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Author Topic:   Making Tall Poles For Lamps

cdnwhaler posted 05-19-2009 08:22 PM ET (US)
Before I go bite the bullet and buy a ridiculously tall [pole for a lamp] for my 1984 Outrage 22 so it can be seen over all the canvas, has anyone come across a better way. Like maybe a folding one that folds into 3 or 4 pieces.
Excluding the purchase of a radar arch.
Thanks
Peter
efduffer posted 05-19-2009 10:42 PM ET (US)
This is a cheap and cheesy way to do it.
I bought a length of 1" (I think) dia pole at Home Depot, the stuff you use in closets for hangar runs.
Then I bought a stand-alone LED anchor light kit at the boat store, the kind that runs on AA's and clamps onto about anything.
Bored out a mounting hole in the end of the pole, cross-drilled to run the fastening screw, then cut it to the length I wanted (6 ft). Sanded, stained, and sealed.
It sits in the rod holders under the gunwales unless in use and is only used when anchored, using the standard [pole] holder. Otherwise I use regular [sternlight] when running.
cdnwhaler posted 05-20-2009 08:30 AM ET (US)
That's pretty much what I thought I'd have to do efduffer. Make my own.
The question has been asked over the years and I thought maybe someone had found a solve by now. well it turns out there is a solve. An easy one too.
Thanks for links JimD.

Attwood makes a folding [lamp] now
http://tiny.cc/attwood263
And so does Perko
http://gator49.hostgator.com/~zeromyst/ecatalog/index. php?cPath=213_51_103_108&sort=products_sort_order&page=4

Tom W Clark posted 05-20-2009 12:41 PM ET (US)
Peter -- Good luck with that Attwood folding pole light. The light pole on my Revenge Walk Through was 100" long. Even if the 84" model of the Attwood folding pole light will suffice on your 22, there is no way it will survive.
The pole appears to be made of 3/4" anodized aluminum. Even the wind resistance on that length of pole will destroy the wimpy little mounting socket if it doesn't bend the pole itself.
There was a very good reason why Whaler used 1-1/4" diameter aluminum or stainless steel tubing for their tall poles.
cdnwhaler posted 05-20-2009 01:24 PM ET (US)
I'm worried about that too Tom.
I've not measured but I think a 60 inch height will get the light higher than the fly top. I base this on the fact I'm 74 inches tall and barely fit under the fly top and the gunwale is about 18 inches off the floor I think. Even so 60 inches may be too tall for the strength of the pole, the wind, and a good chop to the water.
Yours is 100? Wow.

Buckda posted 05-20-2009 01:47 PM ET (US)
Peter – this is an excellent question. Well played on the “not a radar arch” stipulation, as my radar arch was essentially a very expensive solution to this very problem.
First, you’ll need to re-wire your lighting so that you do not have a “masthead” light anymore (I used mine as “cabin lights” - wired it to another circuit).
You can get beefy piping by using a chain-link fence post. Available at Home Depot, etc. If you work at it, you could cut the pipe into three pieces and then place a smaller diameter “sleeve” pipe spot-welded inside, then through-drill a hole for a pin so you can break the pipe down into sections for storage, but still erect a sturdy, hollow mast on which to mount the lamp.
It starts to get Rube Goldberg pretty quickly – but if functional, I guess no one can argue (too loudly)!
Incidentally, I'd mount it to the INside of the gunwale with the bottom resting on a "pad" in the splashwell - so you need at least 80 inches.

efduffer posted 05-20-2009 02:59 PM ET (US)
One advantage to my creation is that the LED unit is a sealed design and the pole is wood. If it goes over for some reason, it floats. It's also sturdy and cheap, er, inexpensive.
Buckda posted 05-20-2009 04:53 PM ET (US)
Efduffer -
For some reason, when I read your post, I was thinking you were talking about a metal pole.
Now that I know you are talking about wood, I am intrigued. Is the lamp battery operated, or did you cut a channel to route some wires?
Interesting solution - and I bet it looks great.
Dave
cdnwhaler posted 05-20-2009 07:40 PM ET (US)
Except for efduffer, you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
This is a solution so I can travel into a very busy Toronto harbour and be legal at night for dinner ... with a hot date.
Up north in the boonies the CG don't give a [moose scat] that I've ever noticed. Cripes, remember I live in north Canada, not downtown Miami. efduffer's idea of using a piece of dowling is perfect if only I could figure a way to hinge the doweling so it breaks down into shorter lengths for easier storage.
I like the way efduffer thinks but I gotta go right now.
Pete
Tom W Clark posted 05-20-2009 08:39 PM ET (US)
Don't hinge it, sleeve it. Think of two pieces with a slip joint in between them.
Hell, just get some PVC pipe and a coupling and leave one side of the coupling a dry fit.
Or a robust tent pole with a bungee cord inside so it snaps together by itself and pulls apart easily.
Or how about taking that one step further. A tall light will be vulnerable to breaking of the tubing or pole use to make it is thin and weak. How about a bungee cord connected sections that will collapse on their own if too much lateral pressure is put on it? That way it would be nearly break-proof.
efduffer posted 05-20-2009 09:35 PM ET (US)
Dave,
Yes, the lamp is a self-contained 4 AA unit. Think of the kind that you would put on a kayak, etc.

Peter,
As far as making it break down, how about routing out a hole 'almost' large enough in diameter for a nut in the bottom of the section holding the light (or better yet, use a coupling nut), shoot epoxy into the hole and hammer the nut/coupler in flush with the end. Then do the same with the matching bolt in the top end of the lower half of the staff, leaving enough exposed to get a good connection. Simply screw them together and you have whatever overall length you wanted. That's why I'd go with a coupling nut, much longer run and more secure.
Putting the nut in the bottom of the top half allows you to use it safely without gouging your deck if you don't want/need it full height, or something happens to the lower section.
For storage I would probably use a stainless screw to fasten a length of double-sided velcro at two different points on the upper section so you could use it to bind them to each other. Kinda like they do on sleeping rolls, etc. Maybe notch out a groove for each strap on the 'free' section so the strap would have a recess to lay in and not allow it to slide in and out. Just one idea.
jimh posted 05-20-2009 10:58 PM ET (US)
I don't see much electrical topic in this discussion; I will move it to REPAIRS/MODS.
To make telescoping masts using aluminum tubing, order the tubing with a wall thickness of 0.058-inch. Order the tubing in size increments of 0.125-inch. These tubes will all nicely telescope into each other. Radio amateurs have been building antenna structures using aluminum tubing with these dimensions for years.
I have an ALL-ROUND WHITE LIGHT showing from atop a very tall mast at the stern of my 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T WD. As I recall the mast is over eight feet in length. I also believe it is made from steel, as it is chrome plated. I typically keep it stowed unless needed.
jimh posted 05-20-2009 11:17 PM ET (US)
Move to REPAIRS/MODS.
WhalerAce posted 05-21-2009 09:22 AM ET (US)
For a telescoping unit, why not just buy a boat hook? With Boater's World going out of business, I got two for $15. They are twelve feet long, extended.
You can surely use that as a start.
--- WhalerAce
Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2009 10:22 AM ET (US)
A telescoping aluminum boat hook. Brilliant! And it comes anodized to boot.
Unfortunately it will not accommodate a light that is hardwired; you cannot run wire inside a telescoping boat hook because of the cams that lock and unlock the sections.
jechura posted 05-21-2009 12:15 PM ET (US)
Or you could use a telescoping painters pole with exterior cam locks.
pglein posted 05-21-2009 12:46 PM ET (US)
You're talking about a anchor light, right? That will only be used occasionally, correct?
Why not just carry some electrical tape and strap a battery operated light to your VHF antenna when anchoring overnight?
cdnwhaler posted 05-21-2009 01:25 PM ET (US)
I think we're almost there.
I already have the telescoping boat hook, and the painter's telescoping pole too, which is far more rigid and tough than the boat hook if that becomes a concern.
I was searching portable nav lights this morning and here's one of many. This one happens to be at Basspro
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ Product_10151_-1_10001_104339_225005000_225000000_225005000_225-5-0
I think for my purpose just tape the light to the boat hook and call it a day. I like the idea I already have the boat hook on board anyway.
pglein, no not just an anchor light. Athough it would solve that easily as well. I need something I can have up for running at night.
Thanks all.
Buckda posted 05-21-2009 03:53 PM ET (US)
Peter - for where you boat...at night (and believe me, I did operate my 18 in the middle of the night on an approach to St. Amant's Marina)...you had better have a very strong spotlight and an excellent GPS - MUCH more important than lights!!
Talk about unnerving nighttime operation! Those shoals are solid granite and the channels are narrow....
pglein posted 05-21-2009 04:37 PM ET (US)
I just reviewed the COLREGS and it does appear that the stern light alone no longer complies for boats under 12 meters. I guess I had read this before but was confused. At some point, the mast light on my Outrage's center console was removed. I will have to pick up a new one.
Stevebaz posted 05-21-2009 06:13 PM ET (US)
How about the collapsing pole used in tree trimmers pole saws. Its a hollow fiberglass pole with an external compression ring to extend or collapse the pole. As close as your local home depot and they take alot of abuse.
Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2009 06:32 PM ET (US)
Peter -- Yes, that battery operated light would be the ticket on a pole. If the diameter of the pole were 1-1/4" you would even be able to use the stern light mounting hardware you have now.
R T M posted 05-21-2009 06:38 PM ET (US)
If your fishing at night the light at the masthead should be green over white. That's the only thing I retained from when I took the six pack licence 25 years ago. That could mean commercial fishing only, who knows,
rich/Binkie
cdnwhaler posted 05-21-2009 06:54 PM ET (US)
pglein
Our regs say you may have a masthead light amidships with a 360 light and no stern light. You may also have a mast head light with a stern light so long as the total available white light is 360 degrees.
I can also have only a stern light with a 360 degree white light but there seems to be a discrepancy on where that light should be mounted. Either centerline or to one side. In the USA it must be on the centerline if your red/green nav lights are sidelights versus both mounted together as a single unit on the bow. On a vintage Outrage 22 we have sidelights so permantly mounting a single white light in the center of the boat in the stern may be a pain in the you know what.
All the more reason I like the boat hook idea.
I've called our "reg people" in the government with the questions. The answewrs should be interesting.
fla656 posted 05-21-2009 07:00 PM ET (US)
I have a aprox. 6ft stern light pole I bought from the B/W commercial products division. If your interested I dig it out and measure it (If you dont mind that its black in color). I never used it.
cdnwhaler posted 05-21-2009 07:17 PM ET (US)
A painters pole extension is much closer to the 1-1/4" Tom, where as a boat hook, well my boat hook at least, is much smaller in diameter so it wouldn't work well in the existing light hardware without some persuasion.
I have mistakenly always thought of my Outrage 22 falling in the Under 12m catagory. The nice young lady at Transport Canada informed me today 22ft is 6.7 meters and for some boating regs there's an under 7m catagory.
BTW. The young lady I spoke with at TC works in the Sarnia office across the river from Port Huron MI. She grew up in Boston Whalers. And most were all over 20 ft. I wonder if she's related to that dfMcIntyre guy in Port Huron?
Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2009 07:28 PM ET (US)
The navigation light requirements are International.
An all-round white light may be used alone *and* mounted off-center if, and only if, the port and starboard side lights are combined. This is for vessels less than 12 meters, or almost every Whaler ever made.
Hair splitting, I know, but that's the law...which I ignored when I made a tall all-round light for my Outrage 18 in lieu of the stupid stern light plus masthead light in the console (or more accurately, in your face).

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Author	Topic: Making Tall Poles For Lamps
cdnwhaler	posted 05-19-2009 08:22 PM ET (US) Before I go bite the bullet and buy a ridiculously tall [pole for a lamp] for my 1984 Outrage 22 so it can be seen over all the canvas, has anyone come across a better way. Like maybe a folding one that folds into 3 or 4 pieces. Excluding the purchase of a radar arch. Thanks Peter
efduffer	posted 05-19-2009 10:42 PM ET (US) This is a cheap and cheesy way to do it. I bought a length of 1" (I think) dia pole at Home Depot, the stuff you use in closets for hangar runs. Then I bought a stand-alone LED anchor light kit at the boat store, the kind that runs on AA's and clamps onto about anything. Bored out a mounting hole in the end of the pole, cross-drilled to run the fastening screw, then cut it to the length I wanted (6 ft). Sanded, stained, and sealed. It sits in the rod holders under the gunwales unless in use and is only used when anchored, using the standard [pole] holder. Otherwise I use regular [sternlight] when running.
cdnwhaler	posted 05-20-2009 08:30 AM ET (US) That's pretty much what I thought I'd have to do efduffer. Make my own. The question has been asked over the years and I thought maybe someone had found a solve by now. well it turns out there is a solve. An easy one too. Thanks for links JimD. Attwood makes a folding [lamp] now http://tiny.cc/attwood263 And so does Perko http://gator49.hostgator.com/~zeromyst/ecatalog/index. php?cPath=213_51_103_108&sort=products_sort_order&page=4
Tom W Clark	posted 05-20-2009 12:41 PM ET (US) Peter -- Good luck with that Attwood folding pole light. The light pole on my Revenge Walk Through was 100" long. Even if the 84" model of the Attwood folding pole light will suffice on your 22, there is no way it will survive. The pole appears to be made of 3/4" anodized aluminum. Even the wind resistance on that length of pole will destroy the wimpy little mounting socket if it doesn't bend the pole itself. There was a very good reason why Whaler used 1-1/4" diameter aluminum or stainless steel tubing for their tall poles.
cdnwhaler	posted 05-20-2009 01:24 PM ET (US) I'm worried about that too Tom. I've not measured but I think a 60 inch height will get the light higher than the fly top. I base this on the fact I'm 74 inches tall and barely fit under the fly top and the gunwale is about 18 inches off the floor I think. Even so 60 inches may be too tall for the strength of the pole, the wind, and a good chop to the water. Yours is 100? Wow.
Buckda	posted 05-20-2009 01:47 PM ET (US) Peter – this is an excellent question. Well played on the “not a radar arch” stipulation, as my radar arch was essentially a very expensive solution to this very problem. First, you’ll need to re-wire your lighting so that you do not have a “masthead” light anymore (I used mine as “cabin lights” - wired it to another circuit). You can get beefy piping by using a chain-link fence post. Available at Home Depot, etc. If you work at it, you could cut the pipe into three pieces and then place a smaller diameter “sleeve” pipe spot-welded inside, then through-drill a hole for a pin so you can break the pipe down into sections for storage, but still erect a sturdy, hollow mast on which to mount the lamp. It starts to get Rube Goldberg pretty quickly – but if functional, I guess no one can argue (too loudly)! Incidentally, I'd mount it to the INside of the gunwale with the bottom resting on a "pad" in the splashwell - so you need at least 80 inches.
efduffer	posted 05-20-2009 02:59 PM ET (US) One advantage to my creation is that the LED unit is a sealed design and the pole is wood. If it goes over for some reason, it floats. It's also sturdy and cheap, er, inexpensive.
Buckda	posted 05-20-2009 04:53 PM ET (US) Efduffer - For some reason, when I read your post, I was thinking you were talking about a metal pole. Now that I know you are talking about wood, I am intrigued. Is the lamp battery operated, or did you cut a channel to route some wires? Interesting solution - and I bet it looks great. Dave
cdnwhaler	posted 05-20-2009 07:40 PM ET (US) Except for efduffer, you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. This is a solution so I can travel into a very busy Toronto harbour and be legal at night for dinner ... with a hot date. Up north in the boonies the CG don't give a [moose scat] that I've ever noticed. Cripes, remember I live in north Canada, not downtown Miami. efduffer's idea of using a piece of dowling is perfect if only I could figure a way to hinge the doweling so it breaks down into shorter lengths for easier storage. I like the way efduffer thinks but I gotta go right now. Pete
Tom W Clark	posted 05-20-2009 08:39 PM ET (US) Don't hinge it, sleeve it. Think of two pieces with a slip joint in between them. Hell, just get some PVC pipe and a coupling and leave one side of the coupling a dry fit. Or a robust tent pole with a bungee cord inside so it snaps together by itself and pulls apart easily. Or how about taking that one step further. A tall light will be vulnerable to breaking of the tubing or pole use to make it is thin and weak. How about a bungee cord connected sections that will collapse on their own if too much lateral pressure is put on it? That way it would be nearly break-proof.
efduffer	posted 05-20-2009 09:35 PM ET (US) Dave, Yes, the lamp is a self-contained 4 AA unit. Think of the kind that you would put on a kayak, etc. Peter, As far as making it break down, how about routing out a hole 'almost' large enough in diameter for a nut in the bottom of the section holding the light (or better yet, use a coupling nut), shoot epoxy into the hole and hammer the nut/coupler in flush with the end. Then do the same with the matching bolt in the top end of the lower half of the staff, leaving enough exposed to get a good connection. Simply screw them together and you have whatever overall length you wanted. That's why I'd go with a coupling nut, much longer run and more secure. Putting the nut in the bottom of the top half allows you to use it safely without gouging your deck if you don't want/need it full height, or something happens to the lower section. For storage I would probably use a stainless screw to fasten a length of double-sided velcro at two different points on the upper section so you could use it to bind them to each other. Kinda like they do on sleeping rolls, etc. Maybe notch out a groove for each strap on the 'free' section so the strap would have a recess to lay in and not allow it to slide in and out. Just one idea.
jimh	posted 05-20-2009 10:58 PM ET (US) I don't see much electrical topic in this discussion; I will move it to REPAIRS/MODS. To make telescoping masts using aluminum tubing, order the tubing with a wall thickness of 0.058-inch. Order the tubing in size increments of 0.125-inch. These tubes will all nicely telescope into each other. Radio amateurs have been building antenna structures using aluminum tubing with these dimensions for years. I have an ALL-ROUND WHITE LIGHT showing from atop a very tall mast at the stern of my 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T WD. As I recall the mast is over eight feet in length. I also believe it is made from steel, as it is chrome plated. I typically keep it stowed unless needed.
jimh	posted 05-20-2009 11:17 PM ET (US) Move to REPAIRS/MODS.
WhalerAce	posted 05-21-2009 09:22 AM ET (US) For a telescoping unit, why not just buy a boat hook? With Boater's World going out of business, I got two for $15. They are twelve feet long, extended. You can surely use that as a start. --- WhalerAce
Tom W Clark	posted 05-21-2009 10:22 AM ET (US) A telescoping aluminum boat hook. Brilliant! And it comes anodized to boot. Unfortunately it will not accommodate a light that is hardwired; you cannot run wire inside a telescoping boat hook because of the cams that lock and unlock the sections.
jechura	posted 05-21-2009 12:15 PM ET (US) Or you could use a telescoping painters pole with exterior cam locks.
pglein	posted 05-21-2009 12:46 PM ET (US) You're talking about a anchor light, right? That will only be used occasionally, correct? Why not just carry some electrical tape and strap a battery operated light to your VHF antenna when anchoring overnight?
cdnwhaler	posted 05-21-2009 01:25 PM ET (US) I think we're almost there. I already have the telescoping boat hook, and the painter's telescoping pole too, which is far more rigid and tough than the boat hook if that becomes a concern. I was searching portable nav lights this morning and here's one of many. This one happens to be at Basspro http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ Product_10151_-1_10001_104339_225005000_225000000_225005000_225-5-0 I think for my purpose just tape the light to the boat hook and call it a day. I like the idea I already have the boat hook on board anyway. pglein, no not just an anchor light. Athough it would solve that easily as well. I need something I can have up for running at night. Thanks all.
Buckda	posted 05-21-2009 03:53 PM ET (US) Peter - for where you boat...at night (and believe me, I did operate my 18 in the middle of the night on an approach to St. Amant's Marina)...you had better have a very strong spotlight and an excellent GPS - MUCH more important than lights!! Talk about unnerving nighttime operation! Those shoals are solid granite and the channels are narrow....
pglein	posted 05-21-2009 04:37 PM ET (US) I just reviewed the COLREGS and it does appear that the stern light alone no longer complies for boats under 12 meters. I guess I had read this before but was confused. At some point, the mast light on my Outrage's center console was removed. I will have to pick up a new one.
Stevebaz	posted 05-21-2009 06:13 PM ET (US) How about the collapsing pole used in tree trimmers pole saws. Its a hollow fiberglass pole with an external compression ring to extend or collapse the pole. As close as your local home depot and they take alot of abuse.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-21-2009 06:32 PM ET (US) Peter -- Yes, that battery operated light would be the ticket on a pole. If the diameter of the pole were 1-1/4" you would even be able to use the stern light mounting hardware you have now.
R T M	posted 05-21-2009 06:38 PM ET (US) If your fishing at night the light at the masthead should be green over white. That's the only thing I retained from when I took the six pack licence 25 years ago. That could mean commercial fishing only, who knows, rich/Binkie
cdnwhaler	posted 05-21-2009 06:54 PM ET (US) pglein Our regs say you may have a masthead light amidships with a 360 light and no stern light. You may also have a mast head light with a stern light so long as the total available white light is 360 degrees. I can also have only a stern light with a 360 degree white light but there seems to be a discrepancy on where that light should be mounted. Either centerline or to one side. In the USA it must be on the centerline if your red/green nav lights are sidelights versus both mounted together as a single unit on the bow. On a vintage Outrage 22 we have sidelights so permantly mounting a single white light in the center of the boat in the stern may be a pain in the you know what. All the more reason I like the boat hook idea. I've called our "reg people" in the government with the questions. The answewrs should be interesting.
fla656	posted 05-21-2009 07:00 PM ET (US) I have a aprox. 6ft stern light pole I bought from the B/W commercial products division. If your interested I dig it out and measure it (If you dont mind that its black in color). I never used it.
cdnwhaler	posted 05-21-2009 07:17 PM ET (US) A painters pole extension is much closer to the 1-1/4" Tom, where as a boat hook, well my boat hook at least, is much smaller in diameter so it wouldn't work well in the existing light hardware without some persuasion. I have mistakenly always thought of my Outrage 22 falling in the Under 12m catagory. The nice young lady at Transport Canada informed me today 22ft is 6.7 meters and for some boating regs there's an under 7m catagory. BTW. The young lady I spoke with at TC works in the Sarnia office across the river from Port Huron MI. She grew up in Boston Whalers. And most were all over 20 ft. I wonder if she's related to that dfMcIntyre guy in Port Huron?
Tom W Clark	posted 05-21-2009 07:28 PM ET (US) The navigation light requirements are International. An all-round white light may be used alone and mounted off-center if, and only if, the port and starboard side lights are combined. This is for vessels less than 12 meters, or almost every Whaler ever made. Hair splitting, I know, but that's the law...which I ignored when I made a tall all-round light for my Outrage 18 in lieu of the stupid stern light plus masthead light in the console (or more accurately, in your face).