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Author Topic:   Caulk

Bogan posted 06-29-2009 06:02 AM ET (US)
I have a 1987 Outrage 20 and it looks like the caulk between the floor panels has deteriorated to the point that it cannot be water tight. How do I correct this? Is it DIY like a bathroom tub? Or do I need a professional? Do I need to do it Asap or season's end? Any advice or shared experience is appreciated.
Thanks!
Slippery Eel posted 06-29-2009 07:21 AM ET (US)
You can probally wait till the season is over. You will need to remove all of the old caulk. Contact Sue Lodel at Twin Cities Marine. (contact is in the reference section). They stock the caulk you can use for the deck. Don't use silicone caulk as it has a tendancy to collect mold and is a pain to remove down the road.
R T M posted 06-29-2009 07:29 AM ET (US)
A professional caulker would be a house painter, certainly no one in the marine, marina, RV business. I`m sure you can do it. The difficult thing is to get the joint clean to start with. 5200 is very difficult to work with, and the joint is permanently sealed, maybe not a good thing. 4200 is a little easier but still relativity difficult, but not as permanent. An easier choice but still a good caulk, is exterior window and door caulk. Make sure it is silicone AND adhesive based. All these products are available from Home Depot. Cut the tube at a slight angle and lay down a thin even bead. Then immediately wet your finger with saliva and smooth out the bead. The caulk will not stick to your finger with the saliva, so you can keep repeating this process. If the bead is so wide that when you smooth it you wind up with ridges on each side, your screwed and won`t have a good joint. A little practice makes perfect, and yes I was a pro house painter among other things, frame and trim carpenter, fiberglass guy, roofer, only an amature boat builder.
rich/Binkie
R T M posted 06-29-2009 07:40 AM ET (US)
Don`t use strictly silicone caulk. It is not adhesive, and can`t be smoothed in the above manner, and will conduct mildew. I never found a use for that stuff.
rich/Binkie
Bogan posted 06-29-2009 09:23 AM ET (US)
Thanks!
Jeff posted 06-29-2009 11:05 AM ET (US)
You want to use a polysulfide caulk to seal the gap between the floor and the rest of the hull. Polysulfide caulk provides a great amount of flex and give over many years. Thus reducing the amount of cracking and release you get from others that dry up and become brittle after a short life on the sun. I used "BoatLife" for this job when I rebuild my outrage's floor 4 years ago and it really worked well. The white color will quickly change to a off white in the first year of use to match the desert tan well.
Jeff posted 06-29-2009 11:18 AM ET (US)
BTW,
A trick I learned since was to lay 30 - 40lbs this fishing line in this gap before you caulk. Leave a length of it hanging out in the rigging tunnel sump area and if you ever need to get the floor back up just pull the line and it will cut the caulk for you to release for floor.
Also, I put painters tape on both sides of the gap before caulking. This allows you to put in a nice bead of caulk, smooth it out with your finger like RTM says, then remove the tape. It will save you A LOT of clean up.
Finally, you do not really need a caulk that is an adhesive. You want a sealant and this is why I recommend a polysulfide. Since the floor is being held in place by screws and not the caulk, an adhesive is redundant and much more of a pain to remove at a later date I have found.
fishgutz posted 06-29-2009 12:32 PM ET (US)
Everyone gives great suggestions here. I like the fishing line idea and masking both sides of the joint. Another would be, if the groove or gap is deep lay a piece of "Foam Rope" in the groove to take up some room so you're not filling up a deep gap with lots of caulk.
The joint in the floor of my Dauntless 14 is about 1 to 1 1/4 inch deep. Foam Rope can be found at any hardware store or Home Depot or Lowes. It's Cheap.
Bogan posted 06-29-2009 02:48 PM ET (US)
Again, Thanks!
Bogan posted 06-29-2009 02:56 PM ET (US)
I guess I should ask, what do you guys think about the importance of this repair? Is is something that needs to be done ASAP, or season's end? Can water seep in and damage the hull/foam? With a bathtub you need to keep it dry for 24-48 hours; is it the same thing here? That could be difficult.
Jeff posted 06-29-2009 04:54 PM ET (US)
Even with newly sealed deck seams I still got water into the fuel tank cavity AGAIN after the first major rain storm and deck washing. So, it really is not going to hurt much if you wait until the end of the season. What ever damage that has been done is already done and a couple more month is not going to change much in the grand scheme of things.
I would be more worried about the true condition of the deck, water ready sitting around the fuel tank and the condition of the fuel tank. If you are going to recaulk the seam any way, do yourself a favor and pull up the deck to inspect all of those items. It will either be a vote of confidence or, you may find things you need to attend to.
Here is the article I wrote when I rebuilt my floor. It will give an idea what you are dealing with when it comes to the center fuel tank cavity and what lays below. Your 20 outrage has the same layout minus the rear fish well as my 22.
Page one:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html
Page two:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore2.html

Blackduck posted 06-29-2009 05:13 PM ET (US)
I think if the caulk is in a condition where it is not keeping water from entering the tank cavity, it should be repaired ASAP. This is not a hard job to do, and the risk of letting it go does not make sense to me. It's not like you can just dry out the foam once it gets wet.
Jeff posted 06-29-2009 07:40 PM ET (US)
Black,
like I stated before the caulking of this seam really does very littleour anything at all to keep water from entering into the fuel tank cavity. There are so many ways for water to enter the rigging tunnel that it is a losing battle. Once water is in there it is an easy transiton into the fuel tank cavity. Plus with this boat being 22 years old now I am sure the fuel tank cavity is already saturated. Thus waiting a couple months is not going to make that much difference in the end.
Bogan posted 06-29-2009 08:45 PM ET (US)
Jeff, Thanks for including pictures of your renovation. It was interesting to see. My question is, do you think all classic whalers need to undergo such elaborate and extensive repairs? Mine has been taken pretty good care of and I can't imagine I am alone in the deteriorating sealant dept? But I love this boat and plan to keep it until either it or I can no longer keep up.
From your pics it looks like more of a project than I am willing to undergo. Can you estimate the cost of opening it up and having it looked at and repaired if necessary? It is getting re-powered this week or next; is that the time to do it? But with a new motor it would be hard for it to sit on trailer while being fixed.
Blackduck posted 06-30-2009 10:03 AM ET (US)
Jeff,
I know what you are saying, and agree, but why not take care of something like this right away? It is easy to do, and he can just caulk a section as he has time. I'm no alarmist, but anything I see that looks like a spot water can gain entry into these boats, I fix.

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Author	Topic: Caulk
Bogan	posted 06-29-2009 06:02 AM ET (US) I have a 1987 Outrage 20 and it looks like the caulk between the floor panels has deteriorated to the point that it cannot be water tight. How do I correct this? Is it DIY like a bathroom tub? Or do I need a professional? Do I need to do it Asap or season's end? Any advice or shared experience is appreciated. Thanks!
Slippery Eel	posted 06-29-2009 07:21 AM ET (US) You can probally wait till the season is over. You will need to remove all of the old caulk. Contact Sue Lodel at Twin Cities Marine. (contact is in the reference section). They stock the caulk you can use for the deck. Don't use silicone caulk as it has a tendancy to collect mold and is a pain to remove down the road.
R T M	posted 06-29-2009 07:29 AM ET (US) A professional caulker would be a house painter, certainly no one in the marine, marina, RV business. I`m sure you can do it. The difficult thing is to get the joint clean to start with. 5200 is very difficult to work with, and the joint is permanently sealed, maybe not a good thing. 4200 is a little easier but still relativity difficult, but not as permanent. An easier choice but still a good caulk, is exterior window and door caulk. Make sure it is silicone AND adhesive based. All these products are available from Home Depot. Cut the tube at a slight angle and lay down a thin even bead. Then immediately wet your finger with saliva and smooth out the bead. The caulk will not stick to your finger with the saliva, so you can keep repeating this process. If the bead is so wide that when you smooth it you wind up with ridges on each side, your screwed and won`t have a good joint. A little practice makes perfect, and yes I was a pro house painter among other things, frame and trim carpenter, fiberglass guy, roofer, only an amature boat builder. rich/Binkie
R T M	posted 06-29-2009 07:40 AM ET (US) Don`t use strictly silicone caulk. It is not adhesive, and can`t be smoothed in the above manner, and will conduct mildew. I never found a use for that stuff. rich/Binkie
Bogan	posted 06-29-2009 09:23 AM ET (US) Thanks!
Jeff	posted 06-29-2009 11:05 AM ET (US) You want to use a polysulfide caulk to seal the gap between the floor and the rest of the hull. Polysulfide caulk provides a great amount of flex and give over many years. Thus reducing the amount of cracking and release you get from others that dry up and become brittle after a short life on the sun. I used "BoatLife" for this job when I rebuild my outrage's floor 4 years ago and it really worked well. The white color will quickly change to a off white in the first year of use to match the desert tan well.
Jeff	posted 06-29-2009 11:18 AM ET (US) BTW, A trick I learned since was to lay 30 - 40lbs this fishing line in this gap before you caulk. Leave a length of it hanging out in the rigging tunnel sump area and if you ever need to get the floor back up just pull the line and it will cut the caulk for you to release for floor. Also, I put painters tape on both sides of the gap before caulking. This allows you to put in a nice bead of caulk, smooth it out with your finger like RTM says, then remove the tape. It will save you A LOT of clean up. Finally, you do not really need a caulk that is an adhesive. You want a sealant and this is why I recommend a polysulfide. Since the floor is being held in place by screws and not the caulk, an adhesive is redundant and much more of a pain to remove at a later date I have found.
fishgutz	posted 06-29-2009 12:32 PM ET (US) Everyone gives great suggestions here. I like the fishing line idea and masking both sides of the joint. Another would be, if the groove or gap is deep lay a piece of "Foam Rope" in the groove to take up some room so you're not filling up a deep gap with lots of caulk. The joint in the floor of my Dauntless 14 is about 1 to 1 1/4 inch deep. Foam Rope can be found at any hardware store or Home Depot or Lowes. It's Cheap.
Bogan	posted 06-29-2009 02:48 PM ET (US) Again, Thanks!
Bogan	posted 06-29-2009 02:56 PM ET (US) I guess I should ask, what do you guys think about the importance of this repair? Is is something that needs to be done ASAP, or season's end? Can water seep in and damage the hull/foam? With a bathtub you need to keep it dry for 24-48 hours; is it the same thing here? That could be difficult.
Jeff	posted 06-29-2009 04:54 PM ET (US) Even with newly sealed deck seams I still got water into the fuel tank cavity AGAIN after the first major rain storm and deck washing. So, it really is not going to hurt much if you wait until the end of the season. What ever damage that has been done is already done and a couple more month is not going to change much in the grand scheme of things. I would be more worried about the true condition of the deck, water ready sitting around the fuel tank and the condition of the fuel tank. If you are going to recaulk the seam any way, do yourself a favor and pull up the deck to inspect all of those items. It will either be a vote of confidence or, you may find things you need to attend to. Here is the article I wrote when I rebuilt my floor. It will give an idea what you are dealing with when it comes to the center fuel tank cavity and what lays below. Your 20 outrage has the same layout minus the rear fish well as my 22. Page one: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html Page two: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore2.html
Blackduck	posted 06-29-2009 05:13 PM ET (US) I think if the caulk is in a condition where it is not keeping water from entering the tank cavity, it should be repaired ASAP. This is not a hard job to do, and the risk of letting it go does not make sense to me. It's not like you can just dry out the foam once it gets wet.
Jeff	posted 06-29-2009 07:40 PM ET (US) Black, like I stated before the caulking of this seam really does very littleour anything at all to keep water from entering into the fuel tank cavity. There are so many ways for water to enter the rigging tunnel that it is a losing battle. Once water is in there it is an easy transiton into the fuel tank cavity. Plus with this boat being 22 years old now I am sure the fuel tank cavity is already saturated. Thus waiting a couple months is not going to make that much difference in the end.
Bogan	posted 06-29-2009 08:45 PM ET (US) Jeff, Thanks for including pictures of your renovation. It was interesting to see. My question is, do you think all classic whalers need to undergo such elaborate and extensive repairs? Mine has been taken pretty good care of and I can't imagine I am alone in the deteriorating sealant dept? But I love this boat and plan to keep it until either it or I can no longer keep up. From your pics it looks like more of a project than I am willing to undergo. Can you estimate the cost of opening it up and having it looked at and repaired if necessary? It is getting re-powered this week or next; is that the time to do it? But with a new motor it would be hard for it to sit on trailer while being fixed.
Blackduck	posted 06-30-2009 10:03 AM ET (US) Jeff, I know what you are saying, and agree, but why not take care of something like this right away? It is easy to do, and he can just caulk a section as he has time. I'm no alarmist, but anything I see that looks like a spot water can gain entry into these boats, I fix.