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Author Topic:   Hole and Delamination Repair

Burrah posted 11-08-2009 02:17 PM ET (US)
I know hole filling and glass repairs are a tired topic. I've done a good bit of it with MAS epoxy on my Whaler and several sailboats. But I'm having trouble finding answers for a few specific questions. Directions to prior threads welcome.
I have a 1978 Sport 15. Have faired up chips and gouges underneath, I'm now at work on its neglected cockpit.
Is there a diagram somewhere of dimension and location of the wire channel in port the gunwale? I want to backfill a bunch of stripped screw holes, but it's clear that there's a hollow behind some of them. I don't want to start injecting epoxy until I figure out which hollows are keepers and which I can fill. Holes are drilled and drying.
In cleaning out my drilled-out holes with compressed air, I jammed the nozzle into a couple of them, and found that they caused the outer hull skin to bulge away from foam over a couple-square foot area. I don't want to repeat this, but I do think I should try to restore that hull-foam bond (that Whalers are so famed for) in those places. My current thinking is that I'll drill a couple of holes in the hull skin above the areas that I can make bulge, and inject epoxy while gently "inflating" again from above with the compressed air. And then press them in, and keep fingers crossed. Any ideas here?
Has anyone found a flex mold that matches nonskid gelcoat pattern on these older Sports? I had to cut out a forward deck section to grind out some plywood that had become wet and softened below a crack. Will replace wood and rebed whole thing with epoxy--but I'd like to make the seam of the repaired deck as inconspicuous as possible.
Thanks for any advice.
-Barry
saundersfam@bellsouth.net

jimh posted 11-08-2009 02:53 PM ET (US)
My impression is the electrical cable was installed in a c.1978 SPORT 15 by encapsulating it in the interior of the hull-liner structure, where it was surrounded by foam. I do not believe there is a cavity that was molded or somehow provided for the cable so that it was installed after the boat was molded and foamed into the Unibond hull. I assume that before the hull and liner were joined, the cable was installed and retained in some manner so that it would not be likely to be damaged by fasteners used to install subsequent components, such as the rub rail. At some point the electrical cable was moved from inside the hull to outside, and run behind the plastic receiver track of the rub rail. That might be the case on your boat, as I do not know the precise epoch when production techniques changed.
If the hull outer skin has become de-laminated from the foam, I agree that you want to restore than bond. My suggestion is to let gravity help you flow the adhesive--and epoxy would be a good choice--into the area. Another possibility--and here I am just thinking aloud with no real experience--might be to employ a vacuum bagging technique. Infuse resin into one end of the region, and apply a vacuum at the far end. The vacuum will draw the resin across the area where there is a void between the laminated and the foam.
As for this business of molds for casting new non-skid into a gel coat patch, I don't have any new advice. From time to time this topic is discussed, and occasionally a recommendation is offered, but off the top of my head I do not recall any break-through in solving this problem.
jimh posted 11-08-2009 07:11 PM ET (US)
It looks like c.1972 was about the epoch when the electrical cable for the combined sidelights at the bow was moved to be run externally to the hull and concealed behind the rub rail. See:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4
This implies on your 1978 boat the wiring should be external to the hull and concealed behind the rub rail.
jimh posted 11-08-2009 07:14 PM ET (US)
You can see the electrical wiring running behind the rub rail in the illustrations that accompany this article:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/170Auxiliary.html
macfam posted 11-08-2009 09:43 PM ET (US)

Try this link for repairing the delaminated area:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005958.html
dfmcintyre posted 11-08-2009 10:09 PM ET (US)
Jim's advise regarding vac bagging concept might work, under the concept bag that your bagging withouth a bag. I'd drill multiple holes, mix up epoxy that's a fairly quick set and like you want to do, slightly inflate the area that's been delaminated.
Once the epoxy is in, tape over the holes and apply a 4/5psi vac via the same hole you used to blow it up with in the first place.
Don

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Author	Topic: Hole and Delamination Repair
Burrah	posted 11-08-2009 02:17 PM ET (US) I know hole filling and glass repairs are a tired topic. I've done a good bit of it with MAS epoxy on my Whaler and several sailboats. But I'm having trouble finding answers for a few specific questions. Directions to prior threads welcome. I have a 1978 Sport 15. Have faired up chips and gouges underneath, I'm now at work on its neglected cockpit. Is there a diagram somewhere of dimension and location of the wire channel in port the gunwale? I want to backfill a bunch of stripped screw holes, but it's clear that there's a hollow behind some of them. I don't want to start injecting epoxy until I figure out which hollows are keepers and which I can fill. Holes are drilled and drying. In cleaning out my drilled-out holes with compressed air, I jammed the nozzle into a couple of them, and found that they caused the outer hull skin to bulge away from foam over a couple-square foot area. I don't want to repeat this, but I do think I should try to restore that hull-foam bond (that Whalers are so famed for) in those places. My current thinking is that I'll drill a couple of holes in the hull skin above the areas that I can make bulge, and inject epoxy while gently "inflating" again from above with the compressed air. And then press them in, and keep fingers crossed. Any ideas here? Has anyone found a flex mold that matches nonskid gelcoat pattern on these older Sports? I had to cut out a forward deck section to grind out some plywood that had become wet and softened below a crack. Will replace wood and rebed whole thing with epoxy--but I'd like to make the seam of the repaired deck as inconspicuous as possible. Thanks for any advice. -Barry saundersfam@bellsouth.net
jimh	posted 11-08-2009 02:53 PM ET (US) My impression is the electrical cable was installed in a c.1978 SPORT 15 by encapsulating it in the interior of the hull-liner structure, where it was surrounded by foam. I do not believe there is a cavity that was molded or somehow provided for the cable so that it was installed after the boat was molded and foamed into the Unibond hull. I assume that before the hull and liner were joined, the cable was installed and retained in some manner so that it would not be likely to be damaged by fasteners used to install subsequent components, such as the rub rail. At some point the electrical cable was moved from inside the hull to outside, and run behind the plastic receiver track of the rub rail. That might be the case on your boat, as I do not know the precise epoch when production techniques changed. If the hull outer skin has become de-laminated from the foam, I agree that you want to restore than bond. My suggestion is to let gravity help you flow the adhesive--and epoxy would be a good choice--into the area. Another possibility--and here I am just thinking aloud with no real experience--might be to employ a vacuum bagging technique. Infuse resin into one end of the region, and apply a vacuum at the far end. The vacuum will draw the resin across the area where there is a void between the laminated and the foam. As for this business of molds for casting new non-skid into a gel coat patch, I don't have any new advice. From time to time this topic is discussed, and occasionally a recommendation is offered, but off the top of my head I do not recall any break-through in solving this problem.
jimh	posted 11-08-2009 07:11 PM ET (US) It looks like c.1972 was about the epoch when the electrical cable for the combined sidelights at the bow was moved to be run externally to the hull and concealed behind the rub rail. See: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4 This implies on your 1978 boat the wiring should be external to the hull and concealed behind the rub rail.
jimh	posted 11-08-2009 07:14 PM ET (US) You can see the electrical wiring running behind the rub rail in the illustrations that accompany this article: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/170Auxiliary.html
macfam	posted 11-08-2009 09:43 PM ET (US) Try this link for repairing the delaminated area: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005958.html
dfmcintyre	posted 11-08-2009 10:09 PM ET (US) Jim's advise regarding vac bagging concept might work, under the concept bag that your bagging withouth a bag. I'd drill multiple holes, mix up epoxy that's a fairly quick set and like you want to do, slightly inflate the area that's been delaminated. Once the epoxy is in, tape over the holes and apply a 4/5psi vac via the same hole you used to blow it up with in the first place. Don