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Author Topic:   Control Rigging question

ratherwhalering posted 02-27-2004 02:18 PM ET (US)
I'm taking delivery of a new engine on Wed., and I have a few basic rigging questions. First, let me list what I have to work with:
1987 Montauk-17, CMC 4" set back plate with 5" slot.
2004 E-Tec 90 (E90DSL)
2004 Bombardier Control Box, remote keyswitch
2003 20' OMC wiring harness (System Check)
2003 15' OMC control cables.
The gauges are new Faria chesapeake black, with a systems check gauge. They are all correctly wired to each other.
So here are the questions:
1. The instrument lights: The positive terminals are connected to a light switch (bow lights), however they are currently grounded to the ignition ground (via the tachometer's ground) instead of directly to the Buss bar. Is this correct?
2. The control cables, wiring harness, gas line, and steering cable: I have seen three set ups, with the steering cable always taking the same big (starboard then port into the tilt tube) bend at the stern. I have seen three options:

(a) The remaining "controls" (gas, wiring, control cables) go straight from the bilge tube to the engine. (this is how the system was set up before I started this project.)
(b) The remaining controls are "zipped tied" to the steering cable, take the starboard bend, go in front of the tilt tube, past the end of the steering arm linkage, take a big loop and enter the engine. ( as per binnacle installation guide.)
(c) The remaining control cables are "zipped tied" to the steering cable, take the starboard bend, then take a forward (toward the bow) bend, and go directly into the the engine. (Saw this set up by a reputable local dealer.)
Note: The 18' steering cable is a perfect fit, and I can exchange the control cables to 19' for option (b) & (c). The wiring harness is already too long, but the extra length can hide under the console for option (a).
lhg posted 02-27-2004 04:55 PM ET (US)
I'm not familiar with Evinrude products at all, but am with instrument lighting. It sounds like yours are wired for lighting controlled by the navigation light switch. Some like it this way, but I don't. Mercury's instruments always come with a link (which can be removed to accomplish switched gauge lighting) which keeps the gauge light on automatically whenever the ignition is "on", day or night. Since gauge lamps seem to last forever, the heat generated by the lamp helps keep the gauge fog free, and helps dry them out should condensation get in (which it will). I would recommend this type of wiring setup. On after-market gauges like Teleflex, Faria, etc., it is accomplished by a simple jumper wire on the back of the gauge from the Ignition terminal to the light terminal.
ratherwhalering posted 02-27-2004 05:27 PM ET (US)
Larry, an excellent point. There is a similar "power pole" on the tach that activates the instruments when the ignition is on, and only when the engine is running, but I'll have to double check on Saturday. (I believe it is for the hour meter.) Currently, all my instruments are tied into this pole, however the lighting is a separate wiring system. I like your method of the instruments (and lighting) turning on when I turn on the ignition, and then have the hour meter start when the engine starts. If I put lighting wiring directly to the buss bar, (pos and neg) of course they will be on all the time. So I guess it comes down to when does the negative ground for the ignition kick in? Any experience or comments are appreciated!
ratherwhalering posted 03-02-2004 10:34 AM ET (US)
Bump!
ratherwhalering posted 03-02-2004 10:37 AM ET (US)
Larry answered my question regarding the instrument lighting, and I have rewired, but I'm still wondering if it matters how the control cables and such are rigged.
LHG posted 03-02-2004 02:26 PM ET (US)
I think the cleanest solution is to have everything follow the steering cable to the engine out of the tunnel. The control cables will need some extra play however. See if you can find some photos of a factory rigged Classic Montauk on this site.
ratherwhalering posted 03-02-2004 04:14 PM ET (US)
I just visited my local OMC rigger, and he uses shorter cables and fewer bends, with the cables running from the bilge tube, over the splash well, and into the engine, with some play for turning. This seems to be the most common set-up. Thanks for the reply though, Larry.
Mike Brantley posted 03-02-2004 04:27 PM ET (US)
Rob, only hours left before you get your E-Tec! I know you are thrilled. Careful with that shipping crate. Mine was kind of thin at the base.
ratherwhalering posted 03-03-2004 11:42 AM ET (US)
Mike: Shipment was delayed, again...but only until Monday!
Tom W Clark posted 03-03-2004 11:47 AM ET (US)
How to route the control cables on a Montauk? No question, I am with Larry one this one.
The control cables should be bundled with the steering cable and them make a big 270 degree loop in front of the motor and go straight in. This will both look the best and minimize the bending of the control cables at any given steering angle.
Salmon Tub posted 03-03-2004 12:19 PM ET (US)
Rob, one thing to consider when routeing the control cables is the following:
Logic would dictate that the easiest way to run the control cables is for you to insert them from the console side, push through to the bilge, then route to the engine. This is easier than fishing them out from the hole under the console, but, I for asthetic reasons, you may wish to do the process in reverse. I would suggest that you connect them to the engine, route them with the apropriate amount of slack to the steering cable, secure with a few ties, lay the rest if the cablein the general direction of the bilge (on top of the deck between or next to the tank(s) and then turn the engine right and left several times with the wheel. Observe the cable as you turn the wheel and adjust the slack as needed. Also, if the routing will create any kind of twisting if the cable, this is when you will be able to correct it. Once you are satisfied with the set up at the engine side, you can then permanently secure the cables and route the rest of the cables forward. Cover the ends of the cable with a plastic bag and some tape to protect the ends from debris and crud in the bilge. Any additional slack at the helm will be out of sight, and you wont have to worry about any twisting in the cable. I personall prefer to run my gas line independently from any of the other cables and wiring.
Regarding wiring, I would say that it depends on your console. On my Montauk, I have the thin black plates that hold the gauges, so when I need to pull a guage, I pull the whole plate and then detach the guage. In my case, I am better off to have the guages grounded in series (short wires from one to the other) to avoid the bird nest effect. If your gauges are mounted directly to the console, then you may be better off grounding each guage seperately to the buss with longer pig-tails so that you when you need to remove one, all you need to do from inside the console is unscrew the clamp that holds the guage, pull it out with the wires, then remove the wires from the outside, this just makes the work a bit easier. Downside is you will have more wires on the inside to give that birds nest look (remember that the positive wires should be just as long in such a case. As I recall though, most whaler consoles are made like mine, except for maybe some of the old wooden ones.
Good luck, would love to see how that engine performs. Did you buy it from MM in Loch Lomond?
Joe Kriz posted 03-03-2004 12:43 PM ET (US)
I know I have posted this link before, but here is the setup on my prior 1978 Montauk.
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Montauk/montauk.html
The Engine manufacturer recommends making a large loop at the engine end. Also notice all the wiring (except the lights) run out the tunnel along the Steering cable which is 17 feet long on this Montauk. The Throttle and Shift cables are 20 feet long and give a nice loop along with keeping the cables low and out of the way..
Everyone has their own idea how to install new cables through the tunnel. Here is what has worked best for me..
I start the cables from under the console tunnel to the rear. The cables are now laying in the tunnel in a straight line from the Bow Locker to up and over the transom. I then make a large loop in front of the console and run the cables up and under the console access hole. Doing it this way makes it very easy to get it up and under the console.. Attach the control cables to your engine controls and pull all the slack out from the rear. Make your loop at the rear and attach to engine... Secure your cables where needed.
This is by far the easiest method I have used. It works for me.
ratherwhalering posted 03-03-2004 07:06 PM ET (US)
O.K., thanks guys, great info. I'm going to route with the steering cable, along with the wiring harness and gas line. I'm assuming I'll need 20' control cables, since my steering cable is 18', and I'll need an additional 1.5' for the loop (12in loop diameter x 3.14) and 4" for the set-back bracket. I'll try to keep you guys "in the loop" (pun intended.) I'll be taking Monday off to...uhh...err..work from a remote office.
LHG posted 03-03-2004 07:49 PM ET (US)
For a Classic Montauk, both the 18' steering cable and 20' control cables sound long. I'd check on that, or get opther opinions here first. I use 18' hydraulic steering hose on my larger 18 Outrage.
Joe Kriz posted 03-03-2004 09:38 PM ET (US)
LHG,
I can assure you that I have done this before...
Yes, they do indeed sound LONG but they are NOT...
I used a 17' Steering cable on an Evinrude engine in the photos.. If a person has a setback bracket, I would suggest 18'...
As far as the Control Cables... I tried 18', 19', and then ended up with the 20'. The 20' cables are shown in the photos...
Now, if the engine does not have the control cable entrance on the starboard side of the engine like my Evinrude, then the control cables may be a different length...
My dealer even thought the Control Cables sounded long for a 16' 7" boat and that is why he let me try the different lengths... As said above, I ended up with the 20 foot Control Cables and the 17 foot Steering Cable.
I have done this same procedure on a friend of mines Montauk only we used the 18' Steering Cable as that is what he ordered from Teleflex... We still used the 20' Control Cables....
Joe
ratherwhalering posted 03-04-2004 01:23 PM ET (US)
The 20' control cables are correct, I measured using the old 15' cables (marked them, disconnected from the control box, routed along steering cable from the stern, and subtracted the difference (4'6"). Thanks for the comments guys. Look for the photos and performance numbers late next week. (also thanks Salmon Tub and Tom for the other useful tips!)
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-04-2004 10:08 PM ET (US)
I just replaced the steering cable on my '97ish Montauk.
What came out was 18', what went back in was 18'. I believe
the factory did use 17' on some of the early ones, but
changed to 18', and recommends using 18' if the 17' cable
is replaced.
The steering cable must start into the tunnel at the stern
end. If you start it in at the console end, the straight
stainless part that attaches to the motor won't get around
the first corner.

Chuck
Tom W Clark posted 03-04-2004 10:20 PM ET (US)
Chuck,
That is good information. It confirms my intuition that an 18' steering cable would be better. Looking at Joe's Montauk linked above, it seemed to me that the steering cable on his 1978 Montauk made a shorter, sharper bend in the stern than either my 1980 or 1981 Montauks had.
Joe Kriz posted 03-04-2004 10:47 PM ET (US)
Chuck,
What corner are you talking about?
The tunnel in the Montauks that I know are completely straight.. From undereneath the console to where it comes out at the splashwell is completely straight... Where is the "First Corner"???
All that I found necessary to install the cable is to remove the Sump Cover to install any Steering cable.....
Tom,
The cable in my photo is of the original 1977 cable that was 17 feet long and I never had any problems with it... It worked perfectly.... That photo was taken around 2002 and the only thing that was happening to the cable is that the black plastic housing was cracking... Not just in the bend but everywhere from old age.... If the plastic would not have been cracking from age, I am sure it would have continued to work perfectly....
The reason I like the 17 foot is because it does not take up the footwell space nearly as much as the 18 foot.... Yes, I have installed the 18 foot on other Montauks but I am not sure if they will last any longer then the 17 foot because of the tighter radius at the stern.....
For me, if I ever have to replace another steering cable in a Montauk, I think it would be the 17 foot..... Just my preference.... and it appeared to be original to the earlier Montauks...
Salmon Tub posted 03-08-2004 07:47 PM ET (US)
Bump.
Rob, how goes it?
ratherwhalering posted 03-09-2004 10:30 AM ET (US)
Well, I'm back! I only have time for a short narrative, as I have to make up for taking yesterday off. I'll be sure to detail this adventure in a new thread, once I upload pictures and find some free time. (I took alot of photos!) I picked up the motor at the Roadway depot in Santa Rosa, and had it loaded into my truck. A quick drive to Marin, and it time to rip her open. Using a hoist, I removed the engine from the box. A well balanced lifting eye is supplied with the engine (No flywheel bolts needed). A few hours of tinkering, and I sent it off to my mechanic for reprogramming.
A few things I noticed, and wanted to clear up. The white 20" E90DSL is the saltwater edition, or the sticker says so. There are NO BLIND HOLE MOUNTS in the engine bracket. I'm darn lucky I decided to mount a set back bracket. The wiring harness was very difficult to mount properly. The engine compartment is so compact, it was difficult to find the space to install the control cables. The engine comes with propeller accessories, and my old prop fit just dandy. This engine is TINY, in fact, it looks smaller than the Nissan 2S 70. I'm going to have to get used to it after that Johnson V-4 (which by the way was a great engine too)
Thats it for now, Thursday I'll post the numbers and photos.
Mike Brantley posted 03-09-2004 01:32 PM ET (US)
Congratulations, Rob!

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Author	Topic: Control Rigging question
ratherwhalering	posted 02-27-2004 02:18 PM ET (US) I'm taking delivery of a new engine on Wed., and I have a few basic rigging questions. First, let me list what I have to work with: 1987 Montauk-17, CMC 4" set back plate with 5" slot. 2004 E-Tec 90 (E90DSL) 2004 Bombardier Control Box, remote keyswitch 2003 20' OMC wiring harness (System Check) 2003 15' OMC control cables. The gauges are new Faria chesapeake black, with a systems check gauge. They are all correctly wired to each other. So here are the questions: 1. The instrument lights: The positive terminals are connected to a light switch (bow lights), however they are currently grounded to the ignition ground (via the tachometer's ground) instead of directly to the Buss bar. Is this correct? 2. The control cables, wiring harness, gas line, and steering cable: I have seen three set ups, with the steering cable always taking the same big (starboard then port into the tilt tube) bend at the stern. I have seen three options: (a) The remaining "controls" (gas, wiring, control cables) go straight from the bilge tube to the engine. (this is how the system was set up before I started this project.) (b) The remaining controls are "zipped tied" to the steering cable, take the starboard bend, go in front of the tilt tube, past the end of the steering arm linkage, take a big loop and enter the engine. ( as per binnacle installation guide.) (c) The remaining control cables are "zipped tied" to the steering cable, take the starboard bend, then take a forward (toward the bow) bend, and go directly into the the engine. (Saw this set up by a reputable local dealer.) Note: The 18' steering cable is a perfect fit, and I can exchange the control cables to 19' for option (b) & (c). The wiring harness is already too long, but the extra length can hide under the console for option (a).
lhg	posted 02-27-2004 04:55 PM ET (US) I'm not familiar with Evinrude products at all, but am with instrument lighting. It sounds like yours are wired for lighting controlled by the navigation light switch. Some like it this way, but I don't. Mercury's instruments always come with a link (which can be removed to accomplish switched gauge lighting) which keeps the gauge light on automatically whenever the ignition is "on", day or night. Since gauge lamps seem to last forever, the heat generated by the lamp helps keep the gauge fog free, and helps dry them out should condensation get in (which it will). I would recommend this type of wiring setup. On after-market gauges like Teleflex, Faria, etc., it is accomplished by a simple jumper wire on the back of the gauge from the Ignition terminal to the light terminal.
ratherwhalering	posted 02-27-2004 05:27 PM ET (US) Larry, an excellent point. There is a similar "power pole" on the tach that activates the instruments when the ignition is on, and only when the engine is running, but I'll have to double check on Saturday. (I believe it is for the hour meter.) Currently, all my instruments are tied into this pole, however the lighting is a separate wiring system. I like your method of the instruments (and lighting) turning on when I turn on the ignition, and then have the hour meter start when the engine starts. If I put lighting wiring directly to the buss bar, (pos and neg) of course they will be on all the time. So I guess it comes down to when does the negative ground for the ignition kick in? Any experience or comments are appreciated!
ratherwhalering	posted 03-02-2004 10:34 AM ET (US) Bump!
ratherwhalering	posted 03-02-2004 10:37 AM ET (US) Larry answered my question regarding the instrument lighting, and I have rewired, but I'm still wondering if it matters how the control cables and such are rigged.
LHG	posted 03-02-2004 02:26 PM ET (US) I think the cleanest solution is to have everything follow the steering cable to the engine out of the tunnel. The control cables will need some extra play however. See if you can find some photos of a factory rigged Classic Montauk on this site.
ratherwhalering	posted 03-02-2004 04:14 PM ET (US) I just visited my local OMC rigger, and he uses shorter cables and fewer bends, with the cables running from the bilge tube, over the splash well, and into the engine, with some play for turning. This seems to be the most common set-up. Thanks for the reply though, Larry.
Mike Brantley	posted 03-02-2004 04:27 PM ET (US) Rob, only hours left before you get your E-Tec! I know you are thrilled. Careful with that shipping crate. Mine was kind of thin at the base.
ratherwhalering	posted 03-03-2004 11:42 AM ET (US) Mike: Shipment was delayed, again...but only until Monday!
Tom W Clark	posted 03-03-2004 11:47 AM ET (US) How to route the control cables on a Montauk? No question, I am with Larry one this one. The control cables should be bundled with the steering cable and them make a big 270 degree loop in front of the motor and go straight in. This will both look the best and minimize the bending of the control cables at any given steering angle.
Salmon Tub	posted 03-03-2004 12:19 PM ET (US) Rob, one thing to consider when routeing the control cables is the following: Logic would dictate that the easiest way to run the control cables is for you to insert them from the console side, push through to the bilge, then route to the engine. This is easier than fishing them out from the hole under the console, but, I for asthetic reasons, you may wish to do the process in reverse. I would suggest that you connect them to the engine, route them with the apropriate amount of slack to the steering cable, secure with a few ties, lay the rest if the cablein the general direction of the bilge (on top of the deck between or next to the tank(s) and then turn the engine right and left several times with the wheel. Observe the cable as you turn the wheel and adjust the slack as needed. Also, if the routing will create any kind of twisting if the cable, this is when you will be able to correct it. Once you are satisfied with the set up at the engine side, you can then permanently secure the cables and route the rest of the cables forward. Cover the ends of the cable with a plastic bag and some tape to protect the ends from debris and crud in the bilge. Any additional slack at the helm will be out of sight, and you wont have to worry about any twisting in the cable. I personall prefer to run my gas line independently from any of the other cables and wiring. Regarding wiring, I would say that it depends on your console. On my Montauk, I have the thin black plates that hold the gauges, so when I need to pull a guage, I pull the whole plate and then detach the guage. In my case, I am better off to have the guages grounded in series (short wires from one to the other) to avoid the bird nest effect. If your gauges are mounted directly to the console, then you may be better off grounding each guage seperately to the buss with longer pig-tails so that you when you need to remove one, all you need to do from inside the console is unscrew the clamp that holds the guage, pull it out with the wires, then remove the wires from the outside, this just makes the work a bit easier. Downside is you will have more wires on the inside to give that birds nest look (remember that the positive wires should be just as long in such a case. As I recall though, most whaler consoles are made like mine, except for maybe some of the old wooden ones. Good luck, would love to see how that engine performs. Did you buy it from MM in Loch Lomond?
Joe Kriz	posted 03-03-2004 12:43 PM ET (US) I know I have posted this link before, but here is the setup on my prior 1978 Montauk. www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Montauk/montauk.html The Engine manufacturer recommends making a large loop at the engine end. Also notice all the wiring (except the lights) run out the tunnel along the Steering cable which is 17 feet long on this Montauk. The Throttle and Shift cables are 20 feet long and give a nice loop along with keeping the cables low and out of the way.. Everyone has their own idea how to install new cables through the tunnel. Here is what has worked best for me.. I start the cables from under the console tunnel to the rear. The cables are now laying in the tunnel in a straight line from the Bow Locker to up and over the transom. I then make a large loop in front of the console and run the cables up and under the console access hole. Doing it this way makes it very easy to get it up and under the console.. Attach the control cables to your engine controls and pull all the slack out from the rear. Make your loop at the rear and attach to engine... Secure your cables where needed. This is by far the easiest method I have used. It works for me.
ratherwhalering	posted 03-03-2004 07:06 PM ET (US) O.K., thanks guys, great info. I'm going to route with the steering cable, along with the wiring harness and gas line. I'm assuming I'll need 20' control cables, since my steering cable is 18', and I'll need an additional 1.5' for the loop (12in loop diameter x 3.14) and 4" for the set-back bracket. I'll try to keep you guys "in the loop" (pun intended.) I'll be taking Monday off to...uhh...err..work from a remote office.
LHG	posted 03-03-2004 07:49 PM ET (US) For a Classic Montauk, both the 18' steering cable and 20' control cables sound long. I'd check on that, or get opther opinions here first. I use 18' hydraulic steering hose on my larger 18 Outrage.
Joe Kriz	posted 03-03-2004 09:38 PM ET (US) LHG, I can assure you that I have done this before... Yes, they do indeed sound LONG but they are NOT... I used a 17' Steering cable on an Evinrude engine in the photos.. If a person has a setback bracket, I would suggest 18'... As far as the Control Cables... I tried 18', 19', and then ended up with the 20'. The 20' cables are shown in the photos... Now, if the engine does not have the control cable entrance on the starboard side of the engine like my Evinrude, then the control cables may be a different length... My dealer even thought the Control Cables sounded long for a 16' 7" boat and that is why he let me try the different lengths... As said above, I ended up with the 20 foot Control Cables and the 17 foot Steering Cable. I have done this same procedure on a friend of mines Montauk only we used the 18' Steering Cable as that is what he ordered from Teleflex... We still used the 20' Control Cables.... Joe
ratherwhalering	posted 03-04-2004 01:23 PM ET (US) The 20' control cables are correct, I measured using the old 15' cables (marked them, disconnected from the control box, routed along steering cable from the stern, and subtracted the difference (4'6"). Thanks for the comments guys. Look for the photos and performance numbers late next week. (also thanks Salmon Tub and Tom for the other useful tips!)
Chuck Tribolet	posted 03-04-2004 10:08 PM ET (US) I just replaced the steering cable on my '97ish Montauk. What came out was 18', what went back in was 18'. I believe the factory did use 17' on some of the early ones, but changed to 18', and recommends using 18' if the 17' cable is replaced. The steering cable must start into the tunnel at the stern end. If you start it in at the console end, the straight stainless part that attaches to the motor won't get around the first corner. Chuck
Tom W Clark	posted 03-04-2004 10:20 PM ET (US) Chuck, That is good information. It confirms my intuition that an 18' steering cable would be better. Looking at Joe's Montauk linked above, it seemed to me that the steering cable on his 1978 Montauk made a shorter, sharper bend in the stern than either my 1980 or 1981 Montauks had.
Joe Kriz	posted 03-04-2004 10:47 PM ET (US) Chuck, What corner are you talking about? The tunnel in the Montauks that I know are completely straight.. From undereneath the console to where it comes out at the splashwell is completely straight... Where is the "First Corner"??? All that I found necessary to install the cable is to remove the Sump Cover to install any Steering cable..... Tom, The cable in my photo is of the original 1977 cable that was 17 feet long and I never had any problems with it... It worked perfectly.... That photo was taken around 2002 and the only thing that was happening to the cable is that the black plastic housing was cracking... Not just in the bend but everywhere from old age.... If the plastic would not have been cracking from age, I am sure it would have continued to work perfectly.... The reason I like the 17 foot is because it does not take up the footwell space nearly as much as the 18 foot.... Yes, I have installed the 18 foot on other Montauks but I am not sure if they will last any longer then the 17 foot because of the tighter radius at the stern..... For me, if I ever have to replace another steering cable in a Montauk, I think it would be the 17 foot..... Just my preference.... and it appeared to be original to the earlier Montauks...
Salmon Tub	posted 03-08-2004 07:47 PM ET (US) Bump. Rob, how goes it?
ratherwhalering	posted 03-09-2004 10:30 AM ET (US) Well, I'm back! I only have time for a short narrative, as I have to make up for taking yesterday off. I'll be sure to detail this adventure in a new thread, once I upload pictures and find some free time. (I took alot of photos!) I picked up the motor at the Roadway depot in Santa Rosa, and had it loaded into my truck. A quick drive to Marin, and it time to rip her open. Using a hoist, I removed the engine from the box. A well balanced lifting eye is supplied with the engine (No flywheel bolts needed). A few hours of tinkering, and I sent it off to my mechanic for reprogramming. A few things I noticed, and wanted to clear up. The white 20" E90DSL is the saltwater edition, or the sticker says so. There are NO BLIND HOLE MOUNTS in the engine bracket. I'm darn lucky I decided to mount a set back bracket. The wiring harness was very difficult to mount properly. The engine compartment is so compact, it was difficult to find the space to install the control cables. The engine comes with propeller accessories, and my old prop fit just dandy. This engine is TINY, in fact, it looks smaller than the Nissan 2S 70. I'm going to have to get used to it after that Johnson V-4 (which by the way was a great engine too) Thats it for now, Thursday I'll post the numbers and photos.
Mike Brantley	posted 03-09-2004 01:32 PM ET (US) Congratulations, Rob!