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Author Topic:   Water in 1985 OUTRAGE 18 Hull and Transom

k2163 posted 03-16-2004 12:21 PM ET (US)
I seem to have water in the hull [of my 1985 OUTRAGE 18] Not sure where it's coming from.
Any ideas?

Tom W Clark posted 03-16-2004 09:33 PM ET (US)
Start reading:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001747.html
diamondjj posted 03-17-2004 11:47 AM ET (US)
k2163,
You should check the drain tubes for deterioration, that drain plug that was installed by the previous owner at the lower part of the transom, the engine bolts going through the transom, specifically the ones that you stated were under water. Inspect the outside of the hull for any holes, cracks. You might also want to look for any signs of a repair to the outside of the hull that may not have been done properly. Use the search engine available here on this wonderful site and you should get some good information on this.
bkovak posted 03-17-2004 04:05 PM ET (US)
RJM,
Forget about drilling holes, just put it in the oven and bake it out like Tom Clark did with that old 13 whaler core plug... Brian
jimh posted 03-17-2004 09:46 PM ET (US)
The FAQ on this topic
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q3
provides some insight.
k2163 posted 03-18-2004 12:40 PM ET (US)
I've read the general reference on water in the hull, but is lacks specificity on sources. I'm going to check the motor mounts and the stock drain tubes first. Please tell me if I am wrong, but I believe there are just two. One in the bow storage compartment and one in the stern storage compartment.
How do I check these? I read the reference on how to change them, but not on how to determine if they are leaking. Pehaps I should just change them.
I strongly suspect the motor mounts and will re-seal the bolts this weekend as well.
After that, I'll check the aftermarket hull drain plug, the attached accessories (bait tank pump, fish-finder, and swim step). I'm planning on having the entire boat gel-coated next winter so if it's that it will have to wait.
I don't think it's coming through the deck because I flooded it for an hour and nothing came through.
Thanks for the help and happy boating.
Ken
diamondjj posted 03-18-2004 03:30 PM ET (US)
Ken,
On the outrage 18, you should also have three drain tubes in the aft well going through the transom. Check the condition of the caulking at the floor seams. If the caulking is cracked, missing or separated, you should plan on recaulking the floor seams as well.
k2163 posted 03-18-2004 03:54 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the info Diamond! You have been a big help.
I have two very large aluminum motor mount plates on both sides of the transom. The inside one extends all the way down the splash well and I cannot see any drain holes there. The only drain hole I can see in the aft port storage space. I can follow this drain pipe to the outside of the boat.
Where exactly are the three drain holes you are speaking of and to where to they drain?
Thanks,
Ken

diamondjj posted 03-18-2004 08:28 PM ET (US)
Ken
The drain tubes are at the bottom of the transom and drain the well aft. Those aluminum motor mount plates that you speak of may be covering them and I am suspecting that they may possibly be the cause of the water entering the hull. On my boat, the engine bolts go through the engine brackets, through the transom and are bolted on the inside with no large aluminum plates, just the nuts and washers on the inside. Can you get hold of a digital camera and take some pictures of the inside and outside of the transom and e-mail them to me ? I have never seen a setup like this. Maybe others on this board have.
jimh posted 03-18-2004 11:06 PM ET (US)
Ken, are you boating in saltwater or fresh water?
k2163 posted 03-19-2004 01:02 AM ET (US)
Guys
Thanks for all of the input!!!
I'll take some photos this weekend and send them along. Should clear up some of the confusion.
I'm thinking it could be the large mounting plates that are causing the trouble. I could possibly drill through them to expose the holes, or I could remove the inner plate and use washers as you say.
The boat has been in salt water for the past several years with minor fresh water use at the CO River. But who knows the total history of it.
diamondjj posted 03-19-2004 08:16 AM ET (US)
Ken,
I don't know how large those mounting plates are but I am wondering what the condition of the transom is and what it looks like behind those plates specifically on the outside. It seems odd to me that there is that drain plug below the area where the plates are. You might have to remove the engine to remove the plate on the outside for a close inspection.
jasonw posted 03-19-2004 10:34 AM ET (US)
possibily those plates are covering up work that was done or damage by the old owner.
k2163 posted 03-21-2004 11:20 AM ET (US)
Well...
I went to visit her yesterday. Took some photos too. They will answer anyone's questions about the drain plug, the aluminum plates, and at least one source of the water.
I can send the photos or maybe I'll start a blog.
Anyway, this is what I learned after closer inspection.
First, the two large aluminum plates sandwich a piece of wood that has been placed in the center of the transom (got a photo if you are not clear on that). I'm not sure how far down it goes, but the pictures show it to be a little less than a foot long. The large plates cover it completely except for the top edge.
Second, someone thought it was a good idea to attach things to the hull with screws. The following are all so attached on the outside of the hull: swim step, motor plate, bait pump, sonar, speed sensor, water temp sensor, tie-down hooks, and kicker mount.
I unscrewed all of these and found water behind some. All were sealed with silicone. I scaped that off and put a liberal supply of 4200 in it's place as well as on the motor mount bolts that are below the water line.
On the inside deck someone placed a bilge pump and sensor in the transom well. This was necessary because the large aluminum plates cover what I believe to be drain holes.
They were screwed to the bottom of the transom well. I believe this is the greatest source of water in the hull. This spot always has some water in it as the San Diego mist runs off the cover and falls into this spot about 6 months out of the year. Rain water also falls there, but no so often.
I did the 4200 trick with these as well. I also put 5200 around the aluminum plates and on some gel coat cracks near the transom well.
I will take her out next week and see how much water comes out that drain plug when I'm done.
Let me know if you would like to see some pics.
Ken
jimh posted 03-21-2004 11:57 AM ET (US)
[Removed some diversionary material from thread.]
Seeing a transom reinforced with owner-added materials, such as the aluminum plates you have mentioned on your boat, is, to me, a general sign that there is a structural problem with the transom on the boat.
Entrapment of fresh water is much more threatening to the integrity of the wood in the transom. Fresh water will induce rot, while saltwater will generally prevent rot.
When you investigated the holes that were drilled in the bottom of the engine splash well where you mention a sump pump had been installed, I am curious to know if you observed any hollow void beneath these holes. I recently drilled three small holes in the bottom (i.e. deepest) part of the splash well on my Boston Whaler (REVENGE 20), and from the behavior of the drill bit it seemed like there was a hollow void behind the laminate in that area. If that were the case on your boat, it would provide a reservoir for collecting a large volume of water, and you must take great care to seal any holes that penetrate the splash well at this point.
Since the deepest part of the splash well is sure to have water in it almost constantly, it would be a prime suspect for being the point of ingress for water into your hull. Even a small hole can admit a large volume of water over time. I cite the example of a friend whose wood-cored deck was ruined by the water allowed to leak into the wood from a single screw improperly sealed in a navigation lamp fixture.
John O posted 03-21-2004 07:44 PM ET (US)
JimH,
I am not sure if this info is helpful or not. I saw an older Montauk from the Late 1970's or early 1980's and the owner had cut a hole in the front of the splash well above the bildge area. The hole was roughly 6-7 inches in diameter. What interested me was the void that was present. One could insert a hand and reach around the inside of the splash well on either side and touch the inside of the transom wall.
The owner was not present and I did not try to reach in. It did appear to be about 2-3 inches of foam thickness on the inner skin, but a significant void or cavity if you will. If the void did exist and was not hollowed out by the owner than I would guess that several gallons of water could accumulate from an opening such as a missing Wellnut.
I have a 2 Wellnuts on the splash well wall of my 1988 Newtauk. Next month I plan to insert a small diameter of rubber tubingin the holes and try to siphon out any water if present. I will also probe the area with some type of thin flexible material that can absorb any water it encounters.(Some type of flexible swab).

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Author	Topic: Water in 1985 OUTRAGE 18 Hull and Transom
k2163	posted 03-16-2004 12:21 PM ET (US) I seem to have water in the hull [of my 1985 OUTRAGE 18] Not sure where it's coming from. Any ideas?
Tom W Clark	posted 03-16-2004 09:33 PM ET (US) Start reading: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001747.html
diamondjj	posted 03-17-2004 11:47 AM ET (US) k2163, You should check the drain tubes for deterioration, that drain plug that was installed by the previous owner at the lower part of the transom, the engine bolts going through the transom, specifically the ones that you stated were under water. Inspect the outside of the hull for any holes, cracks. You might also want to look for any signs of a repair to the outside of the hull that may not have been done properly. Use the search engine available here on this wonderful site and you should get some good information on this.
bkovak	posted 03-17-2004 04:05 PM ET (US) RJM, Forget about drilling holes, just put it in the oven and bake it out like Tom Clark did with that old 13 whaler core plug... Brian
jimh	posted 03-17-2004 09:46 PM ET (US) The FAQ on this topic http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q3 provides some insight.
k2163	posted 03-18-2004 12:40 PM ET (US) I've read the general reference on water in the hull, but is lacks specificity on sources. I'm going to check the motor mounts and the stock drain tubes first. Please tell me if I am wrong, but I believe there are just two. One in the bow storage compartment and one in the stern storage compartment. How do I check these? I read the reference on how to change them, but not on how to determine if they are leaking. Pehaps I should just change them. I strongly suspect the motor mounts and will re-seal the bolts this weekend as well. After that, I'll check the aftermarket hull drain plug, the attached accessories (bait tank pump, fish-finder, and swim step). I'm planning on having the entire boat gel-coated next winter so if it's that it will have to wait. I don't think it's coming through the deck because I flooded it for an hour and nothing came through. Thanks for the help and happy boating. Ken
diamondjj	posted 03-18-2004 03:30 PM ET (US) Ken, On the outrage 18, you should also have three drain tubes in the aft well going through the transom. Check the condition of the caulking at the floor seams. If the caulking is cracked, missing or separated, you should plan on recaulking the floor seams as well.
k2163	posted 03-18-2004 03:54 PM ET (US) Thanks for the info Diamond! You have been a big help. I have two very large aluminum motor mount plates on both sides of the transom. The inside one extends all the way down the splash well and I cannot see any drain holes there. The only drain hole I can see in the aft port storage space. I can follow this drain pipe to the outside of the boat. Where exactly are the three drain holes you are speaking of and to where to they drain? Thanks, Ken
diamondjj	posted 03-18-2004 08:28 PM ET (US) Ken The drain tubes are at the bottom of the transom and drain the well aft. Those aluminum motor mount plates that you speak of may be covering them and I am suspecting that they may possibly be the cause of the water entering the hull. On my boat, the engine bolts go through the engine brackets, through the transom and are bolted on the inside with no large aluminum plates, just the nuts and washers on the inside. Can you get hold of a digital camera and take some pictures of the inside and outside of the transom and e-mail them to me ? I have never seen a setup like this. Maybe others on this board have.
jimh	posted 03-18-2004 11:06 PM ET (US) Ken, are you boating in saltwater or fresh water?
k2163	posted 03-19-2004 01:02 AM ET (US) Guys Thanks for all of the input!!! I'll take some photos this weekend and send them along. Should clear up some of the confusion. I'm thinking it could be the large mounting plates that are causing the trouble. I could possibly drill through them to expose the holes, or I could remove the inner plate and use washers as you say. The boat has been in salt water for the past several years with minor fresh water use at the CO River. But who knows the total history of it.
diamondjj	posted 03-19-2004 08:16 AM ET (US) Ken, I don't know how large those mounting plates are but I am wondering what the condition of the transom is and what it looks like behind those plates specifically on the outside. It seems odd to me that there is that drain plug below the area where the plates are. You might have to remove the engine to remove the plate on the outside for a close inspection.
jasonw	posted 03-19-2004 10:34 AM ET (US) possibily those plates are covering up work that was done or damage by the old owner.
k2163	posted 03-21-2004 11:20 AM ET (US) Well... I went to visit her yesterday. Took some photos too. They will answer anyone's questions about the drain plug, the aluminum plates, and at least one source of the water. I can send the photos or maybe I'll start a blog. Anyway, this is what I learned after closer inspection. First, the two large aluminum plates sandwich a piece of wood that has been placed in the center of the transom (got a photo if you are not clear on that). I'm not sure how far down it goes, but the pictures show it to be a little less than a foot long. The large plates cover it completely except for the top edge. Second, someone thought it was a good idea to attach things to the hull with screws. The following are all so attached on the outside of the hull: swim step, motor plate, bait pump, sonar, speed sensor, water temp sensor, tie-down hooks, and kicker mount. I unscrewed all of these and found water behind some. All were sealed with silicone. I scaped that off and put a liberal supply of 4200 in it's place as well as on the motor mount bolts that are below the water line. On the inside deck someone placed a bilge pump and sensor in the transom well. This was necessary because the large aluminum plates cover what I believe to be drain holes. They were screwed to the bottom of the transom well. I believe this is the greatest source of water in the hull. This spot always has some water in it as the San Diego mist runs off the cover and falls into this spot about 6 months out of the year. Rain water also falls there, but no so often. I did the 4200 trick with these as well. I also put 5200 around the aluminum plates and on some gel coat cracks near the transom well. I will take her out next week and see how much water comes out that drain plug when I'm done. Let me know if you would like to see some pics. Ken
jimh	posted 03-21-2004 11:57 AM ET (US) [Removed some diversionary material from thread.] Seeing a transom reinforced with owner-added materials, such as the aluminum plates you have mentioned on your boat, is, to me, a general sign that there is a structural problem with the transom on the boat. Entrapment of fresh water is much more threatening to the integrity of the wood in the transom. Fresh water will induce rot, while saltwater will generally prevent rot. When you investigated the holes that were drilled in the bottom of the engine splash well where you mention a sump pump had been installed, I am curious to know if you observed any hollow void beneath these holes. I recently drilled three small holes in the bottom (i.e. deepest) part of the splash well on my Boston Whaler (REVENGE 20), and from the behavior of the drill bit it seemed like there was a hollow void behind the laminate in that area. If that were the case on your boat, it would provide a reservoir for collecting a large volume of water, and you must take great care to seal any holes that penetrate the splash well at this point. Since the deepest part of the splash well is sure to have water in it almost constantly, it would be a prime suspect for being the point of ingress for water into your hull. Even a small hole can admit a large volume of water over time. I cite the example of a friend whose wood-cored deck was ruined by the water allowed to leak into the wood from a single screw improperly sealed in a navigation lamp fixture.
John O	posted 03-21-2004 07:44 PM ET (US) JimH, I am not sure if this info is helpful or not. I saw an older Montauk from the Late 1970's or early 1980's and the owner had cut a hole in the front of the splash well above the bildge area. The hole was roughly 6-7 inches in diameter. What interested me was the void that was present. One could insert a hand and reach around the inside of the splash well on either side and touch the inside of the transom wall. The owner was not present and I did not try to reach in. It did appear to be about 2-3 inches of foam thickness on the inner skin, but a significant void or cavity if you will. If the void did exist and was not hollowed out by the owner than I would guess that several gallons of water could accumulate from an opening such as a missing Wellnut. I have a 2 Wellnuts on the splash well wall of my 1988 Newtauk. Next month I plan to insert a small diameter of rubber tubingin the holes and try to siphon out any water if present. I will also probe the area with some type of thin flexible material that can absorb any water it encounters.(Some type of flexible swab).