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Author Topic:   Re-Coating Varnish Finishes

rubadub555 posted 11-11-2008 08:32 AM ET (US)
CW walked me through the process of rejuvenating the trim on our 1980 Montauk six years ago. The glassy Schooner varnish finish has barely thinned around the upper edges of the console doors. The anchor locker and RPS remain immaculate. The boat is covered when not in use. Give me a recommendation for (or direct me to a good thread describing) a technique for sprucing up the thinning regions of trim.
The technique that I used when I took it down to bare wood before was to simply remove trim from vessel and follow the same sand, wipe, coat, let dry. sand. wipe, coat, and so on. I'm most concerned about how to merge the refinished work with the still-intact portions of finish, because I am not eager to do the entire hatch and doors again if I can simply feather the margins. Thanks in advance--rubadub
Newtauk1 posted 11-11-2008 09:25 AM ET (US)
If the edges are failing it is only a matter of time when all the finish comes up. I would suggest finishing the entire area and get another 6-7 years. Doing only one section now may mean doing another section soon.The prep will take a bit more time, but the dry time between coats will be the same That's extra work in my opinion. If the wood is off do it all then. Good luck. I am sure you will find the results rewarding in the end.
pglein posted 11-11-2008 04:45 PM ET (US)
You should be able to sand around the areas that are peeling or wearing thin and just touch them up with the same kind of varnish you used before. Ultimately, varnish will not stick to teak over the long haul. The natural oils in teak prevent the varnish from bonding the way it will to less oily woods like mahogany.
Slick 50 posted 11-11-2008 04:55 PM ET (US)
I am surprised the experts have not helped you yet.
From what I have read here and learned on my own you should be able to lightly sand and refinish the existing varnish. It sounds like it has not worn completely through, is that correct? Is the existing varnish looking good other than the worn edges? If this is correct I would do like you mentioned, lightly sand and do several re-coats. I would refinish the worn areas first and get a build up and then do the entire surface to get even coverage.
Hunch posted 11-11-2008 06:12 PM ET (US)
Varnish will adhere to teak just as well and for as long as any other wood. Just be sure to sand and "prep" correctly, and wipe the teak down with acetone or lacquer thinner to remove any surface oil and dust prior to the 1st coat.
BTW kids I've been a ships carpenter since 1964 so I think I have an idea what I'm talking about.
If you sand down and just touch up the worn areas you will have differences in color and appearance. But if you want a perfect look there's so little woodwork made up of small items on Whalers you may as well wood out the entire piece and recoat with at least 4 coats of a good varnish, 8 coats would be optimum sanding between coats with 220.
rubadub555 posted 11-12-2008 10:54 AM ET (US)
Thanks to all; will report back.
Tom W Clark posted 11-12-2008 11:03 AM ET (US)
I want to repeat something Hunch said above and slap back an old wives' tale:
Varnish will adhere to teak just fine.
It is very difficult to "touch-up" varnish on any wood once the varnish has failed in an isolated area. This is one of the many reasons I prefer to have the teak trim on a Montauk or Outrage oiled rather than varnished.
Slick 50 posted 11-12-2008 11:33 AM ET (US)
Tom,
What makes a touch up difficult? (adhesion, color)
If the varnish has darkened could he add a small amount of stain to the varnish to match color?
It sounds like he wants to get by without a major teak stripping.
Tom W Clark posted 11-12-2008 12:16 PM ET (US)
Rick,
If you sand enough to remove the edge of the varnish that is not solid, you end up sanding into the wood which will show after new varnish is applied. In other words, it will look like a patch.
I agree with Hunch, it is probably easier to strip the entire part and start fresh.
Slick 50 posted 11-12-2008 01:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks Tom
Tohsgib posted 11-12-2008 01:31 PM ET (US)
Try it and if it looks like a patch, strip it and refinish.
OutrageMan posted 11-12-2008 02:26 PM ET (US)
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/whalerWood.html
L H G posted 11-12-2008 02:36 PM ET (US)
When I have to touch up a varnish nick, scratch, general dulling or edge wear, I re-sand and feather the whole piece with 3M's professional grade #320, then re-stain the whole piece (that's right, bare wood and over old intact varnish), then re-coat at least 3 times. Looks beautiful, and the repair area does not show.

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Author	Topic: Re-Coating Varnish Finishes
rubadub555	posted 11-11-2008 08:32 AM ET (US) CW walked me through the process of rejuvenating the trim on our 1980 Montauk six years ago. The glassy Schooner varnish finish has barely thinned around the upper edges of the console doors. The anchor locker and RPS remain immaculate. The boat is covered when not in use. Give me a recommendation for (or direct me to a good thread describing) a technique for sprucing up the thinning regions of trim. The technique that I used when I took it down to bare wood before was to simply remove trim from vessel and follow the same sand, wipe, coat, let dry. sand. wipe, coat, and so on. I'm most concerned about how to merge the refinished work with the still-intact portions of finish, because I am not eager to do the entire hatch and doors again if I can simply feather the margins. Thanks in advance--rubadub
Newtauk1	posted 11-11-2008 09:25 AM ET (US) If the edges are failing it is only a matter of time when all the finish comes up. I would suggest finishing the entire area and get another 6-7 years. Doing only one section now may mean doing another section soon.The prep will take a bit more time, but the dry time between coats will be the same That's extra work in my opinion. If the wood is off do it all then. Good luck. I am sure you will find the results rewarding in the end.
pglein	posted 11-11-2008 04:45 PM ET (US) You should be able to sand around the areas that are peeling or wearing thin and just touch them up with the same kind of varnish you used before. Ultimately, varnish will not stick to teak over the long haul. The natural oils in teak prevent the varnish from bonding the way it will to less oily woods like mahogany.
Slick 50	posted 11-11-2008 04:55 PM ET (US) I am surprised the experts have not helped you yet. From what I have read here and learned on my own you should be able to lightly sand and refinish the existing varnish. It sounds like it has not worn completely through, is that correct? Is the existing varnish looking good other than the worn edges? If this is correct I would do like you mentioned, lightly sand and do several re-coats. I would refinish the worn areas first and get a build up and then do the entire surface to get even coverage.
Hunch	posted 11-11-2008 06:12 PM ET (US) Varnish will adhere to teak just as well and for as long as any other wood. Just be sure to sand and "prep" correctly, and wipe the teak down with acetone or lacquer thinner to remove any surface oil and dust prior to the 1st coat. BTW kids I've been a ships carpenter since 1964 so I think I have an idea what I'm talking about. If you sand down and just touch up the worn areas you will have differences in color and appearance. But if you want a perfect look there's so little woodwork made up of small items on Whalers you may as well wood out the entire piece and recoat with at least 4 coats of a good varnish, 8 coats would be optimum sanding between coats with 220.
rubadub555	posted 11-12-2008 10:54 AM ET (US) Thanks to all; will report back.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-12-2008 11:03 AM ET (US) I want to repeat something Hunch said above and slap back an old wives' tale: Varnish will adhere to teak just fine. It is very difficult to "touch-up" varnish on any wood once the varnish has failed in an isolated area. This is one of the many reasons I prefer to have the teak trim on a Montauk or Outrage oiled rather than varnished.
Slick 50	posted 11-12-2008 11:33 AM ET (US) Tom, What makes a touch up difficult? (adhesion, color) If the varnish has darkened could he add a small amount of stain to the varnish to match color? It sounds like he wants to get by without a major teak stripping.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-12-2008 12:16 PM ET (US) Rick, If you sand enough to remove the edge of the varnish that is not solid, you end up sanding into the wood which will show after new varnish is applied. In other words, it will look like a patch. I agree with Hunch, it is probably easier to strip the entire part and start fresh.
Slick 50	posted 11-12-2008 01:04 PM ET (US) Thanks Tom
Tohsgib	posted 11-12-2008 01:31 PM ET (US) Try it and if it looks like a patch, strip it and refinish.
OutrageMan	posted 11-12-2008 02:26 PM ET (US) http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/whalerWood.html
L H G	posted 11-12-2008 02:36 PM ET (US) When I have to touch up a varnish nick, scratch, general dulling or edge wear, I re-sand and feather the whole piece with 3M's professional grade #320, then re-stain the whole piece (that's right, bare wood and over old intact varnish), then re-coat at least 3 times. Looks beautiful, and the repair area does not show.