn't be too concerned with it using too much oil, just too little. I just don't trust the things, that is why I removed mine and mix it. I have a newtauk with a 27gal pate tank and it is easy to do. Just my 2 cents.
Al_A_Buy	posted 09-02-2003 09:48 PM ET (US) Guys - thanks for all of the advice - I guess it takes one's own pain to gain the knowledge shared by the group.... Appreciate the help with the math Tom.... I have a great mechanic at the yard where I store the boat. I thought I ask the forum to get a quorum opinion prior to bothering Barry ($). Thanks, Al W.
clanton	posted 09-03-2003 12:48 AM ET (US) VRO2s and later VRO pumps pump 50/60 to 1 at all rpms. Fuel line air leaks causes more oil to be pumped. No safe mode.
Gep	posted 09-03-2003 10:47 AM ET (US) Al_A_Buy, I too didn't like the idea of sitting at the gas dock trying to figure out in my head the oil to gas ratio. I laminated up a card with the 50:1 ratio from 3oz to 1 gal. Now all I have to do is figure out how much gas I want to put in and follow the card and add the appropriate amount of oil. Mike
kglinz	posted 09-03-2003 11:07 AM ET (US) It's easy. Get a cell phone with a calculator. When you refuel take the amount of fuel put in, in gallons times 128. This is the number of fluid oz you've put in. Divide by 50 and that is the number of oz of oil to add. 50 Gal of fuel is 6400 oz. Divide by 50 and you get 128oz or 1 gallon of oil.
tomroe	posted 09-03-2003 12:14 PM ET (US) I bought a plastic container at West Marine that has different mix ratios and markings for the number of ounces of oil and the corresponding gallons of gas. If you are putting in 10 gallons of gas, fill the container up to the ten gallon mark, it doesn't get much more foolproof. My ten year old still double checks to make sure I got it right.
Robob2003	posted 09-03-2003 12:26 PM ET (US) tomroe, I have on as well. It's great for mixing martinis until you use it for oil:-) Bob on Tampa Bay
tomroe	posted 09-03-2003 05:25 PM ET (US) Don't the olives clog your fuel filter?