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Author Topic:   It's Always Something- frozen bolts
DeeVee posted 05-30-2009 11:14 PM ET (US)   Profile for DeeVee   Send Email to DeeVee  
Recently I noticed a small water leak from the port side exhaust cover gasket of the main engine, a 1992 200 Suzuki. I acquired the neccesary gaskets a couple of weeks ago so that I could pursue the repair when I had a little time.

Yesterday turned out to be the day I decided to perform the repair. I decided that I would remove the bolts that were the most difficult to access- sort of "eating my vegetables first", so to speak.

The lowest bolts are physically the most difficult to access. These two bolts eased out nicely. I thought- hmmmm, this is going to be a piece of cake. I should be done with enough time to take the boat out this afternoon, or at least tomorrow.

The next bolt up, was a different story. After the slightest movement, I applied a spray lube, AreoKroil, which I have used with pretty good success in the past. I worked the bolt, by alternately tighting and loosening as carefully as I could. But- to no avail.... snap!

Ouch, that hurt. The bolt hole is about an inch below the top of the lower cowl. There is absolutely no way to access the hole to drill and easy out the broken bolt without removing the power head.

Sooooo, long story short, the power head is sitting on a cart in my shop, awaiting the neccesary repair.

So far, three bolts are out clean, three bolts are broken off. I have broken most of the bolts loose, but there seems to be an accumulation of corrosion material on the head side of the bolts which are preventing the bolts from backing out.

As I said, it's always something- especially with nearly antique equipment.

If some of you could shed some tears in your beer for me, I would appreciate it very much.

Wish me luck,
Doug Vazquez

R T M posted 05-31-2009 07:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Doug, heat and PATIENCE. Soak the bolts overnight or every day, heat them with some MAP gas, and just try backing them out as you have been doing. Eventually the ones that will come out, you will have gotten them out. You can try an easy out on the broken ones, but if you break off the easy out in the hole, you are really screwed. I would just rather drill them out with the proper size cobalt drill bit, and then chase the newly drilled holes with a tap. Drill a pilot hole first,in the CENTER of the bolt,before using the actual size drill bit. You can tell when you go through the whole bolt, as there will be a little space at the bottom of the bolt. I have done this with a portable drill, not a drill press. Its takes a steady hand and some patience. Good luck.

rich/Binkie

deepwater posted 05-31-2009 07:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for deepwater  Send Email to deepwater     
It sounds like you have the proper attitude about you so,,Ill just sit here and cry a little in my cold beer for you as requested,,
Plotman posted 05-31-2009 12:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
Talk to a good mechanic, and find out who has a bolt desintegrator. It will be $50 or so, but they can eat out the bolt and leave the casting untouched.
R T M posted 05-31-2009 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
$50 for each bolt? Get out the drill.

rich/Binkie

R T M posted 05-31-2009 04:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Interesting
http://www.newmantools.com/electroarc/index.html

You can do the same thing with a carbide drill bit on a small bolt, but use plenty of cutting oil and don`t break of the drill bit or you will need one of these machines.

rich/Binkie

jechura posted 05-31-2009 06:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for jechura  Send Email to jechura     
Doug. About 4 years ago I had a similar problem with my old Johnson 235. One of the gaskets on the exhaust covers was spraying water from the top towards the ignition system. Like your problem, no amount of tightening would solve the problem. Stop up to Lockmans and ask Dave if their was a easy way to remove the covers. His answer was nope, you have to remove the power head. However he said if you remove any protruding gasket material at the leak and 2 to 3 inches on each side and clean the casting to white metal, J B WELD it, the problem should be solved.

Haven't had a leak since. Jerry

modenacart posted 05-31-2009 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for modenacart  Send Email to modenacart     
You can use unflavored milk of magnesia on the bolt threads as an anti-seize when you put them back in. We use it all the time on combustor bolts for jet engines.
deepwater posted 05-31-2009 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for deepwater  Send Email to deepwater     
If you by chance do break off an easy out or a drill bit,,the use of small finishing nails that fit down into the flutes will crack the brittle high carbon steel and you can pull out the chunks with a vac,,you will use alot of nails ,,works on taps as well
DeeVee posted 05-31-2009 10:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeeVee  Send Email to DeeVee     
Guys,

Thanks for the tips and encouragement.

Jerry,

I sure wish I posted the question before I ended up in this predicament.

Any more words of experience? I'll take all I can get.

Doug Vazquez

DeeVee posted 06-20-2009 07:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeeVee  Send Email to DeeVee     
The saga is complete.

A friend of mine knows of a small machine shop that specializes in removal of siezed bolts. Learing of this, I decided to continue with the removal of the seized bolts as best I could. I felt I did pretty well, considering. Of eighteen bolts, I was able to remove all but fourteen:). The rest broke off, no matter how gentle and patient I was.

I drained all the gasoline from the carbs and fuel filter, removed the oil tank and capped the oil lines and fuel lines. I delivered the power head to the shop on a Friday.

They had it ready for pick up the following Monday. The removal cost was $200. I picked up the power head last Thursday and worked the weekend preparing the exhaust cover and plate to receive the new gaskets, as well as the base of the powerhead and the top of the exhaust adapter plate. I reassembled the exhaust housing and the powerhead was ready to re-install.

Yesterday, after finishing my chores, I re-mounted the power head. Today I reconnected all the wiring, and control cables. About an hour ago, I opened the oil pump air bleed screw and started the engine. With the air bled from the oil injection system, I tightened the bleed screw and rebolted the oil tank. The old girl purred like a kitten.

It is nice having that little project complete. It did not turn out to be nearly as bad as it could have been. Learning of a shop that specializes in removal of siezed bolts really helped. $200 was money well spent, considering how badly I probably would have screwed things up trying to drill them out myself.

If anyone in the South Puget Sound region needs something like this done, the name of the company is Loder and Company, Olympia, Washington. A simple Google search will locate their phone number.

In hingsight, if I had asked around a little, I would probably have tried to patch the water leak with JB Weld as mentioned in a reply above, before attempting to replace the gaskets. This repair could easily have cost more than the 18 year old outboad is worth, if I had the local Suzuki dealer handle it.

On the other hand, having completed the project, it was interesting having had the machine apart, actually seeing and understanding the inner workings of it. These old two strokes are extremely simple machines.

As my wife noted, I may actually like doing this kind of thing. She may be right, but I am sure I like using the boat more than working on it.

As much as I hate to say it, I think it is time to start budgeting a future repower.

Doug

R T M posted 06-20-2009 09:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Its great when things work out well. The old rule applies
EFFORT=RESULTS. You certainly put in the effort, and your results are your reward.

rich/Binkie

DeeVee posted 06-21-2009 09:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeeVee  Send Email to DeeVee     
Rich,

I appreciate the thought. Certainly a good way to look at it.

Thank you,

Doug

number9 posted 06-22-2009 01:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for number9  Send Email to number9     
Glad things worked out.

For you and others a simple method of breaking loose screws and bolts with machine type threads. Many times they can be broken loose with a little "righty tighty". First used it removing screws from access panels to prevent stripping the heads. Later tried the same on bolts in threaded hole and can't remember breaking one since.

Phil T posted 06-22-2009 09:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Phil T  Send Email to Phil T     
Doug-

Glad to read your back in business!

R T M posted 06-22-2009 08:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Your method might work on access panels, but removing an exhaust manifold from any outboard is a whole nother story, as anyone who has done this can attest to. Especially an engine used in salt water.

rich/Binkie

DeeVee posted 06-22-2009 09:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for DeeVee  Send Email to DeeVee     
I used the righty-tighty method to try and break things loose. I had good success with the engine holder bolts (10 MM bolt diameter) using the "turn a tiny bit tighter to break it loose before you try to loosen it" method.

However, the 6 MM bolts of the exhaust manifold were not up to the torque that the corrosion was able to withstand.

Another interesting note. The diameter of the holes that the bolt went through before threading into the base metal was, in both cases, larger than the bolt shank. The holes were just slightly larger than the threads of the bolts. I assume this allows for some expansion and contraction movement during heating/cooling cycles.

This extra space between the bolt shank and the hole walls allows corrosion to build up inside the hole, between the hole wall and the bolt shank. So even with the bolt totally free from the threads of the powerhead, some of the bolts required a lot of torque to overcome the corrosion.

I spent over 6 hours removing the bolts from the theadless holes of the engine holder and the broken bolts from the exhaust manifold water jacket plate.

Not very technically difficult work, just plain old hard work.

Doug

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