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Author Topic:   1970 restoration

willdrone posted 11-05-2008 07:44 PM ET (US)
I am restoring a 1970 16ft whaler. it was an old government boat and there are alot of repairs on the hull. i am planning on fixing the repairs that don't look sound, but i know that there is water in the hull because where I ground out the repair areas, the foam is wet.i am planning on re gel coating the entire boat inside and out but don't want to chance all of my work with water inside the hull. What is the best option for getting the water out?
jeffs22outrage posted 11-06-2008 10:54 AM ET (US)
Honestly there is no way to get all of the water out from between the hull skins. During my restoration of my 22 outrage I found that even though the foam used was closed cell foam, over time those cells will break open and allow water to move around with in the foam. This is good and bad. Bad because it allows for more area for water to find it's way into places and sit. Good because once in there is will move and settle in the lowest spots it can find. In most cases this would mean the keel and maybe the chines depending on how much water there is. So long as you have no delimitation of the skins from the foam it should be a straight forward solution. This means you will need to drill some holes along the keel line. I would start at the stern and drill 1/4" holes about every 6 inches moving towards the bow till maybe half way. Then try and get the bow up higher then the stern. Since you are refinishing the hull anyway you will need not worry about putting that many holes in the hull. You will be filling them anyway while fixing the other areas that need work. Once the holes are drilled let gravity do it's work. Once the dripping has stopped you have gotten out all the water that you will be able to. The foam will still be damp though. Now fill the hull over with the keep facing up. Start at the first hole and use a hair dryer or heat gun on low to dry the foam in that area as much as you can. Now fill the hole and move to the next one. That is the route I would take. Everyone has their own ways and here are some other thread that may help.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001747.html
http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=chainsaw+whaler
http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=removing+water+from+foam
http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=removing+water+from+hull
Mister S posted 11-06-2008 11:45 AM ET (US)
What a great answer to the question.
willdrone posted 11-06-2008 11:59 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the info! I will try it and hope it works. also the brass drain tube in the back of the boat is bad does anyone know where to get one?
jimh posted 11-06-2008 01:45 PM ET (US)
Try:
http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=brass+near+drain+near+ tube
As you may have deduced from the solutions proposed so far, the website has an effective search tool which can be used to locate prior discussions using key word searches and relational operators.
The brass tubes are generally sold at marine suppliers. Typically they have one formed end. You have to cut the unformed end to length and form it. Annealing the brass by heating it with a torch is reported to be beneficial in helping to form the flare and lip without splitting the brass material.
At one time there was in circulation a tool that was being lent among various participants, but at this writing the tool's location is not known to me.
jimh posted 11-06-2008 09:41 PM ET (US)
The tool was useful in forming a flare and curled lip, providing there was room to use it in-situ.
When installing the drain tubes there often is a surface which is not orthogonal to the tube, and an angled cut of the tube may be required.
filthypit posted 11-07-2008 09:51 AM ET (US)
our experience has been, drilling holes is not enough to drain wet foam. the 19ft Outrage we did had been sitting on blocks in a dry barn for several years and had dozens of holes drilled in it ~ and it still had wet foam around the stern/keel.
we ended up removing two patches of glass (approx 4ft²), digging out the wet foam, airdrying, then replacing w/ 2 part foam mix.
this process, although not for the faint of heart, worked extremely well on this boat. it was bone-dry when we re-sealed the deck skin.
good luck!
dscew posted 11-07-2008 11:28 AM ET (US)
Question: does this 2-part foam have the same or nearly the same structural properties as the compressed, high-density foam you would find in an intact Whaler?
willdrone posted 11-08-2008 02:17 PM ET (US)
Thank for the insight! Is it really nessesary to have the foam completely dry? I dont really want to wait a long time for it to dry. I had to cut about a 3 ft section of the bottom keel out because of a bad repair and the foam inside was still white but saturated, my plan is to finish sanding the hull and turn the boat over and re do the inside, hopefully by the time I am done with that I can go right to finishing the bottom. If it is not completely dry and i refinish and gel coat the bottom anyway, will i run into problems in the future? again thanks for all the info-Will
filthypit posted 11-09-2008 12:27 AM ET (US)
re: foam density?
that would be a good question for the ppl @ eastern burlap (norfolk) since they sell the products.
our experience was, the better you mix it, the more dense the foam becomes. it worked best w/ an electric mixer like you use in the kitchen.
you would be well advised to allow that boat to dry out before attempting to seal up the fiberglass skin. you can do things to accelerate the process; indoors w/ dehumidifier, space heater, etc.

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Author	Topic: 1970 restoration
willdrone	posted 11-05-2008 07:44 PM ET (US) I am restoring a 1970 16ft whaler. it was an old government boat and there are alot of repairs on the hull. i am planning on fixing the repairs that don't look sound, but i know that there is water in the hull because where I ground out the repair areas, the foam is wet.i am planning on re gel coating the entire boat inside and out but don't want to chance all of my work with water inside the hull. What is the best option for getting the water out?
jeffs22outrage	posted 11-06-2008 10:54 AM ET (US) Honestly there is no way to get all of the water out from between the hull skins. During my restoration of my 22 outrage I found that even though the foam used was closed cell foam, over time those cells will break open and allow water to move around with in the foam. This is good and bad. Bad because it allows for more area for water to find it's way into places and sit. Good because once in there is will move and settle in the lowest spots it can find. In most cases this would mean the keel and maybe the chines depending on how much water there is. So long as you have no delimitation of the skins from the foam it should be a straight forward solution. This means you will need to drill some holes along the keel line. I would start at the stern and drill 1/4" holes about every 6 inches moving towards the bow till maybe half way. Then try and get the bow up higher then the stern. Since you are refinishing the hull anyway you will need not worry about putting that many holes in the hull. You will be filling them anyway while fixing the other areas that need work. Once the holes are drilled let gravity do it's work. Once the dripping has stopped you have gotten out all the water that you will be able to. The foam will still be damp though. Now fill the hull over with the keep facing up. Start at the first hole and use a hair dryer or heat gun on low to dry the foam in that area as much as you can. Now fill the hole and move to the next one. That is the route I would take. Everyone has their own ways and here are some other thread that may help. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001747.html http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=chainsaw+whaler http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=removing+water+from+foam http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=removing+water+from+hull
Mister S	posted 11-06-2008 11:45 AM ET (US) What a great answer to the question.
willdrone	posted 11-06-2008 11:59 AM ET (US) Thanks for the info! I will try it and hope it works. also the brass drain tube in the back of the boat is bad does anyone know where to get one?
jimh	posted 11-06-2008 01:45 PM ET (US) Try: http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/sw.pl?Search=brass+near+drain+near+ tube As you may have deduced from the solutions proposed so far, the website has an effective search tool which can be used to locate prior discussions using key word searches and relational operators. The brass tubes are generally sold at marine suppliers. Typically they have one formed end. You have to cut the unformed end to length and form it. Annealing the brass by heating it with a torch is reported to be beneficial in helping to form the flare and lip without splitting the brass material. At one time there was in circulation a tool that was being lent among various participants, but at this writing the tool's location is not known to me.
jimh	posted 11-06-2008 09:41 PM ET (US) The tool was useful in forming a flare and curled lip, providing there was room to use it in-situ. When installing the drain tubes there often is a surface which is not orthogonal to the tube, and an angled cut of the tube may be required.
filthypit	posted 11-07-2008 09:51 AM ET (US) our experience has been, drilling holes is not enough to drain wet foam. the 19ft Outrage we did had been sitting on blocks in a dry barn for several years and had dozens of holes drilled in it ~ and it still had wet foam around the stern/keel. we ended up removing two patches of glass (approx 4ft²), digging out the wet foam, airdrying, then replacing w/ 2 part foam mix. this process, although not for the faint of heart, worked extremely well on this boat. it was bone-dry when we re-sealed the deck skin. good luck!
dscew	posted 11-07-2008 11:28 AM ET (US) Question: does this 2-part foam have the same or nearly the same structural properties as the compressed, high-density foam you would find in an intact Whaler?
willdrone	posted 11-08-2008 02:17 PM ET (US) Thank for the insight! Is it really nessesary to have the foam completely dry? I dont really want to wait a long time for it to dry. I had to cut about a 3 ft section of the bottom keel out because of a bad repair and the foam inside was still white but saturated, my plan is to finish sanding the hull and turn the boat over and re do the inside, hopefully by the time I am done with that I can go right to finishing the bottom. If it is not completely dry and i refinish and gel coat the bottom anyway, will i run into problems in the future? again thanks for all the info-Will
filthypit	posted 11-09-2008 12:27 AM ET (US) re: foam density? that would be a good question for the ppl @ eastern burlap (norfolk) since they sell the products. our experience was, the better you mix it, the more dense the foam becomes. it worked best w/ an electric mixer like you use in the kitchen. you would be well advised to allow that boat to dry out before attempting to seal up the fiberglass skin. you can do things to accelerate the process; indoors w/ dehumidifier, space heater, etc.