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Author Topic:   A new type of keel guard

alkar posted 09-07-2003 08:40 PM ET (US)
As many of you know, I used Line-X to cover my interior compartments and the non-skid areas on my deck and gunwales. Well, next week I'm having a Line_X keel guard applied.
I am using the Line-X because I have great faith in it's durability, but there are several additional benefits. First, it is more adaptable to my peculiar needs than the conventional keel guards. Line-X is sprayed on, so I can make the strip wider as it moves aft. That's a nice feature, as the area of the bottom that is likely to be in contact with the beach is larger as the angle of the "V" diminishes and the amount of weight being supported increases. (When the hull first touches the beach there is very little down force, but by the time two or three feet of hull is in contact with the beach there is quite of bit of weight resting on the hull.) The spray application also allows me to make slight adjustments in the thickness of the material - so more protection can be applied where it is needed most.
I was prepared to pay more to have the Line-X applied, but it looks like it's actually going to cost less than the alternatives! I called our Line-X guy and asked what it would cost to apply a strip about 5" by 48" long. He said he thought it would be about $85.
After rolling around under the boat on my creeper, I've decided that I'll need a strip that's closer to 7" by 60". It's still likely to be a real bargain.
For those of you are are prone to be a bit suspicious, I am NOT affiliated with Line-X. I'm just extremely impressed with the flexibility and durability of the product. I wish I invented it.
doobee posted 09-07-2003 09:42 PM ET (US)
I recently heard of an 11' hull that had the entire bottom done. It is being used on a very rocky fresh water lake. I'm still skeptical though.
alkar posted 09-07-2003 11:17 PM ET (US)
Doobee,
The Line-X material is very expensive. (Though, amazingly, still cheaper than the standard keel guard strips.) It is also very heavy.
Although many folks probably do not like it's appearance, I have grown fond of the heavy duty, commercial-like appearance of the Line-X non-skid sections. It's clearly not for everybody.
The weight and the cost make Line-X a poor candidate for many applications, but it seems ideal for the things I have done. What are you skeptical about? What are your concerns?
Alex

By the way, the guys at Line-X have an advertising photo packet which includes several pictures of a nuclear sub that was sprayed with Line-X. The applicator I spoke to said that the textured surface of the Line-X traps millions of little air bubbles which help to make the boat more "slippery" in the water. That seems like an odd claim to make - especially in light of the lengths swimmers go to to REMOVE little turbulence-generating obstrutions as insignificant as body hair to improve speed in the water. Dolphins don't have too many little bumps on them either...
I think the applicator must have misunderstood or forgotten the sales training he had been given. Perhaps the sub was sprayed with Line-X because it helps to absorb the sonar "ping". I don't know, but if the Navy is spraying Line-X on that kind of vessel it can probably stand up to more abuse that it will see on my boat. I'm sure that's the point I was supposed to take home.
ShrimpBurrito posted 09-08-2003 12:53 AM ET (US)
Alkar - I'm very interested in hearing how this works out for you. Please let us know. Where in Oregon are you getting it done? I'm in Portland.
alkar posted 09-08-2003 01:55 PM ET (US)
The Line-X guys in Eugene are doing all my work. Pat, the lead applicator, is a wonderful guy. He's very meticulous, and he's not shy about discouraging a project if he thinks it's a bad idea. I trust them to do a good job at a fair price.
GUNFISH posted 09-08-2003 03:50 PM ET (US)
Don't do it! When I bought my 13'it had Rhino-liner applied on the floor and a strip about 6"wide on the keel. After a couple of months of putting on the trailer and beaching, it started coming loose around the edges and once it did this the pressure of the water when on plane made it all come off. It appears that the surface underneath the keel strip was prepped/sanded sufficiently, but it still worked itself loose. The Rhino-liner on the floor inside is still in good shape but I would strongly advise against putting it anywhere below the water line. GUNFISH
alkar posted 09-08-2003 09:52 PM ET (US)
GUNFISH, I've seen the various bed liner materials delaminate under some circumstances, but I have yet to see it happen where the product has been properly applied. Having said that, it certainly not worth risking damage to the boat. Did the Rhino Liner harm your hull in any way when it was in the process of coming off? What did the keel look like after the strip came off? Was the boat carried on a keel roller trailer? Do you recall where the Rhino first started to separate from the hull?
The Line-X guys guarantee their work so, unless there's potential to damage the hull, I don't have much to lose. What do you think the biggest risk is?
GUNFISH posted 09-09-2003 11:12 AM ET (US)
Alkar, when I first noticed the coating starting to come up it was from the area around where the hull sits on the middle roller. It didn't chip, it just seemed to develop a bubble which allowed water to get in between the coating and the hull. Once this happened, it only took a couple of trips before the bubble had spread to a large enough area that it had to be removed. The hull where I removed the liner did not seem to be damaged in any way, other than the sanding marks from the previous owners prep work. I realize that Line-X and Rhino-liner are two totally different animals so it may be like comparing apples and oranges. Like I said, the previous owner prepped the hull so I do not have the same confidence as if I had done it myself. Hopefully you have good luck if you decide to do this; please post back with results. GUNFISH
triblet posted 09-09-2003 12:08 PM ET (US)
For what it's worth, sharks DO have a rough surface. Maybe
just more than one way to skin a cat, er, fish, er, marine
mammal, er, uh, duh. ;-)

Chuck
JayR posted 09-12-2003 08:55 PM ET (US)
For what it is worth, I have friends (several) that have sprayed the entire bottom of their 17, 18,& 20' Whalers.
All are used on Cape Cod beaches (WITHOUT THE USE OF A RAMP). The boats are dropped in the sand and pushed bow 1st into the water with the help of a "push bar" on the front of their trucks. These boats are then beached at 10-20mph and then dragged up to the hight tide line. That can be as far as 100'. No one and I'll repeat this....NO ONE, has encountered a problem in 4 years of this. Average usage would be about 45 beachings per season.
If that does not provide enough proof as to its' viability, I don't know what will.
jokor3 posted 09-13-2003 07:59 AM ET (US)
jay r.........sprayed the bottom of their boats with what?
what product?
elaelap posted 09-14-2003 10:42 AM ET (US)
I sure wish one of the physics guys, engineers or mathmaticians at this site would describe what happens to a 180 lb human body moving at 20 mph when the boat its riding in comes to a sudden stop...Bigshot had a similar experience not too long ago; how about it, Biggie?
ShrimpBurrito posted 09-14-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
It's actually quite simple. The boat stops, but the body keeps moving at 20 MPH.

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Author	Topic: A new type of keel guard
alkar	posted 09-07-2003 08:40 PM ET (US) As many of you know, I used Line-X to cover my interior compartments and the non-skid areas on my deck and gunwales. Well, next week I'm having a Line_X keel guard applied. I am using the Line-X because I have great faith in it's durability, but there are several additional benefits. First, it is more adaptable to my peculiar needs than the conventional keel guards. Line-X is sprayed on, so I can make the strip wider as it moves aft. That's a nice feature, as the area of the bottom that is likely to be in contact with the beach is larger as the angle of the "V" diminishes and the amount of weight being supported increases. (When the hull first touches the beach there is very little down force, but by the time two or three feet of hull is in contact with the beach there is quite of bit of weight resting on the hull.) The spray application also allows me to make slight adjustments in the thickness of the material - so more protection can be applied where it is needed most. I was prepared to pay more to have the Line-X applied, but it looks like it's actually going to cost less than the alternatives! I called our Line-X guy and asked what it would cost to apply a strip about 5" by 48" long. He said he thought it would be about $85. After rolling around under the boat on my creeper, I've decided that I'll need a strip that's closer to 7" by 60". It's still likely to be a real bargain. For those of you are are prone to be a bit suspicious, I am NOT affiliated with Line-X. I'm just extremely impressed with the flexibility and durability of the product. I wish I invented it.
doobee	posted 09-07-2003 09:42 PM ET (US) I recently heard of an 11' hull that had the entire bottom done. It is being used on a very rocky fresh water lake. I'm still skeptical though.
alkar	posted 09-07-2003 11:17 PM ET (US) Doobee, The Line-X material is very expensive. (Though, amazingly, still cheaper than the standard keel guard strips.) It is also very heavy. Although many folks probably do not like it's appearance, I have grown fond of the heavy duty, commercial-like appearance of the Line-X non-skid sections. It's clearly not for everybody. The weight and the cost make Line-X a poor candidate for many applications, but it seems ideal for the things I have done. What are you skeptical about? What are your concerns? Alex By the way, the guys at Line-X have an advertising photo packet which includes several pictures of a nuclear sub that was sprayed with Line-X. The applicator I spoke to said that the textured surface of the Line-X traps millions of little air bubbles which help to make the boat more "slippery" in the water. That seems like an odd claim to make - especially in light of the lengths swimmers go to to REMOVE little turbulence-generating obstrutions as insignificant as body hair to improve speed in the water. Dolphins don't have too many little bumps on them either... I think the applicator must have misunderstood or forgotten the sales training he had been given. Perhaps the sub was sprayed with Line-X because it helps to absorb the sonar "ping". I don't know, but if the Navy is spraying Line-X on that kind of vessel it can probably stand up to more abuse that it will see on my boat. I'm sure that's the point I was supposed to take home.
ShrimpBurrito	posted 09-08-2003 12:53 AM ET (US) Alkar - I'm very interested in hearing how this works out for you. Please let us know. Where in Oregon are you getting it done? I'm in Portland.
alkar	posted 09-08-2003 01:55 PM ET (US) The Line-X guys in Eugene are doing all my work. Pat, the lead applicator, is a wonderful guy. He's very meticulous, and he's not shy about discouraging a project if he thinks it's a bad idea. I trust them to do a good job at a fair price.
GUNFISH	posted 09-08-2003 03:50 PM ET (US) Don't do it! When I bought my 13'it had Rhino-liner applied on the floor and a strip about 6"wide on the keel. After a couple of months of putting on the trailer and beaching, it started coming loose around the edges and once it did this the pressure of the water when on plane made it all come off. It appears that the surface underneath the keel strip was prepped/sanded sufficiently, but it still worked itself loose. The Rhino-liner on the floor inside is still in good shape but I would strongly advise against putting it anywhere below the water line. GUNFISH
alkar	posted 09-08-2003 09:52 PM ET (US) GUNFISH, I've seen the various bed liner materials delaminate under some circumstances, but I have yet to see it happen where the product has been properly applied. Having said that, it certainly not worth risking damage to the boat. Did the Rhino Liner harm your hull in any way when it was in the process of coming off? What did the keel look like after the strip came off? Was the boat carried on a keel roller trailer? Do you recall where the Rhino first started to separate from the hull? The Line-X guys guarantee their work so, unless there's potential to damage the hull, I don't have much to lose. What do you think the biggest risk is?
GUNFISH	posted 09-09-2003 11:12 AM ET (US) Alkar, when I first noticed the coating starting to come up it was from the area around where the hull sits on the middle roller. It didn't chip, it just seemed to develop a bubble which allowed water to get in between the coating and the hull. Once this happened, it only took a couple of trips before the bubble had spread to a large enough area that it had to be removed. The hull where I removed the liner did not seem to be damaged in any way, other than the sanding marks from the previous owners prep work. I realize that Line-X and Rhino-liner are two totally different animals so it may be like comparing apples and oranges. Like I said, the previous owner prepped the hull so I do not have the same confidence as if I had done it myself. Hopefully you have good luck if you decide to do this; please post back with results. GUNFISH
triblet	posted 09-09-2003 12:08 PM ET (US) For what it's worth, sharks DO have a rough surface. Maybe just more than one way to skin a cat, er, fish, er, marine mammal, er, uh, duh. ;-) Chuck
JayR	posted 09-12-2003 08:55 PM ET (US) For what it is worth, I have friends (several) that have sprayed the entire bottom of their 17, 18,& 20' Whalers. All are used on Cape Cod beaches (WITHOUT THE USE OF A RAMP). The boats are dropped in the sand and pushed bow 1st into the water with the help of a "push bar" on the front of their trucks. These boats are then beached at 10-20mph and then dragged up to the hight tide line. That can be as far as 100'. No one and I'll repeat this....NO ONE, has encountered a problem in 4 years of this. Average usage would be about 45 beachings per season. If that does not provide enough proof as to its' viability, I don't know what will.
jokor3	posted 09-13-2003 07:59 AM ET (US) jay r.........sprayed the bottom of their boats with what? what product?
elaelap	posted 09-14-2003 10:42 AM ET (US) I sure wish one of the physics guys, engineers or mathmaticians at this site would describe what happens to a 180 lb human body moving at 20 mph when the boat its riding in comes to a sudden stop...Bigshot had a similar experience not too long ago; how about it, Biggie?
ShrimpBurrito	posted 09-14-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) It's actually quite simple. The boat stops, but the body keeps moving at 20 MPH.