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Author Topic:   Hydraulic Steering Oil Check

Crabby Mike posted 10-06-2003 01:15 PM ET (US)
I opened the cap located on the top of the helm behind the steering wheel to check the hydraulic oil. (1986 25’ Outrage)
Upon opening I heard the tell tail hiss of pressure being released; upon visual inspection I could see fluid but it was way down in the reservoir.
What fluid shall I use and how far below the inspection port should it be? The manual only states to use “Sy-ten hydraulic fluid and that the “Correct oil level must be maintained”
Will the system need to be bled or can I just add oil and replace the cap?
Thanks,
Mike

Crabby Mike posted 10-06-2003 03:43 PM ET (US)
I re-checked the fluid level and I cannot see any fluid from the cap behind the wheel.
The hydraulic cylinder is marked Seastar by Teleflex, the cylinder is located directly in front of the starboard engine.
I did run a search for other threads and I am working through the 240 responses but so far no luck.
Thanks again.
Mike
Captain Billy posted 10-06-2003 04:31 PM ET (US)
Mike check here
http://www.seastarsteering.com/SITE_MAP/s_map.htm
I have never used the filling kit. Could not find one around here. It can get a little messy.
Billy
jimh posted 10-06-2003 04:53 PM ET (US)
The current specifications call for a vented cap. My c.1987 Telflex system seems to also to have been rigged with a non-vented cap. A new cap is about $9 retail.
If you have an unbalanced cylinder, the fluid level will rise slightly as the helm is turned in one direction (can't remember if it's actuator rod all out or all in). You fill to within 0.5 inch of vent hole (bottom).
A balanced cylinder (more typical and usually mounted on the engine tiller) should not change fluid levels during rotation.
Don't fill to the brim on a cold day. The fluid will expand on a hot day and over flow.
Also, check for a leak from the helm front shaft. Both LHG and I had leaks from c.1986 helm pumps. The leaks just began in the past few months. A new front shaft seal o-ring cured the leaks.
Crabby Mike posted 10-06-2003 05:20 PM ET (US)
Thanks to Captain Billy and JimH
I looked at Teleflex's site; it looks like the SeaStar oil is sold as a kit with a fill hose. I e-mailed them also because my Whaler also has an autopilot and wanted their input regarding compatibility.
The autopilot's cylinder looks like it should be connected to the SeaStar Cylinder with flex connectors, (currently unconnected). I would think the hydraulic steering would have been upgraded when the autopilot was installed, any ideas on how to check?
While I haven’t seen any hydraulic fluid anywhere I will check for any signs of leakage.
Jim, if the current updated cap is vented then I shouldn't have to bleed the system,just top it off as you recommended?
Mike
jimh posted 10-06-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)
The vent/non-vent cap is not connected with bleeding the system of air.
You can tell if your system has been properly bleed by trying to move the actuator at the engine. Teleflex states it should only move about 0.25 inches maximum. My system moves about 0.125 inch when you heave on it at the engine. I have become quite skilled at bleeding it, as I have done it several times.
You do not need the fill kit to refill the helm pump to the proper level. Just use a funnel and pour some in, slowly.
You will need the fill kit if you want to bleed the system. Depending on the configuration of your actuator, you may or may not have bleeder-Tee's at the hose connection. I think they are a recent invention; they make bleeding the system very easy.
A friend told me that in his experience the best way to bleed a hydraulic system was to provide a full reservoir at the high end, and a slow bleed at the low end, and let gravity slowly fill and bleed the system. I have not tried that myself.
Hydraulic fluid has extremely low viscosity. If you spill a teaspoon of it, it will flow into a puddle about 100-feet across and one molecule thick.
Wear gloves when handling it.
Download the PDF files from the Teleflex website; they tell you everything you need to know.
Crabby Mike posted 10-06-2003 08:59 PM ET (US)
Thanks,
Will do,
hauptjm posted 10-07-2003 11:39 AM ET (US)
As an aside to this thread, what is the life expectancy of hydraulic fluid? jimh, you state it has very low viscosity. I've spilled some; believe me your example is right on the mark. My system was installed in 1995, and (knock-on-wood) has worked flawlessly. Periodically, I'll check the fluid level, and it hasn't budged.
I'm ignorant with regard to fluid dynamics, but it seems that something with a very low viscosity would virtually last forever. Am I wrong, or does it not have the breakdown factor that a higher viscose material does?
The reason I ask is should there be a time that we should replace the old fluid? I'm comparing it to something like brake fluid, which I have never heard had to be replaced, just maintained.
alkar posted 10-07-2003 09:36 PM ET (US)
Mike,
The Teleflex web site includes a contact number for service questions. I have used the number several times. In my experience, their technicians are available, competent, and very willing to help over the phone.
I have an extra set of the Teleflex Sea Star bleed T's if you decide you'd like a set. They really do make system bleeding easier.
Alex
Crabby Mike posted 10-08-2003 06:32 PM ET (US)
I have been in contact via e-mail with Marc Adams with Sea Star (Teleflex) in Canada. He asked me to send him some digitals of my steering components and has determined that it was most likely made between 1989 and 1992, (there is a date stamp but I can not contort myself enough to see it). He will be sending me one of the new-vented plugs (at NO charge!).
He also recommends that the system be bled because of the low fluid level, why take a chance?
Alex, thanks for the offer on the bleed Tee's. The PDF download instructions on Teleflex's site for Purging and Filling the system is temporarily down; but I think I already have the bleed Tee's as in the upper left of the photo?

When I attempted to move the Starboard Engine it moved about 1/8-3/16 of an inch.
The Port Engine moved a bit more but it appears that the slop is in the linkage not the hydraulic cylinder.
On the Starboard Engine there is a black knurled adjustment ring (with an allen head set screw that is loose) the movement noted is the engine moving against a stop and this knurled ring. I hand turned the ring to the RIGHT to contact the stop, this took all movement out of the Starboard Engine.
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/006905.jpg
Shall I lock the ring at this location or leave it in its original location?
Customer Service from Teleflex has been outstanding, if anyone is considering upgrading to hydraulic steering be sure to check with this company.
Thanks all,
Mike
Crabby Mike posted 10-08-2003 06:54 PM ET (US)
Try this link,
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/006905.jpg
Crabby Mike posted 10-08-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)
Was able to get the download from Teleflex,
My question(s) were answered in the download.
Mike
jimh posted 10-08-2003 11:44 PM ET (US)
[Fixed some wild URI's that didn't work--jimh]

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Author	Topic: Hydraulic Steering Oil Check
Crabby Mike	posted 10-06-2003 01:15 PM ET (US) I opened the cap located on the top of the helm behind the steering wheel to check the hydraulic oil. (1986 25’ Outrage) Upon opening I heard the tell tail hiss of pressure being released; upon visual inspection I could see fluid but it was way down in the reservoir. What fluid shall I use and how far below the inspection port should it be? The manual only states to use “Sy-ten hydraulic fluid and that the “Correct oil level must be maintained” Will the system need to be bled or can I just add oil and replace the cap? Thanks, Mike
Crabby Mike	posted 10-06-2003 03:43 PM ET (US) I re-checked the fluid level and I cannot see any fluid from the cap behind the wheel. The hydraulic cylinder is marked Seastar by Teleflex, the cylinder is located directly in front of the starboard engine. I did run a search for other threads and I am working through the 240 responses but so far no luck. Thanks again. Mike
Captain Billy	posted 10-06-2003 04:31 PM ET (US) Mike check here http://www.seastarsteering.com/SITE_MAP/s_map.htm I have never used the filling kit. Could not find one around here. It can get a little messy. Billy
jimh	posted 10-06-2003 04:53 PM ET (US) The current specifications call for a vented cap. My c.1987 Telflex system seems to also to have been rigged with a non-vented cap. A new cap is about $9 retail. If you have an unbalanced cylinder, the fluid level will rise slightly as the helm is turned in one direction (can't remember if it's actuator rod all out or all in). You fill to within 0.5 inch of vent hole (bottom). A balanced cylinder (more typical and usually mounted on the engine tiller) should not change fluid levels during rotation. Don't fill to the brim on a cold day. The fluid will expand on a hot day and over flow. Also, check for a leak from the helm front shaft. Both LHG and I had leaks from c.1986 helm pumps. The leaks just began in the past few months. A new front shaft seal o-ring cured the leaks.
Crabby Mike	posted 10-06-2003 05:20 PM ET (US) Thanks to Captain Billy and JimH I looked at Teleflex's site; it looks like the SeaStar oil is sold as a kit with a fill hose. I e-mailed them also because my Whaler also has an autopilot and wanted their input regarding compatibility. The autopilot's cylinder looks like it should be connected to the SeaStar Cylinder with flex connectors, (currently unconnected). I would think the hydraulic steering would have been upgraded when the autopilot was installed, any ideas on how to check? While I haven’t seen any hydraulic fluid anywhere I will check for any signs of leakage. Jim, if the current updated cap is vented then I shouldn't have to bleed the system,just top it off as you recommended? Mike
jimh	posted 10-06-2003 07:18 PM ET (US) The vent/non-vent cap is not connected with bleeding the system of air. You can tell if your system has been properly bleed by trying to move the actuator at the engine. Teleflex states it should only move about 0.25 inches maximum. My system moves about 0.125 inch when you heave on it at the engine. I have become quite skilled at bleeding it, as I have done it several times. You do not need the fill kit to refill the helm pump to the proper level. Just use a funnel and pour some in, slowly. You will need the fill kit if you want to bleed the system. Depending on the configuration of your actuator, you may or may not have bleeder-Tee's at the hose connection. I think they are a recent invention; they make bleeding the system very easy. A friend told me that in his experience the best way to bleed a hydraulic system was to provide a full reservoir at the high end, and a slow bleed at the low end, and let gravity slowly fill and bleed the system. I have not tried that myself. Hydraulic fluid has extremely low viscosity. If you spill a teaspoon of it, it will flow into a puddle about 100-feet across and one molecule thick. Wear gloves when handling it. Download the PDF files from the Teleflex website; they tell you everything you need to know.
Crabby Mike	posted 10-06-2003 08:59 PM ET (US) Thanks, Will do,
hauptjm	posted 10-07-2003 11:39 AM ET (US) As an aside to this thread, what is the life expectancy of hydraulic fluid? jimh, you state it has very low viscosity. I've spilled some; believe me your example is right on the mark. My system was installed in 1995, and (knock-on-wood) has worked flawlessly. Periodically, I'll check the fluid level, and it hasn't budged. I'm ignorant with regard to fluid dynamics, but it seems that something with a very low viscosity would virtually last forever. Am I wrong, or does it not have the breakdown factor that a higher viscose material does? The reason I ask is should there be a time that we should replace the old fluid? I'm comparing it to something like brake fluid, which I have never heard had to be replaced, just maintained.
alkar	posted 10-07-2003 09:36 PM ET (US) Mike, The Teleflex web site includes a contact number for service questions. I have used the number several times. In my experience, their technicians are available, competent, and very willing to help over the phone. I have an extra set of the Teleflex Sea Star bleed T's if you decide you'd like a set. They really do make system bleeding easier. Alex
Crabby Mike	posted 10-08-2003 06:32 PM ET (US) I have been in contact via e-mail with Marc Adams with Sea Star (Teleflex) in Canada. He asked me to send him some digitals of my steering components and has determined that it was most likely made between 1989 and 1992, (there is a date stamp but I can not contort myself enough to see it). He will be sending me one of the new-vented plugs (at NO charge!). He also recommends that the system be bled because of the low fluid level, why take a chance? Alex, thanks for the offer on the bleed Tee's. The PDF download instructions on Teleflex's site for Purging and Filling the system is temporarily down; but I think I already have the bleed Tee's as in the upper left of the photo? When I attempted to move the Starboard Engine it moved about 1/8-3/16 of an inch. The Port Engine moved a bit more but it appears that the slop is in the linkage not the hydraulic cylinder. On the Starboard Engine there is a black knurled adjustment ring (with an allen head set screw that is loose) the movement noted is the engine moving against a stop and this knurled ring. I hand turned the ring to the RIGHT to contact the stop, this took all movement out of the Starboard Engine. http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/006905.jpg Shall I lock the ring at this location or leave it in its original location? Customer Service from Teleflex has been outstanding, if anyone is considering upgrading to hydraulic steering be sure to check with this company. Thanks all, Mike
Crabby Mike	posted 10-08-2003 06:54 PM ET (US) Try this link, http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/006905.jpg
Crabby Mike	posted 10-08-2003 11:21 PM ET (US) Was able to get the download from Teleflex, My question(s) were answered in the download. Mike
jimh	posted 10-08-2003 11:44 PM ET (US) [Fixed some wild URI's that didn't work--jimh]