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Author Topic:   trailer brake bleeding

chrisrich posted 03-06-2004 10:09 PM ET (US)
I have a 89 18.5 Outrage sitting on a 2000 tandem Pacific trailer with surge drums brakes.
I've just done a replacement of my rear backing plate assemblies,with shoes,cylinders,lines,seals.
I can't get my brake master to bleed.
I use my trailer ball attached to my receiver tube, and am pumping. I cant get any fluid to come directly out of the master cylinder, or for that matter-the rear cylinders.
I got some workout today trying to pump that master.
The master feels pretty crappy/sludgy inside.
The trailer has been exposed to saltwater only,(of course with rear washouts).
I pretty much figure that I need a new master cylinder.
Any other opinions?
The other info is the master sits in a Atwood tongue carrier.
Thanks for yor time, and any help offered.
Richard

jimh posted 03-16-2004 08:29 PM ET (US)
I have some experience bleeding brakes on a Pacific trailer--not always when I planned to do it, either. Last time was in a motel parking lot at 7 a.m. in the middle of a 2,500 mile trip.
There must be something awry with your master cylinder. Most hydraulic fluid is so low viscosity that it will flow and flow and flow--you can't stop it. It's like plutonium trying to escape from a nuclear weapons laboratory!
A colleague of mine (who has seven children and put them all through college) does most of his own auto maintenance, like brake work. He told me the best way to bleed brakes was just to let the fluid flow for a while by gravity. Assuming your master cylinder is above your brake cylinders, that should work.
Let us know what you found when you finally fix this problem.
HappyTime posted 03-19-2004 01:01 PM ET (US)
I service my trailer brake and all my 3 4x4 trucks. Here is the the bleeding procedure:
If you can find a helper it's much more easier. If not you still can do it yourself, I prefer 1 person work because I can do my own brake anytime w/o relying on onother person.
Even my 10 year old son can help.
1.Make sure the bleeding nuts are completed closed (but not tightened)
2.Fill up the resevoir with DOT3 break fluid.
3.Helper: Use a 2ft tube (like the galvanized plumbing tube) slightly pull the emergency release bar about 2/3 , but don't pull too far it will lock (if it is locked you just have to pry the locking pin to release it). Hold the tube in position and do not move.
4. You: slowly open the break nuts until some fluid squid out, notice there is some bubbles that's what you want to get rid of. While the fluid is bleeding out, close the nut but not too tight.
5. Helper: Let go the the release latch (the tube).
6. Helper: Pull the latch 2/3 again.
7. You: Open blake nut again, and observe it the fluid is still bubbles.
8. Go back to 3 to 7 until the brake fluid is solid when you open the nut. You might want to check the reservoir to make sure it's not empty, if it's empty while you bleed you the air will get into the break system and you have to start all over.
9. Repeat the other wheel with the same steps.
In other words the protocol is like this: Pull and hold,
bleed, let go, pull and hold, bleed, let go.
10. You can feel the break is no longer mushy if no more
air is in the break system when you pull the release latch.
11. To double check the brake I raise the wheel and have
the person to pull the latch and I spin it to see it if its brake then release to make sure it free or slightly brakes.

The trick when you don't have a helper is: I pull the brake latch with the plumbing tube and hold it in place by tying it to the back of my truck with a piece of rope.
Basically what is happening is when you pull the latch you compress the master cylinder and it pushes the brake fluid toward the brake caliper, then you open the nuts the fluid oozes out,eventually the bubble inside the system will be rid of.
andygere posted 03-19-2004 01:16 PM ET (US)
It sounds like a bad or plugged master cylinder.
In addition to the advice offered already, I use a 1-2 foot section of clear tubing that will fit tightly over the end of the bleeder nipple. When bleeding the wheel cylinder, I make sure the end of that tubing is submerged in a few inches of brake fluid in a clean container. This prevents any air from being drawn back into the system if the bleeder valve is not closed in time. It also prevents you from polluting your driveway, yard and trailer with brake fluid.
jimh posted 03-19-2004 05:43 PM ET (US)
I just use a $5 brake bleeder kit that includes three sizes of rubber boots to fit over the bleeder, a length of clear plastic hose, and a small reservoir to collect the brake fluid that provides a vent and also keeps the fluid inlet submerged in the brake fluid. You can get these kits at most auto part stores.
I remove the drawbar from the hitch on the GMC Suburban, and snap the hitch ball into the trailer hitch. My assistant operates the surge brake coupler using the hitch drawbar as a lever. The assistant adds fluid to the brake cylinder reservoir to keep it full as the brakes are bled.
I crawl under the trailer with the proper closed-end 6-point wrench to loosen the bleeder. If you use an open end wrench or a 12-point closed end wrench you can easily round off the bleeder.
BW23 posted 03-19-2004 06:48 PM ET (US)
http://www.championtrailers.com/
Good info in their tech assistance.
chrisrich posted 03-25-2004 10:22 PM ET (US)
The fix was a new brake master.
I now have a good brake fluid flush out of the rear wheel cylinders.
I still have some finishing details left.
Thanks
Richard

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Author	Topic: trailer brake bleeding
chrisrich	posted 03-06-2004 10:09 PM ET (US) I have a 89 18.5 Outrage sitting on a 2000 tandem Pacific trailer with surge drums brakes. I've just done a replacement of my rear backing plate assemblies,with shoes,cylinders,lines,seals. I can't get my brake master to bleed. I use my trailer ball attached to my receiver tube, and am pumping. I cant get any fluid to come directly out of the master cylinder, or for that matter-the rear cylinders. I got some workout today trying to pump that master. The master feels pretty crappy/sludgy inside. The trailer has been exposed to saltwater only,(of course with rear washouts). I pretty much figure that I need a new master cylinder. Any other opinions? The other info is the master sits in a Atwood tongue carrier. Thanks for yor time, and any help offered. Richard
jimh	posted 03-16-2004 08:29 PM ET (US) I have some experience bleeding brakes on a Pacific trailer--not always when I planned to do it, either. Last time was in a motel parking lot at 7 a.m. in the middle of a 2,500 mile trip. There must be something awry with your master cylinder. Most hydraulic fluid is so low viscosity that it will flow and flow and flow--you can't stop it. It's like plutonium trying to escape from a nuclear weapons laboratory! A colleague of mine (who has seven children and put them all through college) does most of his own auto maintenance, like brake work. He told me the best way to bleed brakes was just to let the fluid flow for a while by gravity. Assuming your master cylinder is above your brake cylinders, that should work. Let us know what you found when you finally fix this problem.
HappyTime	posted 03-19-2004 01:01 PM ET (US) I service my trailer brake and all my 3 4x4 trucks. Here is the the bleeding procedure: If you can find a helper it's much more easier. If not you still can do it yourself, I prefer 1 person work because I can do my own brake anytime w/o relying on onother person. Even my 10 year old son can help. 1.Make sure the bleeding nuts are completed closed (but not tightened) 2.Fill up the resevoir with DOT3 break fluid. 3.Helper: Use a 2ft tube (like the galvanized plumbing tube) slightly pull the emergency release bar about 2/3 , but don't pull too far it will lock (if it is locked you just have to pry the locking pin to release it). Hold the tube in position and do not move. 4. You: slowly open the break nuts until some fluid squid out, notice there is some bubbles that's what you want to get rid of. While the fluid is bleeding out, close the nut but not too tight. 5. Helper: Let go the the release latch (the tube). 6. Helper: Pull the latch 2/3 again. 7. You: Open blake nut again, and observe it the fluid is still bubbles. 8. Go back to 3 to 7 until the brake fluid is solid when you open the nut. You might want to check the reservoir to make sure it's not empty, if it's empty while you bleed you the air will get into the break system and you have to start all over. 9. Repeat the other wheel with the same steps. In other words the protocol is like this: Pull and hold, bleed, let go, pull and hold, bleed, let go. 10. You can feel the break is no longer mushy if no more air is in the break system when you pull the release latch. 11. To double check the brake I raise the wheel and have the person to pull the latch and I spin it to see it if its brake then release to make sure it free or slightly brakes. The trick when you don't have a helper is: I pull the brake latch with the plumbing tube and hold it in place by tying it to the back of my truck with a piece of rope. Basically what is happening is when you pull the latch you compress the master cylinder and it pushes the brake fluid toward the brake caliper, then you open the nuts the fluid oozes out,eventually the bubble inside the system will be rid of.
andygere	posted 03-19-2004 01:16 PM ET (US) It sounds like a bad or plugged master cylinder. In addition to the advice offered already, I use a 1-2 foot section of clear tubing that will fit tightly over the end of the bleeder nipple. When bleeding the wheel cylinder, I make sure the end of that tubing is submerged in a few inches of brake fluid in a clean container. This prevents any air from being drawn back into the system if the bleeder valve is not closed in time. It also prevents you from polluting your driveway, yard and trailer with brake fluid.
jimh	posted 03-19-2004 05:43 PM ET (US) I just use a $5 brake bleeder kit that includes three sizes of rubber boots to fit over the bleeder, a length of clear plastic hose, and a small reservoir to collect the brake fluid that provides a vent and also keeps the fluid inlet submerged in the brake fluid. You can get these kits at most auto part stores. I remove the drawbar from the hitch on the GMC Suburban, and snap the hitch ball into the trailer hitch. My assistant operates the surge brake coupler using the hitch drawbar as a lever. The assistant adds fluid to the brake cylinder reservoir to keep it full as the brakes are bled. I crawl under the trailer with the proper closed-end 6-point wrench to loosen the bleeder. If you use an open end wrench or a 12-point closed end wrench you can easily round off the bleeder.
BW23	posted 03-19-2004 06:48 PM ET (US) http://www.championtrailers.com/ Good info in their tech assistance.
chrisrich	posted 03-25-2004 10:22 PM ET (US) The fix was a new brake master. I now have a good brake fluid flush out of the rear wheel cylinders. I still have some finishing details left. Thanks Richard