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Author Topic:   Rebuilt 115 OMC Motor Fails in 18 Hours
mnorman21 posted 10-02-2003 12:40 AM ET (US)   Profile for mnorman21   Send Email to mnorman21  
I had [a 1996 115-HP OCEAN RUNNER Johnson] motor rebuilt less than a year ago by a Johnson certified mechanic. One cylinder was bored and its piston [replaced], but [the cylinder] was not sleeved. The engine never would stay cranked at idle since the rebuild and progresively got worse. [The mechanic] finally looked at the engine, and it had a blown gasket on the #1 cylinder; on futher inspection he saw that the sleeve twisted on the block. I was told that I had a one year warranty on the rebuilt powerhead guarantee by Johnson. Johnson said overheating caused it and it had nothing to do with the rebuild, so they would not honor the warranty. The [over heat alarm] horn works, and it never overheated during the 18 hours I put on it since the rebuild. The mechanic said he will "work" with me on it. I think this should fall under the warranty, what do some you think?
Whalerdan posted 10-02-2003 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     

Have them test the horn. If they test it good, then ask them what gives? Either their horn design is bad or the rework was bad. Either way seems it was their fault.


Bigshot posted 10-02-2003 11:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
If one cylinder was bored but not on earth did a sleeve twist? There should be NO sleeves unless he installed one. If a sleeve twists then he should honor the warranty being he probably rebuilt it wrong and told you he did not install a sleeve.
NEVER SCARED posted 10-02-2003 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    
Tell Johnson if they don't make good, your gonna buy a Suzuki!


Sal DiMercurio posted 10-02-2003 07:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I [am as confused as] Bigshot: was it sleeved or not?

A mechanic doesn't send a powerhead back to the factory to bore one hole, so the mechanic himself did the honing which is no big deal. I think your tech is try to pull a fast one. The only time you would sleeve an engine is if you needed to bore .050-inch or more; on an outboard that is not recommended by anyone I know.


Bigshot posted 10-03-2003 10:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I'll go one step further than Sal. The only other reason you sleeve an engine is when you do shongo [poor?] work. If one piston got stuffed and the other 3 are good then I am assuming he sleeved the one cylinder so that he would not have to by 4 new pistons, only one. If a cylinder is too chopped up and you need to bore it--even .030-inch--then you need to do that on all the other cylinders. You can't have one .030-oversize piston and the rest stock. Therefore you sleeve the one .030 cylinder to make it stock sized and use a stock sized piston.
Sal DiMercurio posted 10-03-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Bigshot, I totally agree with you, but on the other hand, I know a couple guys who are so cheap, they insisted on only doing one hole with an oversize piston and left the other five untouched.
It sure sounds like a botched job to me.
mnorman21 posted 10-10-2003 07:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for mnorman21  Send Email to mnorman21     
Thanks for the response, I've been out of town for a week.

All four pistons were replaced with oversized pistons and a machine shop did bore out the cylinders. The tech at Bombardier said this engine had sleeves from the factory.

The mechanic has now torn open the engine and said a second sleeve was also slightly twisted. He called the orginal manufacturer of the sleeves in California and was told Johnson had a problem from the start, because it only calls for thicker sleeves as replacements. Does this make sense to anyone?

The manufacturer of the sleeves highly recomends replacing all the sleeves while having motor open. I have not received the estimate yet, but I'm sure I won't like it. I already have $2700 in it from the last rebuild and would hate to scrap it, but that's how I am leaning.

The bad thing is it is only one of two motors on my REVENGE 22, and they have only 300 hours and look like new. I'm thinking of selling the good one and the bad one for parts and going with a 225 single. It might help with the water over the transom issue as well. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I've read great things about the new Ficht's, but I am so fed up with Bombardier on this deal I'm thinking about a 2 stroke Yamaha.

Sal DiMercurio posted 10-10-2003 08:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Norman, I am older then dirt and have never heard of Johnson having sleeves or problems with them.
Johnson has been around for many moons, The last major change they made was in 1991 when they went to 60-degree engines on the 150-HP and 175-HP models from 90-degree engines. The next change in their 2 stroke history was (I think) 1999 when they went from 6 carbs to 3 dual-barrel carbs to feed 6 cylinders.

Sleeves?, I dont think so. I'v bored so many johnsons out; the max you can bore is .040. When were these sleeves supposed to be in their engines?

mnorman21 posted 10-11-2003 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for mnorman21  Send Email to mnorman21     
This motor was made from 95-99. It is a 90 degree Loop Charged 115. Bombardier has the serial # of the motor and is telling me the enginge had sleeves.
Sal DiMercurio posted 10-11-2003 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I haven't worked on (torn down) any 115's. That block is the same as the 88 SPL and 90 V4.
clanton posted 10-11-2003 11:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for clanton    
If it is a 90 degree V4, it is a crossflow not a looper. The V4 loopers are 60 degree, except for the 120/140s. Most all Johnson/Evinrude have an aluminum block with a steel liner/sleeve for the cylinder bore. The orignal block is probably cast around the liner/sleeve. When the liner/sleeve is damaged beyond repair, it is bored completely out and a new liner/sleeve is pressed in placed. L.A. SLEEVE in California use to make most of the replacement liners/sleeves. I do not know who makes the orignal liner/sleeve. If the orignal liner/sleeve moved, most of the time it was caused by severe overheat. Movement of a replacement liner/sleeve can be caused by incorrect installation. Precision in Clearwater FLoiida (1-727-446-1163) have repaired blocks and can repair your block. A V4 crossflow block listed for 350.00 in 2002 parts list.
jimh posted 10-12-2003 10:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Edited thread to improve readability. Changed TOPIC; was "Sleeve twisted on 96 Ocean Runner?'--jimh]
Bigshot posted 10-13-2003 10:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
96 Ocean runner would be a 60 degree looper. They never made a crossflow ocean runner.

Buy a new block and screw rebuilding it unless you are sure mechanic is competent. It should be good for many moons.

sargerator posted 10-13-2003 11:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for sargerator  Send Email to sargerator     
Thought OMC got rid of 90 degree 90hp - 115hp motors in the early 90's? Sal, how do they ever bore out and press a new sleeve in those blocks? There seems to be VERY little material beyond the sleeve.
clanton posted 10-13-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for clanton    
The 90 degree crossflow made up to 1997 maby later. nmorman21 said in 3rd post 90 degree engine. If its a 90 degree engine it is a crossflow engine.
clanton posted 10-13-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for clanton    
For information on sleeves see
jimh posted 10-13-2003 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You have to be kidding about that website. Lots of silly graphics and animated stuff, but zero information. Yeesch.
Sal DiMercurio posted 10-14-2003 01:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Sarge, they can only bore .040 max then it's resleeve but I wouldn't resleeve for the world, better off getting a new powerhead because I think they pore the block around the sleeves & once they are removed, it aint gonna be the same.
Bigshot posted 10-14-2003 11:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Yes they made the crossflow until 1998 but it was NEVER an ocean runner. ALl Ocean runners are loopers as well.
sargerator posted 10-14-2003 04:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for sargerator  Send Email to sargerator     
I agree about no sleeve , norm21 just get another block, maybe work a deal out with OMC??? I had to replace head gasket on one motor and the factory used rubber plugs about the diameter of a pencil between the block and cylinder in the water jacket area and I am assuming thats to give some support where there was great distance between block / cylinder casting. Good luck norm21 !
mnorman21 posted 10-15-2003 05:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for mnorman21  Send Email to mnorman21     
Thanks for the ideas. I talked with the mechanic today and he is willing to do labor for half the normal price. Four sleeves, one piston and a rod for a total of $1700. The labor is going to be $400. The one cylinder that the head gasket failed on needs the new piston and rod. All the pistons were replaced with new oversized pistons on the intial rebuild. I like the idea of a new power head and I plan on talking to the bombardier tech about it. I think they should at least give me one at cost. Anyone have any idea what that might be.
mnorman21 posted 10-16-2003 10:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for mnorman21  Send Email to mnorman21     
Just talked to Bombardier about a powerhead at cost. The same a$$hole I've been dealing with laughed out loud and said he would be more than happy to sell me one for $4200 end of discussion. That's it with me and their products. I'm getting the darn thing re-sleeved and selling them both. I leaning towards yamaha, but I promise it won't be johnson or evinrude.

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