Starting motor for the first time in 8 years.

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Author Topic:   Starting motor for the first time in 8 years.

ryanwhaler posted 03-15-2004 06:47 PM ET (US)
Its about time I start the motor on my new Montauk. It was winterized a Johnson dealer 8 years ago before it was parked, I assume it was fogged, new lower gear oil and I can tell the plugs where replaced at that time.
The motor is a 1982 70hp Johnson, I'm going to start it on muffs, I'm chargeing the battery now.
I've showered every moveing part I could find with WD40.
Is their anything that I should know before chanking her up?
macfam posted 03-15-2004 07:07 PM ET (US)
Ryan,
It might be a good idea to remove those plugs, and put some fogging oil into those plug holes. Then, you will have some lubrication for those rings/cylinder walls etc. Whatever was fogged 8 years ago, ain't there no more. Put the plugs back in, use "fresh" gasoline with some stabil, and turn that water on...and fire her up.
Wait a minute.....it's supposed to snow....what's the hurry....just kidding. You must be dying to breathe some blue smoke after this winter.
JayR posted 03-15-2004 07:08 PM ET (US)
Grab the flywheel and make sure she turns easily before putting the starter to her.
At least that way, you know you are not going to cause any damage.
I have no clue what the best procedure is, but I would certainly pull the spark plugs and spray some oil in each cylinder, to give a little extra lubrication just in case.
WHALER27CC posted 03-15-2004 07:12 PM ET (US)
Yea.....Put on a heavy winter jacket, bring your snow shovel, and be prepared to re-winterize it, isnt it supposed to snow about 4" tonight?
Well, just make sure that it streams water out the telltale hole , because most likely that water pump/impeller is dry and possibly cracked after sitting for 8 years. Watch it carefully!!!
Good luck.
Fishin Rod posted 03-15-2004 07:17 PM ET (US)
A new water pump would be a good idea. And after 8 years my guess is the carbs will need rebuilding.
bkovak posted 03-15-2004 08:04 PM ET (US)
Ryan,
Also, check all the fuel lines. My Dad gave me his old '76 Johnson 35 a few years ago after it sat in his basement for 10 years! I pulled the plugs, fogged the cylinders and carbs and let it sit for a few hours. Then I turned it over with fresh gas and it started right up. First time out with it, I found fuel dripping under the cowl. Had to replace all the internal fuel lines, the water pump and rebuild the carbs but, it's still running strong. Good luck! Brian
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-15-2004 08:32 PM ET (US)
Changing the water pump is a must, as the fingers on the empellor are set by now & have lost all elasticity.
You can't tell anything about the water pump while on the hose or muffs, because the water pressure from the house or where ever will give you a beautiful tell tail.
Even without a water pump & on the muffs, you will get a tell tail that looks like you have a brand new pump.
Chances are, you may need to go through the carbs.
I would also run a can of "Engine tuner" through her to clean out the carbon in the cylinders, & behind the rings.
Sal
jimh posted 03-15-2004 08:40 PM ET (US)
WD-40 is not a lubricant.
greyg8r posted 03-15-2004 08:57 PM ET (US)
Jim,
WD-40 is not a lubricant???
Richard
drumbeater posted 03-15-2004 09:38 PM ET (US)
Definately rebuild the carbs before any heavy use. You can start the engine, but if there is any sludge loosened up by the fresh gas, it will clog up the jets in one or more of the carbeurators. If the jet clogs, it will starve the cylinders of the correct oil/gas mixture and the cylinder/piston will not get lubricated. The piston will seize and the powerhead will be toast.
I know this obviously because it happened to me on a 115 Evinrude that I let sit for several years, and then took it out on the lake. Ran great for about 10 minutes then locked up.
DB
jimh posted 03-15-2004 10:50 PM ET (US)
WD-40 is primarily designed to displace water, as in
WD = WATER DISPLACEMENT
It is also a pretty good solvent. You can remove a lot of stuff with WD-40 the solvent. I tried about ten things to get some old adhesive off of the hull, and finally tried WD-40. Off came the gunk.
See:
http://www.wd40.com/Brands/wd40_faqs.html
I used to think it had kerosene in it, but they claim no kerosene in there.
OK, it has an oil base, but I wouldn't call it a lubricant as its primary function.
ryanwhaler posted 03-15-2004 11:12 PM ET (US)
Wow, that's for all the replies.
I've been told me a few people that I should pull the plugs, put fogging spray in their. I'm going to spray it the night before, tilt the motor up all the way and let it soak in their.
Sal,
Info about the water pump working great with the muffs on it, I didn''t even thing of that, but it makes sense that it would work like a charm because of all the water pressure being forced in their. The very first thing I did was take the emergence starter rope out of its bag from under the cowling and pull the flywheel, it is free
I've been spaying everything with WD40 since I was like five, everything from bikes to lawn mowers and now boats. Maybe I've been displacing water all this time but it never did any of my stuff any harm, so I'm gonna keep on sprayen ;-)
I'm not sure about this snow now, I've got the day off the school Wednesday, I wanted to do it then but now they are calling for snow, if its to cold I'll wait for the weekend, I wish I did it last week when we had all those 45 degree days.
I've been messing around with the little things on the boat, I'm at the point where I have to start buying stuff for it, like a cooler with backrests and new RPS cushion, I've decided not to spend any money on it until I get the motor running and use it a few times, I don't want to drop a bunch on money into the boat right away and then have the motor crap its pants with 2ed trip, the Johnny is the main phonics for now.
Thanks again.
Leener posted 03-15-2004 11:53 PM ET (US)
Ryan,
My brother inherited my fathers old starcraft 15' with a 1977 70HP Johnson. It had been stored for about ten years prior. No fogging, no stabil, no special layup prior to its ten year nap. He fired it right up. Soon ( 5 minutes ) found out it was running on two cylinders. He shut her down and pulled the carbs and found two of the three had significant globs of slime in them. Looked like 50% mix of gas & Crisco... He cleaned them up and now she runs like a bear! Those 70s are great motors. He has been running strong for about 5 years since the carb rebuild with no problems. Hope yours goes as well.
Good luck,
Tom (Leener)
hooter posted 03-16-2004 11:19 AM ET (US)
One more time, with EMPHasis: while the weather outside is frightful, take those carbs apart and clean them thoroughly, replacin' all the rubbah and the gaskets on the way out of the re-build, beFORE you ever run that thing. That'll keep all the goop that undoubtedly lives in their now in the old coffee can and out of your carb jets and cylinders, ok? Ah know patience is friggin' hard at your age, but you'll remember Ah said this if you ignore ever'one here that's told you to rebuild those carbs. Replacing all the rubbah fuel lines and water hoses would be another good idea before spring puts you on the water. Hope you have fun with that old motor.
Wayneman posted 03-16-2004 06:12 PM ET (US)
Man, i think it should have a paintjob too...
Plotman posted 03-16-2004 07:00 PM ET (US)
DO NOT start that motor without replacing the impeller. DON'T do it.
ryanwhaler posted 03-16-2004 08:01 PM ET (US)
Plotman,
Why now?
Its going to be on muffs, and it was replaced before it was parked. I'm not going to run the boat without replaceing it, but I can start the motor.
Plotman posted 03-16-2004 08:12 PM ET (US)
Maybe you should ask yourself WHY should I do it. I know that you are eager to see if you can get the motor running - I would be too.
That impeller is 10 years old. The rubber is likely brittle after sitting for so long. Who knows if it is going to hold together or not. Who knows if a chunk of that old rubber is going to break off and maybe get stuck somewhere inside that engine and prevent water from getting where it is needed. Maybe not damage anything now, but perhaps later when you run it in the water and get it good and hot.
Bottom line, It needs to be replaced. Why not do it BEFORE you start up the motor.
Wouldn't you feel really, really stupid if you damaged the motor by running it before changing it.
David
Perry posted 03-17-2004 12:32 AM ET (US)
Plotman has a good point. I have seen impellers pulled from motors that had been sitting for years. They were so brittle that they literally broke up in your hand after removal. It doesn't take too long and won't cost much to replace. Might as well do it sooner than later.
BugsyG posted 03-17-2004 06:50 PM ET (US)
Ryan,
Personally, if the engine hasn't been started in 8 years, I would take it to someone to professionally work the engine over before you mess with it.
If it has old gas in it, shes most likely not going to start. Crank over, but not start.
JAZZ
Buckda posted 03-17-2004 07:07 PM ET (US)
Good advice from everybody Ryan.
An ounce of prevention....
It's a benefits to risk evaluation that only you can make...but think of the benefits of starting it without rebuilding carbs/changing impeller.
Benefits
1. You will know the engine runs.
Total benefit: Knowing the engine runs
Risks
1. You may starve a cylinder for oil and cause powerhead damamge
2. You may starve the powerhead for cooling water and cause powerhead damage
Total risk: VERY expensive repair / motor replacement
Risk Level: High - a good likelihood and possibility of motor damage, however it is not guaranteed.
Costs associated with risk: $2,000 or more
Now let's look at the benefits to risks for waiting and doing some preventative maintenance:
Benefits:
1. Peace of mind - you'll be confident the engine is in working order
2. Full understanding/knowledge of mechanical condition of motor and potential problems for the future.
3. Protection through warranty for work performed by mechanic in case of engine failure due to parts inspected
4. Confidence gained in use of boat/motor combination knowing motor is in good mechanical and working condition
Risks:
1. Likely charge for Water pump/impeller replacement: $150 (Can be reduced if you do it yourself or with a mechanically inclined friend...it's rather straightforward)
2. Rebuilt carbs cost: maybe another $100 (again, can be reduced if your do this yourself or with friends).
Relative Risk level: Low - a certified mechanic will stand behind his work and you'll be confident that the motor is ready to roll when you get it back.
Costs associated with risk: less than $300
It is your decision. I am NOT a risk averse person, but having just replaced a powerhead on my motor, you can be certain that I'd spend 300 bucks to save the $2,000 rebuild every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Just my thoughts.
Dave
home Aside posted 03-19-2004 03:25 PM ET (US)
Ryan,
at all costs rebuild / replace the water pump....I took my 82 Montauk and 82 Evinrude 90hp in last summer to be checked up after having stored inside for a year without use. (The Motor was completely winterized prior to being stored) I did this just to be sure. I came to find out that one of the fingers on the impeller in the water pump had broken off and had bound up the water pump so it was not circulating (turning if you will) at all. Prior to that I had always had the strong steady Pee when using the motor with no indication of any problems. At that point I know that the water pump was at least 11 years old, because I had purchsed this 1982 in 1992. According to the Evinrude Dealer Mechanic, the rubber fingers of the waterpump impeller had dry rotted, and subsequently broken off binding up the pump. I'd also follow the advice reguarding the Carbs, etc, Don't take a chance on having to spend more money later on for more major repairs, Good luck
Pat
ryanwhaler posted 03-19-2004 07:40 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the replys.
I'm not paying a mechanic to do anything, I'm doing it myself.
I already when threw the carbs, they where OK, I think it could have got away without out cleaning them but I'm glad I did.
I'm going to replace the water impeller, I ordered the parts, I'll have them any day now the motor on my Sport-11 needs an impellor too so I can do them both.
I'm not that worred about the motor, it was put away by a Johnson mechanic, it looks like he did everything by the book, all the gas has been drained, too.
The oil in the lower unit was changed before it was parked too, I don't think the motor has even been run since it was done. Should I leave it the way it is or change it?

Plotman posted 03-19-2004 08:53 PM ET (US)
Change it. It's 10 year old oil.
David
hooter posted 03-22-2004 06:50 PM ET (US)
Although Ah agree with Plotman that you should change that old erl, it gives one pause when you consider that erl was already 100 million years old when the last owner put it into the lower unit less than a meer decade ago. Makes you think, don't it:-!
Bigshot posted 03-24-2004 01:41 PM ET (US)
If lower unit oil is clean...leave it for now. Run it a few times and then change it to see if seals are holding.
JayR posted 03-24-2004 04:20 PM ET (US)
Bigshot makes a very good point.

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Author	Topic: Starting motor for the first time in 8 years.
ryanwhaler	posted 03-15-2004 06:47 PM ET (US) Its about time I start the motor on my new Montauk. It was winterized a Johnson dealer 8 years ago before it was parked, I assume it was fogged, new lower gear oil and I can tell the plugs where replaced at that time. The motor is a 1982 70hp Johnson, I'm going to start it on muffs, I'm chargeing the battery now. I've showered every moveing part I could find with WD40. Is their anything that I should know before chanking her up?
macfam	posted 03-15-2004 07:07 PM ET (US) Ryan, It might be a good idea to remove those plugs, and put some fogging oil into those plug holes. Then, you will have some lubrication for those rings/cylinder walls etc. Whatever was fogged 8 years ago, ain't there no more. Put the plugs back in, use "fresh" gasoline with some stabil, and turn that water on...and fire her up. Wait a minute.....it's supposed to snow....what's the hurry....just kidding. You must be dying to breathe some blue smoke after this winter.
JayR	posted 03-15-2004 07:08 PM ET (US) Grab the flywheel and make sure she turns easily before putting the starter to her. At least that way, you know you are not going to cause any damage. I have no clue what the best procedure is, but I would certainly pull the spark plugs and spray some oil in each cylinder, to give a little extra lubrication just in case.
WHALER27CC	posted 03-15-2004 07:12 PM ET (US) Yea.....Put on a heavy winter jacket, bring your snow shovel, and be prepared to re-winterize it, isnt it supposed to snow about 4" tonight? Well, just make sure that it streams water out the telltale hole , because most likely that water pump/impeller is dry and possibly cracked after sitting for 8 years. Watch it carefully!!! Good luck.
Fishin Rod	posted 03-15-2004 07:17 PM ET (US) A new water pump would be a good idea. And after 8 years my guess is the carbs will need rebuilding.
bkovak	posted 03-15-2004 08:04 PM ET (US) Ryan, Also, check all the fuel lines. My Dad gave me his old '76 Johnson 35 a few years ago after it sat in his basement for 10 years! I pulled the plugs, fogged the cylinders and carbs and let it sit for a few hours. Then I turned it over with fresh gas and it started right up. First time out with it, I found fuel dripping under the cowl. Had to replace all the internal fuel lines, the water pump and rebuild the carbs but, it's still running strong. Good luck! Brian
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-15-2004 08:32 PM ET (US) Changing the water pump is a must, as the fingers on the empellor are set by now & have lost all elasticity. You can't tell anything about the water pump while on the hose or muffs, because the water pressure from the house or where ever will give you a beautiful tell tail. Even without a water pump & on the muffs, you will get a tell tail that looks like you have a brand new pump. Chances are, you may need to go through the carbs. I would also run a can of "Engine tuner" through her to clean out the carbon in the cylinders, & behind the rings. Sal
jimh	posted 03-15-2004 08:40 PM ET (US) WD-40 is not a lubricant.
greyg8r	posted 03-15-2004 08:57 PM ET (US) Jim, WD-40 is not a lubricant??? Richard
drumbeater	posted 03-15-2004 09:38 PM ET (US) Definately rebuild the carbs before any heavy use. You can start the engine, but if there is any sludge loosened up by the fresh gas, it will clog up the jets in one or more of the carbeurators. If the jet clogs, it will starve the cylinders of the correct oil/gas mixture and the cylinder/piston will not get lubricated. The piston will seize and the powerhead will be toast. I know this obviously because it happened to me on a 115 Evinrude that I let sit for several years, and then took it out on the lake. Ran great for about 10 minutes then locked up. DB
jimh	posted 03-15-2004 10:50 PM ET (US) WD-40 is primarily designed to displace water, as in WD = WATER DISPLACEMENT It is also a pretty good solvent. You can remove a lot of stuff with WD-40 the solvent. I tried about ten things to get some old adhesive off of the hull, and finally tried WD-40. Off came the gunk. See: http://www.wd40.com/Brands/wd40_faqs.html I used to think it had kerosene in it, but they claim no kerosene in there. OK, it has an oil base, but I wouldn't call it a lubricant as its primary function.
ryanwhaler	posted 03-15-2004 11:12 PM ET (US) Wow, that's for all the replies. I've been told me a few people that I should pull the plugs, put fogging spray in their. I'm going to spray it the night before, tilt the motor up all the way and let it soak in their. Sal, Info about the water pump working great with the muffs on it, I didn''t even thing of that, but it makes sense that it would work like a charm because of all the water pressure being forced in their. The very first thing I did was take the emergence starter rope out of its bag from under the cowling and pull the flywheel, it is free I've been spaying everything with WD40 since I was like five, everything from bikes to lawn mowers and now boats. Maybe I've been displacing water all this time but it never did any of my stuff any harm, so I'm gonna keep on sprayen ;-) I'm not sure about this snow now, I've got the day off the school Wednesday, I wanted to do it then but now they are calling for snow, if its to cold I'll wait for the weekend, I wish I did it last week when we had all those 45 degree days. I've been messing around with the little things on the boat, I'm at the point where I have to start buying stuff for it, like a cooler with backrests and new RPS cushion, I've decided not to spend any money on it until I get the motor running and use it a few times, I don't want to drop a bunch on money into the boat right away and then have the motor crap its pants with 2ed trip, the Johnny is the main phonics for now. Thanks again.
Leener	posted 03-15-2004 11:53 PM ET (US) Ryan, My brother inherited my fathers old starcraft 15' with a 1977 70HP Johnson. It had been stored for about ten years prior. No fogging, no stabil, no special layup prior to its ten year nap. He fired it right up. Soon ( 5 minutes ) found out it was running on two cylinders. He shut her down and pulled the carbs and found two of the three had significant globs of slime in them. Looked like 50% mix of gas & Crisco... He cleaned them up and now she runs like a bear! Those 70s are great motors. He has been running strong for about 5 years since the carb rebuild with no problems. Hope yours goes as well. Good luck, Tom (Leener)
hooter	posted 03-16-2004 11:19 AM ET (US) One more time, with EMPHasis: while the weather outside is frightful, take those carbs apart and clean them thoroughly, replacin' all the rubbah and the gaskets on the way out of the re-build, beFORE you ever run that thing. That'll keep all the goop that undoubtedly lives in their now in the old coffee can and out of your carb jets and cylinders, ok? Ah know patience is friggin' hard at your age, but you'll remember Ah said this if you ignore ever'one here that's told you to rebuild those carbs. Replacing all the rubbah fuel lines and water hoses would be another good idea before spring puts you on the water. Hope you have fun with that old motor.
Wayneman	posted 03-16-2004 06:12 PM ET (US) Man, i think it should have a paintjob too...
Plotman	posted 03-16-2004 07:00 PM ET (US) DO NOT start that motor without replacing the impeller. DON'T do it.
ryanwhaler	posted 03-16-2004 08:01 PM ET (US) Plotman, Why now? Its going to be on muffs, and it was replaced before it was parked. I'm not going to run the boat without replaceing it, but I can start the motor.
Plotman	posted 03-16-2004 08:12 PM ET (US) Maybe you should ask yourself WHY should I do it. I know that you are eager to see if you can get the motor running - I would be too. That impeller is 10 years old. The rubber is likely brittle after sitting for so long. Who knows if it is going to hold together or not. Who knows if a chunk of that old rubber is going to break off and maybe get stuck somewhere inside that engine and prevent water from getting where it is needed. Maybe not damage anything now, but perhaps later when you run it in the water and get it good and hot. Bottom line, It needs to be replaced. Why not do it BEFORE you start up the motor. Wouldn't you feel really, really stupid if you damaged the motor by running it before changing it. David
Perry	posted 03-17-2004 12:32 AM ET (US) Plotman has a good point. I have seen impellers pulled from motors that had been sitting for years. They were so brittle that they literally broke up in your hand after removal. It doesn't take too long and won't cost much to replace. Might as well do it sooner than later.
BugsyG	posted 03-17-2004 06:50 PM ET (US) Ryan, Personally, if the engine hasn't been started in 8 years, I would take it to someone to professionally work the engine over before you mess with it. If it has old gas in it, shes most likely not going to start. Crank over, but not start. JAZZ
Buckda	posted 03-17-2004 07:07 PM ET (US) Good advice from everybody Ryan. An ounce of prevention.... It's a benefits to risk evaluation that only you can make...but think of the benefits of starting it without rebuilding carbs/changing impeller. Benefits 1. You will know the engine runs. Total benefit: Knowing the engine runs Risks 1. You may starve a cylinder for oil and cause powerhead damamge 2. You may starve the powerhead for cooling water and cause powerhead damage Total risk: VERY expensive repair / motor replacement Risk Level: High - a good likelihood and possibility of motor damage, however it is not guaranteed. Costs associated with risk: $2,000 or more Now let's look at the benefits to risks for waiting and doing some preventative maintenance: Benefits: 1. Peace of mind - you'll be confident the engine is in working order 2. Full understanding/knowledge of mechanical condition of motor and potential problems for the future. 3. Protection through warranty for work performed by mechanic in case of engine failure due to parts inspected 4. Confidence gained in use of boat/motor combination knowing motor is in good mechanical and working condition Risks: 1. Likely charge for Water pump/impeller replacement: $150 (Can be reduced if you do it yourself or with a mechanically inclined friend...it's rather straightforward) 2. Rebuilt carbs cost: maybe another $100 (again, can be reduced if your do this yourself or with friends). Relative Risk level: Low - a certified mechanic will stand behind his work and you'll be confident that the motor is ready to roll when you get it back. Costs associated with risk: less than $300 It is your decision. I am NOT a risk averse person, but having just replaced a powerhead on my motor, you can be certain that I'd spend 300 bucks to save the $2,000 rebuild every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Just my thoughts. Dave
home Aside	posted 03-19-2004 03:25 PM ET (US) Ryan, at all costs rebuild / replace the water pump....I took my 82 Montauk and 82 Evinrude 90hp in last summer to be checked up after having stored inside for a year without use. (The Motor was completely winterized prior to being stored) I did this just to be sure. I came to find out that one of the fingers on the impeller in the water pump had broken off and had bound up the water pump so it was not circulating (turning if you will) at all. Prior to that I had always had the strong steady Pee when using the motor with no indication of any problems. At that point I know that the water pump was at least 11 years old, because I had purchsed this 1982 in 1992. According to the Evinrude Dealer Mechanic, the rubber fingers of the waterpump impeller had dry rotted, and subsequently broken off binding up the pump. I'd also follow the advice reguarding the Carbs, etc, Don't take a chance on having to spend more money later on for more major repairs, Good luck Pat
ryanwhaler	posted 03-19-2004 07:40 PM ET (US) Thanks for the replys. I'm not paying a mechanic to do anything, I'm doing it myself. I already when threw the carbs, they where OK, I think it could have got away without out cleaning them but I'm glad I did. I'm going to replace the water impeller, I ordered the parts, I'll have them any day now the motor on my Sport-11 needs an impellor too so I can do them both. I'm not that worred about the motor, it was put away by a Johnson mechanic, it looks like he did everything by the book, all the gas has been drained, too. The oil in the lower unit was changed before it was parked too, I don't think the motor has even been run since it was done. Should I leave it the way it is or change it?
Plotman	posted 03-19-2004 08:53 PM ET (US) Change it. It's 10 year old oil. David
hooter	posted 03-22-2004 06:50 PM ET (US) Although Ah agree with Plotman that you should change that old erl, it gives one pause when you consider that erl was already 100 million years old when the last owner put it into the lower unit less than a meer decade ago. Makes you think, don't it:-!
Bigshot	posted 03-24-2004 01:41 PM ET (US) If lower unit oil is clean...leave it for now. Run it a few times and then change it to see if seals are holding.
JayR	posted 03-24-2004 04:20 PM ET (US) Bigshot makes a very good point.