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Author Topic:   22 Guardian and Flotation Bracket

CJ posted 10-31-2009 11:41 AM ET (US)
I am finally getting around to building our 22 Guardian after holding onto it for a year with no progress.
What I would like to do is add a full width flotation bracket. We want to use it primarily as a trailerable dive boat for various adventures on the east coast and gulf. My idea is to leave the aluminum splash door out and add about 2.5'-3' of flotation bracket with a single 250-300 HP engine. this would create a good entry-exit point straight out the transom of the boat and hang a good ladder off the side of the bracket. The flotation bracket would add enough lift to the stern and begin lifting the stern 3' before the water got to the low cut transom in rough/confused seas. Kinda like the best of both worlds in reference to the old closed transom vs notch transom debate.
Anybody have an idea how the bracket would effect the performance, handling and ride of the boat?
I know it will make her a little less nimble around the dock (especially in reverse).
jfw22 posted 11-03-2009 05:26 AM ET (US)
I am just about to finish up my project doing the same thing to a '86 Guardian 22. I put an Armstrong bracket on the back and mounted a Yamaha 250 2 stroke. I also moved the console back about 1 foot from original.
I have no performance data yet because I am about 2 weeks from getting it in the water. I should have something soon. I also took out the aluminum floor that was in the boat and lightened it considerably by putting in a composit flooring I had made from Coosa industry.
I'll let you know when I get it in the water.
John
CJ posted 11-07-2009 12:17 PM ET (US)
Thanks, keep me updated.
I am putting in a new fuel tank, 1 foot shorter than the factory 150G tank to push some weight away from the transom. I had tabs put on the new tank and will be sucuring it to the boat and allowing it to flow air (no foam). I am putting a small bilge pump behind the tank.
We took the factory console and turned it into an aluminum pilot console with aluminum hard top.
Staying with the aluminum gunwales and replacing the void in the front where the gunner used to stand with factory fiberglass hatches. That will create one very big and deep storage area reaching back almost half way under the center console.
Looking now for a Line X location that can spray the deck in grey.
jimh posted 11-07-2009 12:54 PM ET (US)
I would like to see a photograph or image of the 22-foot Boston Whaler hull with an Armstrong bracket and single 250-HP engine that shows the static trim of the hull.
Also, does the Armstrong bracket used in this modification have a buoyancy box? That is, was the bracket designed to displace water and create some buoyancy when the boat is underway? When the boat is at rest?
Tonym posted 11-14-2009 02:15 PM ET (US)
Jim,
A few years ago I looked into installing an Armstrong Bracket when I was rebuilding my 18 foot Raider. The factory said that the bracket is hollow filled only with air. There are two Armstrong Deck Plates which give you access to check the interior cavity. The bracket wasn’t in my budget but I did buy two of their deck plates and was very surprised to find out that they were truly water tight. So to answer your question they do create some positive buoyancy but it depends on the model as they come in different sizes.
Tonym
jimh posted 11-14-2009 06:12 PM ET (US)
Tony--I understand that Armstrong brackets can be configured in many ways as the customer desires. I was asking jfw22 about the specific Armstrong bracket he is going to use on his particular Boston Whaler 22-footer with single engine. Perhaps we will see some details if he returns to the discussion with some images of the boat in the water.
L H G posted 11-15-2009 03:17 AM ET (US)
CJ - I own a 25 Outrage with Armstrong bracket carrying twin 200 Merc EFI's. I had it designed and installed when the boat was new.
First of all, don't expect too much bouyancy from the bracket. Not much of it is in the water with the boat at rest, so bouyancy effect is minimal. But I would not worry about that since the boat can easily handle the offset weight of a big single.
A transom bracket like an Armstrong is a surprisingly good addition to any cut transom boat 20' and over, and like you say, it makes for easy access to the stern. Armstrong also makes an excellent boarding ladder that drops into a notched fitting welded on to the bracket. Highly recommended.
My design recommendations for your project would be as follows:
1. design and install bracket for a 30" single engine, and use a dual engine design, but drilled for a single. The wider bracket body will give more floation, look better, and enclose the transom more effectively. It will also provide more bolting surface for load distribution on the transom. Side platform "wings" should be added to extend the overall width to the end of the raised portion of the outer transom.
2. Install the bracket on the cut transom so that the platform is 5" above the cut transom. This will give you effectively a 30" transom notch, greatly preventing water problems over the transom. The exposed face of the bracket (portion facing forward) will raise the "notch" 5" and keep water out. The higher power head provided by the 30" engine shaft length will be of value also. Almost all of Whaler's later 22 Guardians were built with 30" transoms. (They should have made this modification to the recreational 22's also, but never offered it.)
3. I would recommend a bracket setback of 26". 36" would be WAY TOO MUCH.
4. The 1" brass drain tubes in the transom may have to be glassed in for the bracket installation. An automatic 500 GPH bilge pump will have to be installed in the lower transom sump. The "D" transom eyes may not interfere with the bracket side platforms, since they will be 5" higher.
This bracket will be expensive, probably about 3K, but well worth it. You may be able to save money on the 30" engine, as dealers are often stuck with them and find them hard to sell. I would avoid the temptation to "cheap out" and go with a single engine narrow body bracket, and the 25" engine height. You will regret it, as the engine will be too low as you plane off the boat, and back down from plane.
Your installation will look very similar to mine, which is also designed for a 30" single, or 25" twins:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=7269006-R2-006-1A.jpg .

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Author	Topic: 22 Guardian and Flotation Bracket
CJ	posted 10-31-2009 11:41 AM ET (US) I am finally getting around to building our 22 Guardian after holding onto it for a year with no progress. What I would like to do is add a full width flotation bracket. We want to use it primarily as a trailerable dive boat for various adventures on the east coast and gulf. My idea is to leave the aluminum splash door out and add about 2.5'-3' of flotation bracket with a single 250-300 HP engine. this would create a good entry-exit point straight out the transom of the boat and hang a good ladder off the side of the bracket. The flotation bracket would add enough lift to the stern and begin lifting the stern 3' before the water got to the low cut transom in rough/confused seas. Kinda like the best of both worlds in reference to the old closed transom vs notch transom debate. Anybody have an idea how the bracket would effect the performance, handling and ride of the boat? I know it will make her a little less nimble around the dock (especially in reverse).
jfw22	posted 11-03-2009 05:26 AM ET (US) I am just about to finish up my project doing the same thing to a '86 Guardian 22. I put an Armstrong bracket on the back and mounted a Yamaha 250 2 stroke. I also moved the console back about 1 foot from original. I have no performance data yet because I am about 2 weeks from getting it in the water. I should have something soon. I also took out the aluminum floor that was in the boat and lightened it considerably by putting in a composit flooring I had made from Coosa industry. I'll let you know when I get it in the water. John
CJ	posted 11-07-2009 12:17 PM ET (US) Thanks, keep me updated. I am putting in a new fuel tank, 1 foot shorter than the factory 150G tank to push some weight away from the transom. I had tabs put on the new tank and will be sucuring it to the boat and allowing it to flow air (no foam). I am putting a small bilge pump behind the tank. We took the factory console and turned it into an aluminum pilot console with aluminum hard top. Staying with the aluminum gunwales and replacing the void in the front where the gunner used to stand with factory fiberglass hatches. That will create one very big and deep storage area reaching back almost half way under the center console. Looking now for a Line X location that can spray the deck in grey.
jimh	posted 11-07-2009 12:54 PM ET (US) I would like to see a photograph or image of the 22-foot Boston Whaler hull with an Armstrong bracket and single 250-HP engine that shows the static trim of the hull. Also, does the Armstrong bracket used in this modification have a buoyancy box? That is, was the bracket designed to displace water and create some buoyancy when the boat is underway? When the boat is at rest?
Tonym	posted 11-14-2009 02:15 PM ET (US) Jim, A few years ago I looked into installing an Armstrong Bracket when I was rebuilding my 18 foot Raider. The factory said that the bracket is hollow filled only with air. There are two Armstrong Deck Plates which give you access to check the interior cavity. The bracket wasn’t in my budget but I did buy two of their deck plates and was very surprised to find out that they were truly water tight. So to answer your question they do create some positive buoyancy but it depends on the model as they come in different sizes. Tonym
jimh	posted 11-14-2009 06:12 PM ET (US) Tony--I understand that Armstrong brackets can be configured in many ways as the customer desires. I was asking jfw22 about the specific Armstrong bracket he is going to use on his particular Boston Whaler 22-footer with single engine. Perhaps we will see some details if he returns to the discussion with some images of the boat in the water.
L H G	posted 11-15-2009 03:17 AM ET (US) CJ - I own a 25 Outrage with Armstrong bracket carrying twin 200 Merc EFI's. I had it designed and installed when the boat was new. First of all, don't expect too much bouyancy from the bracket. Not much of it is in the water with the boat at rest, so bouyancy effect is minimal. But I would not worry about that since the boat can easily handle the offset weight of a big single. A transom bracket like an Armstrong is a surprisingly good addition to any cut transom boat 20' and over, and like you say, it makes for easy access to the stern. Armstrong also makes an excellent boarding ladder that drops into a notched fitting welded on to the bracket. Highly recommended. My design recommendations for your project would be as follows: 1. design and install bracket for a 30" single engine, and use a dual engine design, but drilled for a single. The wider bracket body will give more floation, look better, and enclose the transom more effectively. It will also provide more bolting surface for load distribution on the transom. Side platform "wings" should be added to extend the overall width to the end of the raised portion of the outer transom. 2. Install the bracket on the cut transom so that the platform is 5" above the cut transom. This will give you effectively a 30" transom notch, greatly preventing water problems over the transom. The exposed face of the bracket (portion facing forward) will raise the "notch" 5" and keep water out. The higher power head provided by the 30" engine shaft length will be of value also. Almost all of Whaler's later 22 Guardians were built with 30" transoms. (They should have made this modification to the recreational 22's also, but never offered it.) 3. I would recommend a bracket setback of 26". 36" would be WAY TOO MUCH. 4. The 1" brass drain tubes in the transom may have to be glassed in for the bracket installation. An automatic 500 GPH bilge pump will have to be installed in the lower transom sump. The "D" transom eyes may not interfere with the bracket side platforms, since they will be 5" higher. This bracket will be expensive, probably about 3K, but well worth it. You may be able to save money on the 30" engine, as dealers are often stuck with them and find them hard to sell. I would avoid the temptation to "cheap out" and go with a single engine narrow body bracket, and the 25" engine height. You will regret it, as the engine will be too low as you plane off the boat, and back down from plane. Your installation will look very similar to mine, which is also designed for a 30" single, or 25" twins: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=7269006-R2-006-1A.jpg .