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Author Topic:   89 Evinrude giving me an ulcer

Pierce posted 08-01-2008 01:30 PM ET (US)
Ok, first I know Jim, you told me so. Anyway I bought an 89 Evinrude 70 VRO a few months back with the knowledge that it at least needed a carb rebuild. It went directly to the shop after I got it mounted on the 15ss. So here ia what has been done and then what it is still doing. Done)- The carbs have been rebuilt
New cold start fuel selenoid(choke)
New fuel filter
Fresh gas,and pumped out old gas in the fuel hose
New plugs
Brand new VRO tank assembly
Brand new reeds. And associated gaskets.Did them myself.
Compression is good at 120# give or take 2# on all 3 cylinders.
New thermostat
Now for what it is doing.
It would be hard to start. I guess they all probably are to some extent. Once it running, I could get it up on plane all the way to 5500 rpm. Then over a time span of around 15 to 20 minutes, it would start to not run so well at slower speeds(off plane). It seemed to "hunt/surge" at around 1500-1700 in gear. If I pushed the throttle up a little it would suddenly start to take off and I would have to pull back on the throttle to keep from going faster than I wanted to. Then it simply would not idle. When I would put it in idle, out of gear, heck or even in, it would just start to slow down and then die. And eventually I couldn't even get it started again. Thank God for my so far trusty Suzuki 6hp kicker I bought last year. It didn't matter if I pushed in the key while trying or not. I do hear the fuel solenoid click when I push in the key.
I'm starting to think I am having an electrical problem and not a fuel problem. This outboard, in appearance and from what the previous owner tells me, has very low hours and the majority of it's life has been spent on lakes. There is little to no corrosion on the outside of the engine. Yesterday I bought an inline spark tester to see if I'm getting juice to the plugs. It does light up, but I'm not sure if I am looking at a good amount of juice going to the plugs or a weak amount.
My thoughts are that my timming is off, weak spark, bad power pack. It's as though a component is getiing hot over time and then not working so well. Ofcourse what ever it is, now it won't work at all. HELP!!! My boating season SUCKS!!!
Blackduck posted 08-01-2008 02:13 PM ET (US)
Still sounds like a fuel issue to me. I would check with the person who rebuilt the carbs before going any further.
Tohsgib posted 08-01-2008 02:18 PM ET (US)
Ditto...they need to synch & link them or your idle etc will be crap. Sounds like at 15-1700 she is transitioning between the idle circuits and the high speed jets and it is not setup correctly. To S&L it needs to be in the water usually to get it right.
Pierce posted 08-01-2008 02:50 PM ET (US)
I can't disagree with that. I can't stomach the 98$ an hour though. I will try. I'm sure however the mechanic is sick of seeing me. The shop is only 10 minutes away. I have visited them numerous times. Yes I can take it to another shop that is as close buy. And I may do just that. Also I didn't mention that in the past I could have the motor idling nicely on the trailer only have these issues once I got it in the water. So yes, perhaps the sinc&link is wrong. Thanks!
JMARTIN posted 08-01-2008 08:41 PM ET (US)
Pierce, Valley RV & Marine has an mechanic who really seems to know these older OMC's. He is very familiar with a "link & sync" for the carbs and the VRO unit. Did you replace the VRO pump?
The shop that rebuilt the carbs, man, they must of synchronized them. Have you asked?
If it starts like mine, try this:
Do not advance any throttle when you try to start her. Just make sure you are pumped up and crank away. Poke the choke if nothing happens. When she fires, use the choke to keep her going if you have to. Mine has an automatic choke doo-hickey that advances the throttle. It reminds me of my old 350 Chev PU. I can idle quite aways away from the dock before it kicks down. John

John OSr posted 08-02-2008 01:06 PM ET (US)
Both my 1989 Johnson 140VRO's needed the same parts for similar problems not fuel or Carbs but look like the same symtoms. Needed Timer Base AY and Kit AYCD4AL67PP electronic modules. First one went then the other motor had similar problems one week apart?? Same parts fixed both
Parts Diagram here
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/1989/J140CXCEC%201989/IGNITION%20SYSTEM%20&%20STARTER%20MOTOR/parts.html
btb posted 08-02-2008 01:45 PM ET (US)
The surging and subsequent symptoms sound like fuel starvation. Check the entire fuel supply system.
John OSr posted 08-02-2008 03:16 PM ET (US)
I repeat. The 1980 series VRO have a common problem the electronics cause the symptoms described until the motor stops and won't start again. Both my twin 1989 VRO's run fine now. PS the parts fit many motors in the same series 80's motors.
John OSr posted 08-02-2008 03:38 PM ET (US)
Article found same engine same problem? pierce check this out.
http://www.outboardrepairs.com/topics/004830.html
Pierce posted 08-02-2008 06:22 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the threads guys. I'm still hedging on the power pack. That thread you linked me to is about what I'm thinking. It seems like a component is getting heat soaked over a period of time and ultimatley failing. I can't even get the motor to light off now. I will not rule a fuel issue though. John, for now I have an appointment with Dwuane at Action Marine in LaConner on the 25th of August. I will look into Valley RV&Marine next week. Thanks ALL!!!
Brianlev posted 08-03-2008 09:20 PM ET (US)

I had a similar problem a few years ago and replaced the fuel line and bingo! Problem solved. It was sucking air at the tank connection I believe.
Tohsgib posted 08-04-2008 10:48 AM ET (US)
I could also be the lower crank seal letting water in your bottom cyls. Check to see if bottom plugs are VERY clean compared to the tops. Pretty much sounds like electronics if it has gotten that bad or pugs are that fouled, etc.

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Author	Topic: 89 Evinrude giving me an ulcer
Pierce	posted 08-01-2008 01:30 PM ET (US) Ok, first I know Jim, you told me so. Anyway I bought an 89 Evinrude 70 VRO a few months back with the knowledge that it at least needed a carb rebuild. It went directly to the shop after I got it mounted on the 15ss. So here ia what has been done and then what it is still doing. Done)- The carbs have been rebuilt New cold start fuel selenoid(choke) New fuel filter Fresh gas,and pumped out old gas in the fuel hose New plugs Brand new VRO tank assembly Brand new reeds. And associated gaskets.Did them myself. Compression is good at 120# give or take 2# on all 3 cylinders. New thermostat Now for what it is doing. It would be hard to start. I guess they all probably are to some extent. Once it running, I could get it up on plane all the way to 5500 rpm. Then over a time span of around 15 to 20 minutes, it would start to not run so well at slower speeds(off plane). It seemed to "hunt/surge" at around 1500-1700 in gear. If I pushed the throttle up a little it would suddenly start to take off and I would have to pull back on the throttle to keep from going faster than I wanted to. Then it simply would not idle. When I would put it in idle, out of gear, heck or even in, it would just start to slow down and then die. And eventually I couldn't even get it started again. Thank God for my so far trusty Suzuki 6hp kicker I bought last year. It didn't matter if I pushed in the key while trying or not. I do hear the fuel solenoid click when I push in the key. I'm starting to think I am having an electrical problem and not a fuel problem. This outboard, in appearance and from what the previous owner tells me, has very low hours and the majority of it's life has been spent on lakes. There is little to no corrosion on the outside of the engine. Yesterday I bought an inline spark tester to see if I'm getting juice to the plugs. It does light up, but I'm not sure if I am looking at a good amount of juice going to the plugs or a weak amount. My thoughts are that my timming is off, weak spark, bad power pack. It's as though a component is getiing hot over time and then not working so well. Ofcourse what ever it is, now it won't work at all. HELP!!! My boating season SUCKS!!!
Blackduck	posted 08-01-2008 02:13 PM ET (US) Still sounds like a fuel issue to me. I would check with the person who rebuilt the carbs before going any further.
Tohsgib	posted 08-01-2008 02:18 PM ET (US) Ditto...they need to synch & link them or your idle etc will be crap. Sounds like at 15-1700 she is transitioning between the idle circuits and the high speed jets and it is not setup correctly. To S&L it needs to be in the water usually to get it right.
Pierce	posted 08-01-2008 02:50 PM ET (US) I can't disagree with that. I can't stomach the 98$ an hour though. I will try. I'm sure however the mechanic is sick of seeing me. The shop is only 10 minutes away. I have visited them numerous times. Yes I can take it to another shop that is as close buy. And I may do just that. Also I didn't mention that in the past I could have the motor idling nicely on the trailer only have these issues once I got it in the water. So yes, perhaps the sinc&link is wrong. Thanks!
JMARTIN	posted 08-01-2008 08:41 PM ET (US) Pierce, Valley RV & Marine has an mechanic who really seems to know these older OMC's. He is very familiar with a "link & sync" for the carbs and the VRO unit. Did you replace the VRO pump? The shop that rebuilt the carbs, man, they must of synchronized them. Have you asked? If it starts like mine, try this: Do not advance any throttle when you try to start her. Just make sure you are pumped up and crank away. Poke the choke if nothing happens. When she fires, use the choke to keep her going if you have to. Mine has an automatic choke doo-hickey that advances the throttle. It reminds me of my old 350 Chev PU. I can idle quite aways away from the dock before it kicks down. John
John OSr	posted 08-02-2008 01:06 PM ET (US) Both my 1989 Johnson 140VRO's needed the same parts for similar problems not fuel or Carbs but look like the same symtoms. Needed Timer Base AY and Kit AYCD4AL67PP electronic modules. First one went then the other motor had similar problems one week apart?? Same parts fixed both Parts Diagram here http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/1989/J140CXCEC%201989/IGNITION%20SYSTEM%20&%20STARTER%20MOTOR/parts.html
btb	posted 08-02-2008 01:45 PM ET (US) The surging and subsequent symptoms sound like fuel starvation. Check the entire fuel supply system.
John OSr	posted 08-02-2008 03:16 PM ET (US) I repeat. The 1980 series VRO have a common problem the electronics cause the symptoms described until the motor stops and won't start again. Both my twin 1989 VRO's run fine now. PS the parts fit many motors in the same series 80's motors.
John OSr	posted 08-02-2008 03:38 PM ET (US) Article found same engine same problem? pierce check this out. http://www.outboardrepairs.com/topics/004830.html
Pierce	posted 08-02-2008 06:22 PM ET (US) Thanks for the threads guys. I'm still hedging on the power pack. That thread you linked me to is about what I'm thinking. It seems like a component is getting heat soaked over a period of time and ultimatley failing. I can't even get the motor to light off now. I will not rule a fuel issue though. John, for now I have an appointment with Dwuane at Action Marine in LaConner on the 25th of August. I will look into Valley RV&Marine next week. Thanks ALL!!!
Brianlev	posted 08-03-2008 09:20 PM ET (US) I had a similar problem a few years ago and replaced the fuel line and bingo! Problem solved. It was sucking air at the tank connection I believe.
Tohsgib	posted 08-04-2008 10:48 AM ET (US) I could also be the lower crank seal letting water in your bottom cyls. Check to see if bottom plugs are VERY clean compared to the tops. Pretty much sounds like electronics if it has gotten that bad or pugs are that fouled, etc.