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Author Topic:   Sandless primer

mustang7nh posted 03-12-2004 01:10 PM ET (US)
Does Sandless primer add a rough finish to the bottom, sort of like you painted over 120 grit sand paper?
jimh posted 03-12-2004 01:21 PM ET (US)
Is "Sandless primer" a brand name?
BillB posted 03-12-2004 01:48 PM ET (US)
"Sandless Primer" is a description rather than a Brand name.
I have used Petitt's 6999 sandless primer with good results.
The resulting surface is not particularily rough (tho not a burnished racing finish by any means).
You do have to be careful regarding which paints are compatible. As I recall vinyl bottom paint is not.
All in all I prefer to spend the time preping a "virgin" bottom by sanding.
Bill
mustang7nh posted 03-12-2004 02:21 PM ET (US)
I had my bottom done, they used the sandless primer. I was just wondering because the bottom is not perfectly smooth. It could be just the roller or something they painted with. I didn't know if the product had a grit to it that bonded to a bare hull, and hence allowed the bottom paint to adhere.
andygere posted 03-12-2004 03:51 PM ET (US)
I used Interlux Bondkote sandless primer on my Montauk and on my Outrage. It rolls on pretty smooth, but the ablative paint on top of it (I used Micron with Biolux) is not as smooth. The Bondkote goes on extremely thin, but provides a lot of coverage with not a lot of paint. The Bondkote had a bright silver color.
A side note on sandless primers: The first time I used this system on my Montauk, the results were great, with 3 years on the bottom job and no more than a touch up of the waterlines needed after year 2. On my Outrage, I had what looked like a great result until I hauled the boat for the first time, about 6 months after the paint was applied. Within a week of hauling, the ablative bottom paint began to shrink and peel, leaving the Bondkote primer still attached to the hull. Numerous phone calls to Interlux yielded no information until I finally spoke the local rep for my area. He told me there had been a recall on Bondkote, and the paint should not have been on the shelves when I purchased it. Apparently there was a change in solvent suppliers, and the solvent in my paint flashed to quickly, preventing a strong chemical bond from forming between the primer and the top coat. All looked good while the paint was in the water (even scrubbing didn't remove it), but as soon as it dried out when the boat was hauled, a tiny amount of shrinkage failed the bond. In the end, the local rep took care of my problem and had a good boatyard strip and reapply my bottom job, paid for in product from the rep, not by a check from Interlux. Interlux closed the book on any warranty claims a few months after the recall and would refused to make good on my problem. Before buying and using any sandless primer, I would contact the manufacturer and inquire about any recalls, bad lots, etc.
Interlux has since reintroduced a sandless system under a different name, and has devised a "thumbprint test" to help you determine if a good bond will develop between the primer and the topcoat. Under any circumstances, follow the time tables on the label religiously (I did) even if this means priming and topcoating in sections instead of priming the whole hull then topcoating. I had a helper to make sure I met the time requirements to get a good bond, but since the product I had was defective it didn't matter. Also, use the recomended solvent and change rags frequently. If there is any grease or wax on the hull, the primer won't stick and will immediately fish-eye.
mustang7nh posted 03-15-2004 07:43 AM ET (US)
I think you answered my question. My paint has bonded fine. But as your experience reveals, the ablative (I used Petite Horizon) is not smooth. Thanks for the info.

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Author	Topic: Sandless primer
mustang7nh	posted 03-12-2004 01:10 PM ET (US) Does Sandless primer add a rough finish to the bottom, sort of like you painted over 120 grit sand paper?
jimh	posted 03-12-2004 01:21 PM ET (US) Is "Sandless primer" a brand name?
BillB	posted 03-12-2004 01:48 PM ET (US) "Sandless Primer" is a description rather than a Brand name. I have used Petitt's 6999 sandless primer with good results. The resulting surface is not particularily rough (tho not a burnished racing finish by any means). You do have to be careful regarding which paints are compatible. As I recall vinyl bottom paint is not. All in all I prefer to spend the time preping a "virgin" bottom by sanding. Bill
mustang7nh	posted 03-12-2004 02:21 PM ET (US) I had my bottom done, they used the sandless primer. I was just wondering because the bottom is not perfectly smooth. It could be just the roller or something they painted with. I didn't know if the product had a grit to it that bonded to a bare hull, and hence allowed the bottom paint to adhere.
andygere	posted 03-12-2004 03:51 PM ET (US) I used Interlux Bondkote sandless primer on my Montauk and on my Outrage. It rolls on pretty smooth, but the ablative paint on top of it (I used Micron with Biolux) is not as smooth. The Bondkote goes on extremely thin, but provides a lot of coverage with not a lot of paint. The Bondkote had a bright silver color. A side note on sandless primers: The first time I used this system on my Montauk, the results were great, with 3 years on the bottom job and no more than a touch up of the waterlines needed after year 2. On my Outrage, I had what looked like a great result until I hauled the boat for the first time, about 6 months after the paint was applied. Within a week of hauling, the ablative bottom paint began to shrink and peel, leaving the Bondkote primer still attached to the hull. Numerous phone calls to Interlux yielded no information until I finally spoke the local rep for my area. He told me there had been a recall on Bondkote, and the paint should not have been on the shelves when I purchased it. Apparently there was a change in solvent suppliers, and the solvent in my paint flashed to quickly, preventing a strong chemical bond from forming between the primer and the top coat. All looked good while the paint was in the water (even scrubbing didn't remove it), but as soon as it dried out when the boat was hauled, a tiny amount of shrinkage failed the bond. In the end, the local rep took care of my problem and had a good boatyard strip and reapply my bottom job, paid for in product from the rep, not by a check from Interlux. Interlux closed the book on any warranty claims a few months after the recall and would refused to make good on my problem. Before buying and using any sandless primer, I would contact the manufacturer and inquire about any recalls, bad lots, etc. Interlux has since reintroduced a sandless system under a different name, and has devised a "thumbprint test" to help you determine if a good bond will develop between the primer and the topcoat. Under any circumstances, follow the time tables on the label religiously (I did) even if this means priming and topcoating in sections instead of priming the whole hull then topcoating. I had a helper to make sure I met the time requirements to get a good bond, but since the product I had was defective it didn't matter. Also, use the recomended solvent and change rags frequently. If there is any grease or wax on the hull, the primer won't stick and will immediately fish-eye.
mustang7nh	posted 03-15-2004 07:43 AM ET (US) I think you answered my question. My paint has bonded fine. But as your experience reveals, the ablative (I used Petite Horizon) is not smooth. Thanks for the info.