OUTRAGE 20: Moving Batteries to Center Console

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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 20: Moving Batteries to Center Console

Smithsm posted 03-17-2009 11:52 AM ET (US)
I plan to move my two batteries into the center console on my 1988 Outrage 20. I have twin outboards and there is a lot of weight in the stern - I would like to even it out a bit.
My first-pass plan is to go from twin or seperate battery leads to each engine to one much thicker single lead from the twin batteries in the center console and use one of those red switches to link the two batteries through the switch in the center console to the thick single wire back to both engines.
I know I need to support the underside of the center console to the deck--someone did this by slipping in a 4"X4" treated lumber underneath. I will either do this or simply cut out the floor of the center console so the batteries are sitting directly on the deck but held in place in the plastic battery box by the precise size of the opening.
Has anyone done a similar modification?
Any comments, warnings or advice would be appreciated.

Tohsgib posted 03-17-2009 12:03 PM ET (US)
The decks in my Montauk's were cut by the factory to fit a battery box which the battery slid into. I never used the lids as they were out of the weather.
Buckda posted 03-17-2009 12:51 PM ET (US)
I have a hole in the floor of my console that accomodates both batteries to sit on the deck. I used foam pipe insulation to "edge" the holes - this keeps the plastic boxes from "cricketing" (annoying noise) due to vibration or wave action, and has the added benefit to keep small items (screws) from falling to the deck if they get loose in the console. That is also handy when changing electrical connections, etc in the console, as sometimes those small screws/washers get away from you - this way, they're in the console still, and you can find them much more easily.
I don't agree with your proposed wiring configuration, however. It is far better to go with the “’New’ dual engine, dual battery” configuration outlined here:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/graphics/newWiring600x400.gif
This is simple to operate and easy to install, however, it does call for four (4) heavy battery cables running through the rigging tunnel. I use this configuration on my 18’ Outrage.
A complete article on this topic is here:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html
Landlocked posted 03-17-2009 02:18 PM ET (US)
I actually cut the floor out of my Montauk console this weekend for an additional battery. Cutting a template to match the size of the Battery Box to be used helped a great deal.
I already had a Group 24 for the starter battery. I'm adding a large Group 27 for a trolling motor battery. Will use a switch as well so that they can be combined and interchanged. (Heading to West tonight to see what they have).
I ran heavy guage battery cables through the tunnel a couple years ago to the engine starter. Will run a slightly smaller guage for the trolling motor. Also plan to run all my "house" circuits off the larger battery.
Ll.
Bulldog posted 03-17-2009 05:43 PM ET (US)
Hey Skip, welcome to almost Spring! I would keep the battery systems seperate like Buckda says, tying two voltage regulators together is never a good thing. The "New Dual" is what I'm planning on doing in the next month or so, I think I have enough wire to set you up also, I'll take some measurements and let you know soon....Jack
hauptjm posted 03-17-2009 08:14 PM ET (US)
I'm curious what the maximum distance would be that one could move their batteries away from the engine before the batteries would start to become less effective and efficient? Do you have to increase the wire gauge to have a consistency of resistance? Just curious!
HAPPYJIM posted 03-17-2009 08:34 PM ET (US)
It is the voltage drop that is key in keeping enough power available to start the motor. The bigger the wire the less the voltage drop will be. Electrical theory is very involved to even touch on here. There are places online to read piles of info but most are hard to understand if you don't have some electrical know how. Here's a simple one that could turn you to heavy drinking.
http://www.bdbatteries.com/wirerules.php
If the existing wire is heavy enough, you may be able to splice another section to make it the proper length. Some times it's better to just buy new wire that is the proper length and not worry about splicing.
I'm sure there will be all kinds of different ideas and methods that will follow.
Smithsm posted 03-17-2009 09:20 PM ET (US)
Thanks everyone for the help
and
Jack......., as usual..., YOU DA MAN !!!!!
Bulldog posted 03-22-2009 08:09 AM ET (US)
Skip, the wire I have is 1/0 Marine grade (red 100'), couple thoughts:
1.) using the "New Dual" system you could possibly use a single negative conductor to go from console to a location at motors to split to each, it is the same point electrically if done at console or at rear of boat.
2.) The positive cables would need to be isolated from each other until landed on the battery switch, you can do this with running a total of three battery cables from console to rear.
3.) It's too damn cold to work on the boat yet, but a quick look, I might need about 65 feet total, my wire is all red, but it sure looks like we will be able to provide the two positive cables and maybe even all three that you need!
4.) Do some rough mesurements on what you think you need, I'll be able to help with the splicing, it's what I do!
..........Jack
jimh posted 03-22-2009 08:47 AM ET (US)
Let me comment on this in two regards, electrical and naval:
ELECTRICAL:
The size of the wire connecting the engine starter motor to the battery is chosen with regard to two requirements:
--the current capacity of the wire has to be sufficiently large to carry the current drawn by the starter motor, and
--the voltage drop in the wire has to sufficiently small to provide proper voltage needed by the starter motor.
As the length of the cable is increased, the influence of the voltage drop overtakes the influence of the current capacity, and you end up with conductors whose size is quite large compared to that used in shorter cables. The only downside to using large cables is the high cost of the copper wire.
In general electrical considerations it is best to have the cranking battery located as close to the engine starter motor as possible, however, it can be moved farther away if the proper allowance is made for the voltage drop in the cables
NAVAL:
Moving weight out of the stern of a Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 20 that has twin outboard engines may be a good idea with regard to the performance of the hull, particularly with regard to its transition to plane and its dynamic stability when on plane. The Boston Whaler 20-foot hull seems to have a tendency to like to run on plane at a bit of a higher planing angle than some of the other hulls, and moving some weight forward might help hold than tendency in check a bit.

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 20: Moving Batteries to Center Console
Smithsm	posted 03-17-2009 11:52 AM ET (US) I plan to move my two batteries into the center console on my 1988 Outrage 20. I have twin outboards and there is a lot of weight in the stern - I would like to even it out a bit. My first-pass plan is to go from twin or seperate battery leads to each engine to one much thicker single lead from the twin batteries in the center console and use one of those red switches to link the two batteries through the switch in the center console to the thick single wire back to both engines. I know I need to support the underside of the center console to the deck--someone did this by slipping in a 4"X4" treated lumber underneath. I will either do this or simply cut out the floor of the center console so the batteries are sitting directly on the deck but held in place in the plastic battery box by the precise size of the opening. Has anyone done a similar modification? Any comments, warnings or advice would be appreciated.
Tohsgib	posted 03-17-2009 12:03 PM ET (US) The decks in my Montauk's were cut by the factory to fit a battery box which the battery slid into. I never used the lids as they were out of the weather.
Buckda	posted 03-17-2009 12:51 PM ET (US) I have a hole in the floor of my console that accomodates both batteries to sit on the deck. I used foam pipe insulation to "edge" the holes - this keeps the plastic boxes from "cricketing" (annoying noise) due to vibration or wave action, and has the added benefit to keep small items (screws) from falling to the deck if they get loose in the console. That is also handy when changing electrical connections, etc in the console, as sometimes those small screws/washers get away from you - this way, they're in the console still, and you can find them much more easily. I don't agree with your proposed wiring configuration, however. It is far better to go with the “’New’ dual engine, dual battery” configuration outlined here: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/graphics/newWiring600x400.gif This is simple to operate and easy to install, however, it does call for four (4) heavy battery cables running through the rigging tunnel. I use this configuration on my 18’ Outrage. A complete article on this topic is here: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html
Landlocked	posted 03-17-2009 02:18 PM ET (US) I actually cut the floor out of my Montauk console this weekend for an additional battery. Cutting a template to match the size of the Battery Box to be used helped a great deal. I already had a Group 24 for the starter battery. I'm adding a large Group 27 for a trolling motor battery. Will use a switch as well so that they can be combined and interchanged. (Heading to West tonight to see what they have). I ran heavy guage battery cables through the tunnel a couple years ago to the engine starter. Will run a slightly smaller guage for the trolling motor. Also plan to run all my "house" circuits off the larger battery. Ll.
Bulldog	posted 03-17-2009 05:43 PM ET (US) Hey Skip, welcome to almost Spring! I would keep the battery systems seperate like Buckda says, tying two voltage regulators together is never a good thing. The "New Dual" is what I'm planning on doing in the next month or so, I think I have enough wire to set you up also, I'll take some measurements and let you know soon....Jack
hauptjm	posted 03-17-2009 08:14 PM ET (US) I'm curious what the maximum distance would be that one could move their batteries away from the engine before the batteries would start to become less effective and efficient? Do you have to increase the wire gauge to have a consistency of resistance? Just curious!
HAPPYJIM	posted 03-17-2009 08:34 PM ET (US) It is the voltage drop that is key in keeping enough power available to start the motor. The bigger the wire the less the voltage drop will be. Electrical theory is very involved to even touch on here. There are places online to read piles of info but most are hard to understand if you don't have some electrical know how. Here's a simple one that could turn you to heavy drinking. http://www.bdbatteries.com/wirerules.php If the existing wire is heavy enough, you may be able to splice another section to make it the proper length. Some times it's better to just buy new wire that is the proper length and not worry about splicing. I'm sure there will be all kinds of different ideas and methods that will follow.
Smithsm	posted 03-17-2009 09:20 PM ET (US) Thanks everyone for the help and Jack......., as usual..., YOU DA MAN !!!!!
Bulldog	posted 03-22-2009 08:09 AM ET (US) Skip, the wire I have is 1/0 Marine grade (red 100'), couple thoughts: 1.) using the "New Dual" system you could possibly use a single negative conductor to go from console to a location at motors to split to each, it is the same point electrically if done at console or at rear of boat. 2.) The positive cables would need to be isolated from each other until landed on the battery switch, you can do this with running a total of three battery cables from console to rear. 3.) It's too damn cold to work on the boat yet, but a quick look, I might need about 65 feet total, my wire is all red, but it sure looks like we will be able to provide the two positive cables and maybe even all three that you need! 4.) Do some rough mesurements on what you think you need, I'll be able to help with the splicing, it's what I do! ..........Jack
jimh	posted 03-22-2009 08:47 AM ET (US) Let me comment on this in two regards, electrical and naval: ELECTRICAL: The size of the wire connecting the engine starter motor to the battery is chosen with regard to two requirements: --the current capacity of the wire has to be sufficiently large to carry the current drawn by the starter motor, and --the voltage drop in the wire has to sufficiently small to provide proper voltage needed by the starter motor. As the length of the cable is increased, the influence of the voltage drop overtakes the influence of the current capacity, and you end up with conductors whose size is quite large compared to that used in shorter cables. The only downside to using large cables is the high cost of the copper wire. In general electrical considerations it is best to have the cranking battery located as close to the engine starter motor as possible, however, it can be moved farther away if the proper allowance is made for the voltage drop in the cables NAVAL: Moving weight out of the stern of a Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 20 that has twin outboard engines may be a good idea with regard to the performance of the hull, particularly with regard to its transition to plane and its dynamic stability when on plane. The Boston Whaler 20-foot hull seems to have a tendency to like to run on plane at a bit of a higher planing angle than some of the other hulls, and moving some weight forward might help hold than tendency in check a bit.