posted 02-27-2004 09:51 AM ET (US)        

I've recently purchased an 18' Outrage
w/ the RPS, unfortunately, the vessel is in VA,
half the country and a full mindset away.

Q: What type of degradation is occuring
to these legs such that many here feel the need
to replace them?

Q: Is there a specific weak point, such as a thinner
anchorage location, that tends to fail?

Q: Are there only brown legs, or have black legs
also been produced/installed?

Q: If there are brown and black legs, does anyone know
which color may have been installed on a '90 18' Outrage?

posted 02-27-2004 10:36 AM ET (US)            

I'll try to answer some of your questions. I'm sure someone will jump in if I get it wrong.

Type of Degradition? I don't know of anything specific except what the effects of wind, water, sun and plain time will do to resin.

Specific part of the unit that fails. I have not heard of anyone that sat on their RPS one day only to find themselves on the deck

According to Tom, "brown plastic resin (1975-1994), white plastic resin (1991-199?) and black plastic resin (1995-2002)" So the 1990 Outrage would have had brown legs. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004236.html

As for me, I want to purchase the legs to make an RPS since my 18' Outrage didn't come with one(other half considers the captins chairs comfy only for skiny folks). Unless of course I can sneak away with the one on your boat they are very hard to find. Also for anyone that has an RPS and wants to keep their boat forever if the legs go there will be no way to replace them. The OEM supplier isn't making them since BW isn't using them. There are black ones available at $118.50 each or $237.00 for a pair. While those last I might add, because if you need a pair in 10 years you will probably be SOL. At least one member needs/wants to replace the current legs on his RPS, others of us are looking for parts to build our first one because we are tired of waiting for one to popup on ebay or just want spare parts while we can get them.

posted 02-27-2004 10:41 AM ET (US)            

A: The typical degradation that is suffered by these plastic legs is discoloration or fading. The plastic deteriorates and becomes "bleached out" and the surface can even become a bit fuzzy. The plastic legs almost never actually break.

A: No, there is no weak point that I am aware of for the plastic legs. I am sure that if subjected to extreme stress under laboratory conditions a particular point might fail, but I do not know where that might be. The aluminum Z-legs WERE prone to breaking as well as becoming unsightly from salt water corrosion. That is why the plastic versions were developed.

A: No, there are not just brown legs. There are also white plastic legs used on the Outrage 17 and the black plastic legs that were used late in the 1990s. The original RPS Z-legs were made of unpainted aluminum, however. These were in production from 1970 when they were first designed to c. 1974.

A: A 1990 Outrage 19 (not Outrage 18) would have had the brown Z-legs if the optional RPS was installed.

It should also be pointed out that there were two versions of the brown Z-legs. The first made from 1975 to c. 1980 were modeled on the aluminum ones in that they did not have the pivot frame locating notches in the top of them. The pivot frames on an RPS thus supported had blocks of plywood screwed to the underside of the seat cushion to hold the pivot frames in place.

posted 02-27-2004 11:32 AM ET (US)            

I've asked my father to look at the boat
in his driveway to determine whether I should
jump on board the RPS leg order in Marketplace.

Curious on two points:

1. How did Tom accurately get my first name...

2. While I don't have my HIN information handy,
I recall the bill of sale indicating it was a 1990 hull
and photographs (that I keep in my wallet)
clearly show the port side decal reading " Outrage-18 "
I'll have to check on the HIN, though no real concern.

Thanks again.

posted 02-27-2004 11:55 AM ET (US)            

1. I can put two and two together. Your firm's web site is referred to in your profile, as well as the fact you pointed to it in another thread.

2. Maybe it's a 1989 model? Maybe some of the 18' 6" long Outrages they made in 1990 received the last of the Outrage 18 decals? Who knows. It doesn't really matter; It's the exact same boat either way.

I honestly doubt you need a replacement set of Z-legs. the ones that look bad are the ones that have been sitting outside exposed to sunlight for 20 years.

posted 02-27-2004 12:20 PM ET (US)            

Just for the record on the "Notches" for the Z Legs where you state they were "not" molded in on the 1975 to c. 1980 models...

I had a 1978 Montauk with the Notches molded in.
A friend of mine has a 1977 Montauk with the Notches molded in..

I am not sure about the 1976 model..

Joe Kriz

posted 02-27-2004 01:11 PM ET (US)            

They are coated with a whiteish paint/gelcoat? I cut a 1/4" into one with a pen knife and there is no indication that they ever had any color....just a neutral colored fiber filled resin.

Another variation?

If anyone is interested I'll measure them and take some photos this weekend.

posted 02-27-2004 03:28 PM ET (US)            

I must retract my last statement on the "Notches" for the RPS legs is the 1977 and 1978 Montauk model..
They "DO NOT" have the two single notches....
They have one long notch and then have the wood pieces under the seat that holds the pivot frames in place...
I drove 10 miles to my friends house to double check this as I no longer have a Montauk.

My 1985 Outrage has the 2 separate notches for the pivot frame and no wood blocks...

So, Tom was right as it appears sometime in the early 80's they changed the design of the Z legs to incorporate the 2 separate notches...

My apologies.....

posted 02-27-2004 04:06 PM ET (US)            

I have a pair of the "new" brown legs from the last order. The notches will not prevent you from fastening a plank to the top. They are only large enough to accept the stainless tubing in the RPS, leaving a large "flat" for attachment of a seat.

posted 02-27-2004 10:58 PM ET (US)            

As Bill points out, the notches will do nothing to interfere with your plans.

Here is a photo a Z-leg:

http://empslc.com/c_se5.html

Note that the leg is displayed upside down and that the colors have been changed digitally. This is actually a photo of a brown leg.

posted 02-28-2004 12:42 PM ET (US)            

It would probably be OK, but the tops are designed with the gussets that resist lateral bending forces, so if they are inverted, you give up a little lateral stiffness.

Also, the foot print on the deck will be bigger and you will have a slightly harder time scrubbing the deck around the legs.

Michael,

posted 03-02-2004 05:22 PM ET (US)            

The Z-legs are exaclty the same, apart from the color. Why Whaler chose to use white Z-legs only on the Outrage 17, I do not know. As far as I know, it's the only model that ever received them.

Yes, there is a front and rear, though the screws will line up either way. The legs are designed to "lean" backwards, but some people have them reversed either through personal choice or ignorance. The photos of Hooter's boat show them reversed.