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Author Topic:   Outrage 17 I scupper repair.

95Outrage17 posted 10-11-2008 12:55 PM ET (US)
This info was asked for by Roman (rosamu) who just purchased a '95 Outrage 17' It specifically applies to the Outrage 17' I hulls equipped with factory installed cockpit scuppers in the transom. I believe Whaler started installing these scuppers in this hull for the '93 or '94 model year. My '95 has them.
There is a major design flaw with these scuppers which allows water in enter the foam in the hull. The scuppers are two piece (one outside and one inside) with a check ball and scupper flap on the outside. The problem is that the two pieces do not mechanically fasten together. In fact they barely mate inside the hull. At the factory it appears that they were installed with a liberal amount of calking/sealant in the hope that the sealant would make up for the lack of mechanical fastening. It doesn't. It appears the water slowly leaks in between the two pieces and enters the foam in the hull.
Now, I had read about this here before from another member but I didn't quite understand until the pieces were remove from my Outrage. Now, we bought my boat in '05 from the original owner in CT who had trailered it most of the time he owned it and had only left it in the water at a slip 3 or 4 summers. It lived in a garage in the winter. The boat was in great shape. I decided to remove these scuppers in the spring of '07. I had kept the boat in the water here in NS most of the two summers I had it, but it did spend some time on the trailer during the summer when I wasn't around. Anyway, when the scuppers were removed the foam around them was wet. I was not able to locate a replacement that I felt would work better so I was forced to reuse the original scuppers, but was determined to stop the water from entering the hull. The wet foam surronding the scuppers was removed and any remaining moisture was dried with a heat gun. Then the holes were lined with a liberal amount of thickened epoxy, effectively creating a waterproof (hopefully) barrier around the scupper hole. The hole was then resized (using drill/file) so that the scuppers would again fit in. They were then reinstalled with lots of sealant.
Anyway, in theory, if done properly this will solve the problem with these scuppers. I may remove them again at some point to make sure it worked. I did replace the bilge drain this spring as I has suspected it was leaking due to my experience with other Whalers. It was. When I removed it the tube was wet and the surrounding foam as well. The boat had been sitting in a heated garage all winter. I dried the surrounding foam with a heat gun and ended up drilling a hole behind the drain in the keel to let the remaining water out. Over a couple weeks I used a vacuume and heat on this area to dry it. It seemed to work, but took time. I filled the drain hole with epoxy, redrilled and with the help of a friend installed the new tube with lots of 3M 5200.
Anyway, hopefully this info is helpful and I'm sure it applies to other Whalers as well...
- Chris
Casco Bay Outrage posted 10-11-2008 04:33 PM ET (US)
Chris -
Good write-up.
Are the thru hulls a larger diameter than the well known brass drain tubes?
Did you consider using PVC with a external scupper attached?
Do you have any photos of the scuppers prior or during the repair?
Hope you had a good season. Only 30 hrs and one gathering for me to date.
:~(
Phil
95Outrage17 posted 10-11-2008 10:24 PM ET (US)
Hi Phil,
Thanks! I could write many more like that, but there's just not enough time. That's an important one when it comes to that vintage Outrage 17'. I never got to posting pics and talking about all that work I did to that '91 Outrage 17' last winter. Hopefully I will at some point. I'll say this though; It was a lot of work and cost more then I had hoped, but the boat feels different, floats higher (actually!) and is generally an all around nicer boat. It could still use a little in the cosmetic department, but functionally, it's great. Anyway, off topic...
Yes, the later style plastic drain tubes are a larger diameter (the scuppers are bigger again). Still they're not great. They're one use and not that heavy duty, but they work and are easier to deal with then the brass tubes. I have an Outrage 18' to install new drain tubes in this winter and I might skip the original brass tubes and go for something nicer. I wanted to put some nice big bronze, screw together thru hulls in mine this spring, but they didn't fit nicely. I may try something similar on the 18' though and see if they're work in that application.
I didn't consider a PVC tube and scupper on the outside. I like the factory setup with the check ball inside the actual tube with the scupper flap on the outside (other then the obvious design flaw). They have been sticking and allowing water to backflow a bit lately though. I'm thinking about trying one of those check ball fittings in place of the scupper flap to see if that stops the back flow issue. I also want something that gives that clean factory look too.
I don't think I have any pics of the scuppers during the repair, wish I did. Someone else did most of the work for me as I didn't have time to do all of the repair then.
Had a fairly good season of boating, not as much as usual though until later in the summer. I had a lot of time off in Aug and into Sept. Wish I had an hour meter to know how many hours I put on. I'd really like to know how many hours the engine has in total too. I'm getting in some good boating this weekend with some nice (but a bit chilly) weather. I hope for at least a bit more good boating before the season ends! Same for you!
- Chris
skred posted 10-12-2008 11:53 AM ET (US)
I used the aftermarket check ball system on my Dauntless 16 - in place of the flappers. They worked just fine. You have to flush the housing out now and then to prevent gunk from keeping the ball from seating properly. T-H Marine Flo-Max Ball Scuppers were what I used - at about $15.00 each...
95Outrage17 posted 10-12-2008 05:21 PM ET (US)
Hi skred,
Thanks for the note on those scuppers. I have two new ones in a bag in the garage that I may try next season. The holes line up exactly with the holes for the original flaps. Part of the problem on my boat is the heavy 4-stroke that puts the scuppers just below water level on the outside of the transom at rest. Sometimes when I stand in an aft corner (like I was yesterday while pouring gas into the filler) the water comes in on the floor and gets my foot wet. I'll check the scuppers for debris too. The boat has only been out of the water one week this summer (usually I trailer it several times a summer) so it's also possible there's some alge growing in there...
- Chris
mjf19 posted 10-14-2008 01:22 PM ET (US)
has anybody had any luck with Boston Whaler regasrding the design flaw? I have a 94, 19 ft outrage that i have owned for two years, We recently discovered the same problem. In addition, a neighbor at our marina has a 95 outrage that had the same problem.
Will whaler do anything to help offset the cost of the repairs? any indeas wouldbe helpful
skred posted 10-14-2008 03:02 PM ET (US)
My Dauntless had the same problem - the scuppers were just at the waterline when I stood at the rear (which was often). If I made sure the add-on ball scuppers were clear of debris, they seemed to work just great. Of course, my 16 Dauntless may have behaved somewhat differently than the Outrages...
95Outrage17 posted 10-14-2008 09:09 PM ET (US)
Hi mjf19,
I assuming the problem you're talking about is the problem of water entering the foam in the hull via the poor scupper design/installation? Or are you speaking of the problem where water leaks into the cockpit while the boat is at rest?
I have not contacted Whaler about either problem. I didn't think that they would do anything to resolve them as admitting to this sort of fault could snowball into a big problem for them. They should do something about the design of the scuppers though, very poor setup in my opinion. To add to that, I've never removed a thru hull from a Whaler that was NOT wet. Even the bilge drain in an '03 Montauk 170 last winter. Not sealed well enough it seems. The older brass tubes even have problems when the tubes are still in good condition. The rubber gasket under the flair at each end of the tube fails and allows water into the hull. The poor scupper design in the later Outrage 17 I (and others apparently) is really bad though. It never should have been allowed through production if you ask me!
- Chris

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Author	Topic: Outrage 17 I scupper repair.
95Outrage17	posted 10-11-2008 12:55 PM ET (US) This info was asked for by Roman (rosamu) who just purchased a '95 Outrage 17' It specifically applies to the Outrage 17' I hulls equipped with factory installed cockpit scuppers in the transom. I believe Whaler started installing these scuppers in this hull for the '93 or '94 model year. My '95 has them. There is a major design flaw with these scuppers which allows water in enter the foam in the hull. The scuppers are two piece (one outside and one inside) with a check ball and scupper flap on the outside. The problem is that the two pieces do not mechanically fasten together. In fact they barely mate inside the hull. At the factory it appears that they were installed with a liberal amount of calking/sealant in the hope that the sealant would make up for the lack of mechanical fastening. It doesn't. It appears the water slowly leaks in between the two pieces and enters the foam in the hull. Now, I had read about this here before from another member but I didn't quite understand until the pieces were remove from my Outrage. Now, we bought my boat in '05 from the original owner in CT who had trailered it most of the time he owned it and had only left it in the water at a slip 3 or 4 summers. It lived in a garage in the winter. The boat was in great shape. I decided to remove these scuppers in the spring of '07. I had kept the boat in the water here in NS most of the two summers I had it, but it did spend some time on the trailer during the summer when I wasn't around. Anyway, when the scuppers were removed the foam around them was wet. I was not able to locate a replacement that I felt would work better so I was forced to reuse the original scuppers, but was determined to stop the water from entering the hull. The wet foam surronding the scuppers was removed and any remaining moisture was dried with a heat gun. Then the holes were lined with a liberal amount of thickened epoxy, effectively creating a waterproof (hopefully) barrier around the scupper hole. The hole was then resized (using drill/file) so that the scuppers would again fit in. They were then reinstalled with lots of sealant. Anyway, in theory, if done properly this will solve the problem with these scuppers. I may remove them again at some point to make sure it worked. I did replace the bilge drain this spring as I has suspected it was leaking due to my experience with other Whalers. It was. When I removed it the tube was wet and the surrounding foam as well. The boat had been sitting in a heated garage all winter. I dried the surrounding foam with a heat gun and ended up drilling a hole behind the drain in the keel to let the remaining water out. Over a couple weeks I used a vacuume and heat on this area to dry it. It seemed to work, but took time. I filled the drain hole with epoxy, redrilled and with the help of a friend installed the new tube with lots of 3M 5200. Anyway, hopefully this info is helpful and I'm sure it applies to other Whalers as well... - Chris
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 10-11-2008 04:33 PM ET (US) Chris - Good write-up. Are the thru hulls a larger diameter than the well known brass drain tubes? Did you consider using PVC with a external scupper attached? Do you have any photos of the scuppers prior or during the repair? Hope you had a good season. Only 30 hrs and one gathering for me to date. :~( Phil
95Outrage17	posted 10-11-2008 10:24 PM ET (US) Hi Phil, Thanks! I could write many more like that, but there's just not enough time. That's an important one when it comes to that vintage Outrage 17'. I never got to posting pics and talking about all that work I did to that '91 Outrage 17' last winter. Hopefully I will at some point. I'll say this though; It was a lot of work and cost more then I had hoped, but the boat feels different, floats higher (actually!) and is generally an all around nicer boat. It could still use a little in the cosmetic department, but functionally, it's great. Anyway, off topic... Yes, the later style plastic drain tubes are a larger diameter (the scuppers are bigger again). Still they're not great. They're one use and not that heavy duty, but they work and are easier to deal with then the brass tubes. I have an Outrage 18' to install new drain tubes in this winter and I might skip the original brass tubes and go for something nicer. I wanted to put some nice big bronze, screw together thru hulls in mine this spring, but they didn't fit nicely. I may try something similar on the 18' though and see if they're work in that application. I didn't consider a PVC tube and scupper on the outside. I like the factory setup with the check ball inside the actual tube with the scupper flap on the outside (other then the obvious design flaw). They have been sticking and allowing water to backflow a bit lately though. I'm thinking about trying one of those check ball fittings in place of the scupper flap to see if that stops the back flow issue. I also want something that gives that clean factory look too. I don't think I have any pics of the scuppers during the repair, wish I did. Someone else did most of the work for me as I didn't have time to do all of the repair then. Had a fairly good season of boating, not as much as usual though until later in the summer. I had a lot of time off in Aug and into Sept. Wish I had an hour meter to know how many hours I put on. I'd really like to know how many hours the engine has in total too. I'm getting in some good boating this weekend with some nice (but a bit chilly) weather. I hope for at least a bit more good boating before the season ends! Same for you! - Chris
skred	posted 10-12-2008 11:53 AM ET (US) I used the aftermarket check ball system on my Dauntless 16 - in place of the flappers. They worked just fine. You have to flush the housing out now and then to prevent gunk from keeping the ball from seating properly. T-H Marine Flo-Max Ball Scuppers were what I used - at about $15.00 each...
95Outrage17	posted 10-12-2008 05:21 PM ET (US) Hi skred, Thanks for the note on those scuppers. I have two new ones in a bag in the garage that I may try next season. The holes line up exactly with the holes for the original flaps. Part of the problem on my boat is the heavy 4-stroke that puts the scuppers just below water level on the outside of the transom at rest. Sometimes when I stand in an aft corner (like I was yesterday while pouring gas into the filler) the water comes in on the floor and gets my foot wet. I'll check the scuppers for debris too. The boat has only been out of the water one week this summer (usually I trailer it several times a summer) so it's also possible there's some alge growing in there... - Chris
mjf19	posted 10-14-2008 01:22 PM ET (US) has anybody had any luck with Boston Whaler regasrding the design flaw? I have a 94, 19 ft outrage that i have owned for two years, We recently discovered the same problem. In addition, a neighbor at our marina has a 95 outrage that had the same problem. Will whaler do anything to help offset the cost of the repairs? any indeas wouldbe helpful
skred	posted 10-14-2008 03:02 PM ET (US) My Dauntless had the same problem - the scuppers were just at the waterline when I stood at the rear (which was often). If I made sure the add-on ball scuppers were clear of debris, they seemed to work just great. Of course, my 16 Dauntless may have behaved somewhat differently than the Outrages...
95Outrage17	posted 10-14-2008 09:09 PM ET (US) Hi mjf19, I assuming the problem you're talking about is the problem of water entering the foam in the hull via the poor scupper design/installation? Or are you speaking of the problem where water leaks into the cockpit while the boat is at rest? I have not contacted Whaler about either problem. I didn't think that they would do anything to resolve them as admitting to this sort of fault could snowball into a big problem for them. They should do something about the design of the scuppers though, very poor setup in my opinion. To add to that, I've never removed a thru hull from a Whaler that was NOT wet. Even the bilge drain in an '03 Montauk 170 last winter. Not sealed well enough it seems. The older brass tubes even have problems when the tubes are still in good condition. The rubber gasket under the flair at each end of the tube fails and allows water into the hull. The poor scupper design in the later Outrage 17 I (and others apparently) is really bad though. It never should have been allowed through production if you ask me! - Chris