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cinco de whaler posted 11-14-2003 10:50 AM ET (US)   Profile for cinco de whaler   Send Email to cinco de whaler  
I have a 1980 22' Outrage and the fish box in front of the cooler seat fills up with water every time it rains. It has a drain plug, which is very difficult to reach and cannot be drained unless the boat is on a plane. I was wondering if anyone had tried to modify this in a way where water does not go into the fish box or have come up with an easy way to drain the box. Also, the floor panels have been removed and replaced during the restoration procees and I did'nt know if Whaler originally designed the channels under the box lid to drain to the stern and somehow this design was affected when the floor was replaced. Also, has anyone had experience with leaving the plug out on the forward anchor locher while the boat is in the water? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
cdnturbo posted 11-14-2003 12:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for cdnturbo  Send Email to cdnturbo     
I have a 1989 20' Outrage and mine is the same as yours. I leave my plug in and have an automatic bilge pump.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-14-2003 05:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I'v never put the plug in my forward fish box.
The water only gets so high & maintains a certain level no matter how much it rains, leave it out.
It also acts as ballast when your coming out of the hole, then drains as you travel, then comes back in when you stop.
Leave it out or it will fill during the rain.
Absolutly no need to put a pump in there, it is designed to hold water in it while stopped & keeps your fish alive if you put them in there.
As said, it's designed to have water in it while not running.
Sal
cinco de whaler posted 11-17-2003 10:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for cinco de whaler  Send Email to cinco de whaler     
I felt like I could leave the plug out of the forward box, which I thought was an anchor locker, but I didn't know if I could leave the plug out of the fish box without it completly filling up with water and possibly filling up the boat.
kingfish posted 11-17-2003 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
cinco de whaler-

I have a sump area at the rear of my forward fishbox in my Outrage 22; the draintube and plug are at the bottom of that sump, and so is a 1000GPH bilge pump with both an automatic and manual switch. If you don't have a bilge pump up there, I'd recommend that you install one. It is difficult to get at, but it can be done and once the bilge pump is hooked up, you won't have to continually fool with the plug.

cinco de whaler posted 11-17-2003 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for cinco de whaler  Send Email to cinco de whaler     
KINGFISH, WHERE DID YOU RUN THE DRAIN LINE FROM THE PUMP?
kingfish posted 11-17-2003 02:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Mine has a thru-hull fitting on the starboard side of the hull that is accessed by removing the plastic cover below the starboard gunwale just even with the console. It would be pretty simple to install one there if you don't have one. It is plumbed from the bilge pump by following the underfloor molded channel that goes toward the console from the area behind the plastic cover, then going forward in the main starboard fore and aft underfloor molded channel that ducks into the live well at the rear starboard corner of the livewell (again, just under the floor).

I'm not sure I've been clear in describing this, but I think all Outrage 22's have these channels I'm describing. If I have confused you, let me know and I'll try again.

kingfish

Sal DiMercurio posted 11-17-2003 05:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Why in the world would you even put a pump in there, it's "SELF" draining, that why it's a Whaler.
Leave the plug out & don't worry about it.
I don't have a pump in my boat because you don't need one.
Sal
kingfish posted 11-17-2003 06:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Sal-

Because I often store things in there that I want to keep dry. If you have an Outrage 22 that you want to operate the way you describe, knock yourself out, but you should understand that a *lot* of 22's came from the factory just the way I described mine.

Sal DiMercurio posted 11-17-2003 10:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Kingfish, mine came from the factory just like yours did with the anchor locker connected to the fishbox.
If you want to store things in there as you say, then it is no longer a fishbox & you need it dry, then you must put the plug in & use a pump, but thats "NOT" what it was intended for thats why theres a hole in the bottom.
So , knock yourself out & store whatever you want in the fishbox.
I only put fish in mine, & the anchor in the locker in front of the fishbox in the anchor locker.
Sal
kingfish posted 11-17-2003 10:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Sal-

I'm not sure what your point is about the connection between the anchor locker and the livewell - I was stating that my boat came with a bilge pump in the sump area at the rear of the livewell. I use my anchor locker as an anchor locker just like you do, apparently.

I'm not cruising around looking for an argument, but cinco de whaler asked some clear questions about how to *not* have his livewell act the way you apparently prefer to have yours operate, and I have attempted to answer his questions from my experience with my livewell that apparently does operate the way he would like his to operate.

I don't understand why you are vociferously and repeatedly trying to tell him something he is not interested in. Am I missing something here?

mtbadfish posted 11-17-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for mtbadfish  Send Email to mtbadfish     
The installation of a bilge pump and availability of a plug for the drain hole seem like inexpensive and reasonable options to have.

It seems to me that in general, the less water being held inside the boat - the better.

The routing of the bilge pump hose on mine is just as Kingfish stated. While my boat is the cuddy model and keeping the area dry is more or less required, the ability to plug the drain and pump any accumulated water overboard would provide some additional versatility for non-cuddy models. Any additional storage space would be appreciated by most.

Sal DiMercurio posted 11-17-2003 11:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
King, yes I think you are missing his point, read it again.
He is concerned about the water filling up his fishbox, not realizing it only gets to a certain level & thats it & hurts absolutly nothing having water in it.
He mentions nothing of needing another storage box & asks if anyone has any experience leaving the plug out.
I'm trying to explain that he dosen't need the plug in there because it wont hurt a thing to leave it out & you keep talking about storage space.
Thats "NOT" his question.
The added ballast from the water weight also helps you get on plane in just a couple seconds, then it drains out & your in fat city with no weight up there, thats what it was designed to do besides hold fish, not as a dry storage area.
Sal
mtbadfish posted 11-18-2003 12:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for mtbadfish  Send Email to mtbadfish     
Sal DiMercurio,

cinco de whaler did ask "I was wondering if anyone had tried to modify this in a way where water does not go into the fish box or have come up with an easy way to drain the box."

You asked "Why in the world would you even put a pump in there, it's "SELF" draining, that why it's a Whaler."

Both questions were answered.

mtbadfish

Sal DiMercurio posted 11-18-2003 12:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Cinco seems to think that the fishbox will fill up with water & sink the boat, thats just not true & theres not even the slightest chance that would happen with the plug "OUT".
It could happen if he has it plugged & the back one plugged while depending on a pump or battery that might fail.
Leave it out & don't even let it concern you in the slightest bit cinco, because that box was designed to allow the water to come in & go out with"OUT" a pump period.
An Outrage Whaler is unsinkable & self draining without the need for a pump anywhere in the boat.
The very best thing anyone can do in an Outrage is leave "ALL" the plugs out & do "NOT" depend on a pump or battery to keep it afloat.
If you do get weak minded & feel a pump is needed & put the plugs "IN", & it rains for days & you can't get to your boat & your pump fails or battery gos south, you have now compromised the self bailing feature of your whaler, so do whatever your little heart desires, just don't come back here crying because your boat has water up to it's gunwales because you depended on a pump instead of the engineers who designed this wonderful self bailing feature on these great boats.
Yes you do need a pump in the cabin in a 25' Outrage cuddy because there is a sump in there & you stand up in there not put fish in there.
Sal
kingfish posted 11-18-2003 09:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Sal, my friend (And I am not using that word sarcastically - I have a huge amount of respect and regard for the experience and information you bring to ContinuousWave)-

I've got to tell you though, you are the first person I've "met" or corresponded with, who operates the livewell of their Outrage 22 the way you do. I understand it, and I can see how, when someone uses their boat the way you like to, it would make sense. I surely don't claim to have over-arching knowlege of how every 22 owner uses their boat, and I could very easily be way off base, only having discussed this with a half-dozen or so others. I'd be really curious, now that I've heard your preferences, to hear from others as to whether they keep their livewell plugged and use a bilge pump, or if they leave the plug out.

Mine is a trailer boat, and is never in the water anywhere for more than two weeks at a time. When it is in the water and I'm not in it, I leave the livewell plugged and one of my two batteries operational via battery switch to operate the bilge pumps, and the plugs *removed* from the two drain holes at the stern corners if I'm not going to be close to it for a day or two. When I do that, the sumps only fill about half full and stabilize, and the water level never gets to the deck, rain or not.

I gained the impression that cinco was looking to understand how to do something similar to that. Another option that would trump all of these things would be to leave all the plugs in and use an effective cover.

kingfish posted 11-18-2003 09:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
p.s.

It's a Whaler, and won't sink even if the plugs are left in with no bilge pump in the rain. A bothersome amount of water might develop inside the boat and have to be pumped or drained (just pull the plugs). A notch transom like mine will stabilize fully swamped with the forward deck deck above water, due to the low transom; a full transom boat would stabilize lower than that, but still would not sink.

Abaco posted 11-18-2003 11:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Abaco  Send Email to Abaco     
I also have a 22 Outrage that is left in the water full time. It seems to me that if the plug is left out, and water is allowed to fill the two fishwell's to the waterline that marine growth will propogate, in addition to losing valuable storage space. Since I don't fish, sealing off the aft live well would solve the problem discussed in this thread. With a waterproof hatch installed, you would still have access to the space.
Knockerjoe posted 11-18-2003 05:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Knockerjoe  Send Email to Knockerjoe     
I thought that the 22 and 25 outrage came with a factory automatic bilge pump in the forward livewell? I leave mine with the plug in. My boat is in the water year round behind my house. The reason being is that i use both livewells as livewells. Getting to that forward plug is a pain in the ass or i would leave it out and put it back in as needed. Both livewells have a bilge pump. After a heavy rain I simply pump the water out of the livewells.
WHALER27CC posted 11-19-2003 08:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for WHALER27CC  Send Email to WHALER27CC     
I had a 1989 22 foot Outrage,it came with a factory installed pump down in there..I mean no disrespect but even though we own Whalers,I wouldnt encourage anybody to just let water sit in any part of the boat.Fishboxes are meant to temporarily fill with water then be drained out.The othere thing to worry about is the added corrosion to the drain tube,which I think we have covered many times in this forum,leaving water in that area will only further speed up the deterioration of that tube
I solved this problem by putting a "floor" that sat about 4 inches above the box bottom, it was made of Starboard and simply sat on Starboard blocks, I could remove it if I needed to use the area as a fish box, and put it back in when I needed use of the area keeping things fairly"dry". The height of this "floor" allowed for water to get in,and go below it for the pump remove it.I left the plug in all the time.Either way I would add a pump,ALL boats even Whalers should have pumps in "bilge" type of areas.I have 3 in my current Whaler,I dont want to get to the point where so much water ever gets in,whether it be on purpose or not, to find out how Unsinkable Whalers are.Bottom line better safe than sorry.Good luck .
Peter
cdnturbo posted 11-19-2003 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for cdnturbo  Send Email to cdnturbo     
I have a large rubbermade waterproof tote that I put in my fishwell to keep things dry.
even though it is safe to leave the plugs out I would rather not have to clean the growth that would accumulate inside the fish well if the plugs were out.
The previous owner of my boat installed the batteries in the front well and when it is flooded they are close to being covered by water(this will be corrected soon, I'm going to move them to the consule).
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-19-2003 10:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Growth only occures when there is light, there is no light in the fishbox ever.
Theres a reason the engineers put a hole in that box & it wasen't to plug it up thats for sure.
A pump in an outrage is like haveing 3 spare tires in the truck of your car, you don't need them, "EVER".
Your only fooling yourself if you think an electric pump will keep you afoat, believe me.
A plugged hole & a dead battery or pump that gos out as they all do, means, your boat will fill with water if it rains even if it's on the trailer.
Do as you please but don't come back crying & saying, hey,....my boat sank on the trailer on in it's berth & I don't know, I have a pump in the sump & the battery went dead.
Leave it out & don't worry about anything cause thats the way their designed to work.
Sal
kingfish posted 11-19-2003 10:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
So is there anybody out there besides Sal who believes a bilge pump in the livewell is a bad idea?
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-20-2003 01:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Why don't you contact Whaler & ask them why they put a hole in there ?
I'm certain they wont tell you to plug it up.
Then you can tell them they made a mistake by putting a hole in there & it needs to be removed in the boats to be built, & it needs a pump instead.
I really don't care if anyone else puts plugs in theirs, the hole is there for a reason & you don't believe it.
How about the hole in the sump at the starboard stern, do you also plug that one ?
If so, you need to take a class on how not to flood your boat.
Both of those through hull fittings are there for a very good reason, & should not be plugged, or your gonna find yourself in a whole lotta trouble in heavy weather or a good rain storm.
Think about it.
Sal
Tom W Clark posted 11-20-2003 02:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
kingfish,

The answer to that question is no.

Boston Whaler actually recommends the bow fishwell be plugged. To quote the Owners Manual for the Outrage 22 (the model being discussed in this thread):

The bow fishwell drain should be left closed...

Folks, the reality is it's your boat and you can do with the drain plugs as you wish. Contrary to some stupendously ignorant advice, leaving the plug in the bow fishwell of your Outrage 22 will not "sink it on it's trailer OR in its berth". Hell, you can plug that sucker, fill it up and give all 100 gallons of whatever a good ride around the bay if you like.

Now if you want to put fish in there and let all that slimy goo drain overboard, that's OK as well. On the other hand, if you want to store something down there and not have it get wet, you're going to have a very difficult time keeping it dry if that plug is * NOT * in there.

We can thank Boston Whaler for being kind enough to provide a drain plug so that when you're scrubbing out the wells, the water will drain out. This can even be done while the boat is in the water and underway. However, if the plug is not reinstalled and the boat comes off plane, guess what? The well will fill with water!

Some Whalers came from the factory with bilge pumps installed in the forward well. I'm fairly confident the plug was intended to be left IN if there's a bilge pump there. Think about it.

There isn't one of the eight drains on an Outrage 22 that HAS to be plugged. The boat won't sink ya know. But there is nothing wrong with leaving the drain plugs in if that serves your needs.

JayR posted 11-20-2003 05:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
The fat lady has sung.....
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-20-2003 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Tom, can you please explain to me just how the water is supposed to get out of a Whaler while on the trailer & the plugs are in during a big rain storm & the battery is dead,....I certainly hope you realize that batteries do go dead & pumps generally fail on average of 40 percent of the time because of corrosion on connections etc.
Say you boat is in the water & you have all the plugs in & it rains 6 inches of rain in 3 days & you haven't been able to get down to your boat for any reason, theres absolutly "NO" place for that water to go & it "WILL" fill your fishbox to the top & even fill your boat to the gunwales if the plugs are in & the battery or pump fails.
Now, leave the plugs all out & the water will "NOT" get any higher in the suimp or fishbox then if you just launched the boat & all is well.
If you think thatS bad info, your not the sailor I thought you were.
Just for your info, I have 10 electric pumps & a motor driven 1.5 inch Jabsco on my Alaska boat & there isn't 1 day that gos by that all ten pumps work because of getting plugged with seaweed or anything so I wouldn't even dream of depending on a single pump to keep the water out of my Whaler.
You are a pretty rude & ignorant person by saying my info is stupendenty ignorant advise.
I'v got more years on the Bering sea then you can count & for some strange reason i'm still alive, so just maybe I might just know what i'm doing.
Being the Capt of a commercial fishing vessel on the Bering Sea for over 30 years & 15 years on the Pacific ocean, I always take the surest way to stay afloat & if I were on the Bering Sea in my Whaler in a storm, you can bet every plug in my boat would be "OUT".
When you find yourself depending on a single pump to keep the water out of anything, your a fool if you comprimise the sure way to keep it draining.
Your the one who is as you say,...stupendently ignorant, think about it.
Sal


Tom W Clark posted 11-20-2003 11:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Sorry Sal. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. You're right of course. I don't know much about boats and I'm rude and unhelpful too. I'll try to follow your good example and be more polite and diplomatic in the future.
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-21-2003 12:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
Your being a real smart ass jerk Tom.
WHALER27CC posted 11-21-2003 10:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for WHALER27CC  Send Email to WHALER27CC     
Sal-
I want to jump in here....I think your observations are good ones,although I dont necessarily agree with them, they are good ones GIVEN the way that YOU use your Whaler. It seems to me you are using your boat for much more of a UTILITARIAN type of boating, yes??? That being the case I think you would tend to view usage of a Whaler from that angle, which is understandable.I have found that you have offered much useful information to this forum,and I hope that you continue to do so.
Tom-
Nobody here will EVER question the accuracy of the information and input you offer here on the forum, to say that it is invaluable would be a HUGE understatement!!I think that based on the way you use your Boats,you are offering a view from a more RECREATIONAL side,yes??(which is the way most of the owners on this forum use their Whalers).That said, your views may differ completely from Sal's. I dont think his observations were stupendously ignorant at all,just from a different view.

I think Sal AND Tom are both correct in thier views , it really comes down to how you use your Whaler when on the water AND, how you store it when you are NOT using it(mooring , trailer, etc...).

Peter

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