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Author Topic:   Water in Unibond Hull: Pour-In Foam

firepiper posted 01-21-2010 08:09 AM ET (US)
[The Unibond hull of] my Boston Whaler RAGE is wet. I actually removed a large section of the bottom (in one piece) to get at the wet foam. The foam was removed and the boat sat for six months with fan and dehumidifier. The remainder of the foan is now dry. My plan: epoxy the section back in and use pour-in foam to replace the foam, through two or three deck plates. Has anyone used this foam stuff before? Does it spread and expand well enough to travel into voids? Any advise would be great. Thanks, Mark
jimh posted 01-21-2010 09:04 AM ET (US)
The general advice from Boston Whaler on making large repairs can be found in
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/repairInstructions.html
in the subheading Large Structural Repairs. They mention the use of pre-cast blocks of foam. I would assume such pre-cast blocks may be of higher density that the foam that would result for an expanding foam applied in place.
If I were in your situation, I would contact Boston Whaler customer service and seek their advice. They may have some additional ideas. If you do this, and if you learn any new secrets, be sure to inform the rest of us.
firepiper posted 01-21-2010 10:04 AM ET (US)
Thanks. I had read the repair info. The pour in foam i've been considering is rated at 63 lb. per sq. foot. I think carving a block would be alot more work, and the pour in stuff should fill/expand to the void. Just looking for real world suggestions/experiences. Mark
high sierra posted 01-21-2010 12:22 PM ET (US)
Firepiper, I have used the 2 part foam on a aluminum boat , (not a whaler) and the foam works extremely well but does not flow far from where it is poured. The expansion is huge and would blow the floor out of a closed in deck I do believe. Works well but you have to be quick! From mix time to pour is a matter of seconds. It changes color when mixing and you have seconds to pour it into the cavity. Also it sticks to everything. high sierra
hauptjm posted 01-21-2010 12:28 PM ET (US)
You better have some sort of sprue[sp?] hole system in place. When that foam begins to expand, the existing foam that surrounds your repair has got to go somewhere. I'm sure this is why Whaler suggest the use of preformed foam.
R T M posted 01-21-2010 01:21 PM ET (US)
I think if you have no experience doing this, as most of us don`t, you would be extremely lucky to get a satisfactory job on your first try. I think you will end up with a floor full of hills and valleys, and many hidden voids under the deck.
At one time some of us discussed how to replace a deck that has been removed and all the saturated foam scooped out as you are doing. I think the consensus to the fix was to install stringers in your boat fiberglass a deck over the stringers, and drill many spru holes and pour the foam through these holes. Let it mushroom out of the holes and cut or grind the mushrooms off after a few days. You can use dense foam boards such as Divinicil or other brands, for the deck and the stringers. These foam boards are structural. At least with this method you have control of the fill process, and you are only filling a smaller portion at a time, and the deck won`t blow out.
rich/Binkie
Tohsgib posted 01-21-2010 01:45 PM ET (US)
Deck plates are not water tight. I would fill the foam the best you can, install floor and then drill a few small holes and hit with the can stuff to fill the last small voids.
Waccamaw Whaler posted 01-22-2010 02:49 AM ET (US)
If it was me I would try it.
When I replaced my fuel tank I purchased the foam from www.uscomposites.com These folks are great to work with. I'd give them a call to request their recommendation regarding the type of foam, density and quantity. I'd buy a little more foam than they recommend just in case you spill some or something unexpected happens.
When I worked in industry I visited many companies that worked with foam. From what I observed, this is what I would do:
- Have at least one person who can 'think ahead' to help you.
- The liquid foam acts relatively quickly and is messy to work with so you need to plan ahead. Plan what you're going to do before you start - REHERSE!
- Use blue painters tape and tape a thin sheet of plastic all around the hole to protect the hull from the expanding foam. This stuff is EXTREMELY hard to get off of unwanted surfaces and it's ugly.
- Cut a piece of plywood to cover as much of the deck around the hole in the deck as possible.
- Cut a round hole in the plywood to fit a funnel YOU MAKE from an old plastic bottle. The longer the neck the better. You want the funnel big enough to pour the foam quickly. I'm thinking 3" plus. You want to locate the hole in the plywood over the deepest part of the hole you're going to fill.
- Cut a second piece of wood big enough to cover the hole and set a cement block or 5 gal. bucket on. Cover the wood with plastic to keep it from sticking.
- Lay a second sheet of plastic over the first to make it easier to remove the plywood cover when the foam dries.
- Position the plywood on the deck and cut a hole in the top sheet of plastic film.
- Put weights (cement blocks or 5 gal pails of water) on the plywood to hold it tight against the deck and keep the foam from lifting the plywood and to help retain the density of the foam.
- Everyone wear disposable gloves and old clothes!
- Mix the foam according to directions and pour it into the funnel/hole. Keep pouring until the foam starts to expand out of the hole. (SAVE a small amount of foam "unmixed" in the event you need it to fill in any voids later.)
- Cover the hole and put a weighted cover to keep the foam from coming out. This also allows the foam to dry more densily.
- Don't mess with the wet expanded foam that overflows. Let it dry. When dry you can break it off or easily or cut it with a saw or serrated knife.
- After the foam dries and you remove the plywood & plastic, fill in any voids with the remaining foam you saved and then cut or sand the remaining dried foam to your desired finish.
When I foamed my fuel tank I poured fiberglass resin over the finished foam surface to further seal it and give it a harder surface.
Go for it
Ron
dscew posted 01-22-2010 09:53 AM ET (US)
If you're going to cover and weight the hole into which the foam is poured, I would think there is some risk of deforming the outer hull. I know that the foam used by Whaler was greatly compressed during curing, but the entire hull was in a reinforced steel mold. The skin of a Whaler is relatively thin.
firepiper posted 01-22-2010 11:29 AM ET (US)
I agree that i'll need to leave some holes for the excess 'pressure' to escape, so as to not deform the hull/floors.
themclos posted 01-22-2010 01:21 PM ET (US)
I think it would useful to the discussion to understand exactly how large a "large section of the bottom" actually is.
Can you provide measurements and/or post a link to pictures?
My suggestions might vary considerably based upon this information.
Thanks,
Dan
frostbite posted 01-22-2010 05:50 PM ET (US)
Pouring foam is doable, but rather tricky. Ensuring complete mixing of the 2 part foam, how much to mix, and with a very short window in which to pour,it is an exiting operation.
Call a professional home insulator and ask what they would charge to spray it.
modenacart posted 01-22-2010 07:09 PM ET (US)
It is basic math to calculate how much foam to pour. The foam I used was a one to one ratio and very easy to mix. It was about 60 F when I poured so I shined a 60 watt bulb on the foam. It raised about 17 to 1. The foam should give you the expansion rate.
frostbite posted 01-23-2010 07:15 AM ET (US)
Modenacart,
What density foam did you use to achieve a 17:1 expansion rate?
modenacart posted 01-23-2010 07:09 PM ET (US)
I bought from this company. http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html . They shipped pretty quickly and are pretty cheap.
I used the four lb foam because that is approximately the density of the cured clamped foam in a whaler. The website states its a 15 to 1 expansion. I misspoke when I stated 17 to 1, I should have stated 15 to 1.
R T M posted 01-23-2010 11:06 PM ET (US)
Modernacart, please tell me how to figure the volume of the bilge area of the boat under the newly laid deck. If I knew the exact volume (you said its basic math), then I would know how many gallons to pour, and I would now there would be no voids under the deck, and also no foam mushrooms coming out of the holes. sounds pretty easy, but my basic math is not so good. Please elaborate
rich/Binkie
Waccamaw Whaler posted 01-24-2010 12:39 AM ET (US)
To estimate the cubic ft. of the fill area, fill the hull with something you can easily remove e.g., saw dust or styrafoam peanuts that you can vacuum out. Use a container with a known volume to fill the void. Count the full/partial container as you fill the void.
5 gal = ~0.668 cubic feet 2/3 cu ft
Waccamaw Whaler posted 01-24-2010 12:54 AM ET (US)
I ment to mention that
5 gal = ~0.668 cubic feet 2/3 cu ft is for LIQUIDS
For DRY materials
5 gal = .777 ft³ = 4.995 gal
R T M posted 01-24-2010 06:50 AM ET (US)
Well, for an easier way I could just level the boat on the trailer, and fill it with water (virtually free) and then just drain it out the drain plug hole in the stern and see how many times I fill a 5 gallon bucket,(one gallon of liquid equals 3.2 cu. ft.), but I would like to know the basic math method as modernacart proposes.
Where would I get a bilge full of sawdust, do you know what styrofoam peanuts cost? Actually gold dust is denser and would give a more accurate volume, but I hate to grind up my gold coins;)
rich/Binkie
modenacart posted 01-24-2010 08:55 AM ET (US)
The basic math is to take a tape measure and divide the volume into several cubes. This can be time consuming but L x W x H and then summing the volumes of the cubes IS basic math. That is what calculus is. Taking infinitely small rectangle areas and summing them up to get the exact area under a curve.
The area I filled was relatively small so I just used the "eyeball" method. Also, there is a ton of sand around me for free for the measure and fill method. Be creative.
modenacart posted 01-24-2010 08:57 AM ET (US)
I never stated you wouldn't have foam mushrooming out. I am not sure the point you are trying to make. I would estimate a little high to have foam mushroom out to ensure more complete filling of the volume.
R T M posted 01-24-2010 01:55 PM ET (US)
Well, the only point I was trying to make is if you have ever seen the inside of a hull bottom, you can see that is is a series of compound convex and convoluted shapes. It would be impossible to get the volume by simple math or even calculus which I flunked in school anyway. The only way to get the volume is to fill it with something. Being that Whaler hulls are very thin minus the foam I think sand would distort the hull shape, water might work, I don`t know how deep the hull of a Rage is at the bow. I think it would be a good idea to glass in a layer of 3/4oz. matt against the inside of the hull bottom. It would give the hull more stiffness, and the new foam would have a better chance of sticking to the bottom.
rich/Binkie
modenacart posted 01-24-2010 02:24 PM ET (US)
From the pictures I have seen of the foam removed from a whaler and the small area I cut out of my deck, I think you can get a good approximation using triangles as the base then multiply by the length. All you need is a reasonable approximations. I had to estimate the under-cowl volume for a turbine engine and did it using circles, squares and triangles per unit length. It was time consuming but I got very good results.
Remember, all you need is a good approximation, its not rocket science.
Waccamaw Whaler posted 01-24-2010 03:32 PM ET (US)
Use loose fill insulation, you can buy 16 cuft at Lowes for $10 then you could put it up in your attic when you take it out.
You're making too much out of this. Do a rough 'over estimate', buy more than you need and return the unopened containers. That way you are only out the return postage. Even if you would not have enough foam, you can add more later.
modenacart posted 02-04-2010 03:23 PM ET (US)
RTM,
I didn't realize that you were the senior repair engineer on CW. I will be sure to get all my post approved by you before I post again. I will not give stupid advice anymore since I can get it all approved by you.
R T M posted 02-04-2010 04:28 PM ET (US)
moderncart.
I only give someone advice when I have done something similar, so I can speak from experience. You give advice by assumption with out having done the actual work yourself, or even seeing someone doing it. You just assume that would be the way to do it. Most of your advice is off the wall, especially the post above calculating the volume of a bilge by using triangles and trapezoids, etc. LOL. Lets see some pictures of what you have done, as far as filling your Whaler bilge with foam. Please don`t contact me to approve of your lamebrain methods, I`m too busy working on my boats, and remodeling my home.
rich/Binkie
White Bear posted 02-04-2010 04:44 PM ET (US)
If I've read Firepiper's original post correctly, he has cut out a large section of the bottom (outer shell) in order to remove wet foam and he plans to epoxy this section back in place before refilling the void with new foam either pre-formed or expandable. If this is indeed the case and he wants to make a lasting repair to the bottom, should not all of the decking be removed so that the interior aspect of the bottom can be accessed for a truly permanent repair. If the decking is removed, the installation of new foam should be relatively simple since the void spaces everyone is correctly concerned about filling will now be open on top and can be trimmed after the foam has expanded so as to fit the contour of the underside of the decking. Am I missing something in the presentation of this problem, or is there something unusual about the construction of the Rage that makes removal of the decking impossible?
modenacart posted 02-04-2010 05:53 PM ET (US)
I have replaced a section of my deck and refoamed the area. I used a tape measure and estimated the volume by getting measuring out a triangle times the length. I calculated the undercowl volume of a jet engine using simple shapes such as circles, triangles, squares and rectangles per unit length with very good results. I am sorry your simple brain cannot understand simple geometry.
modenacart posted 02-04-2010 05:57 PM ET (US)
RTM,
Its nice you assume what someone's experience is with no knowledge, it really makes you look foolish.
RLwhaler posted 02-05-2010 01:35 AM ET (US)
Firepiper,check out my photobucket..i did more than just re-foam.I literally had to built the whole front of the bow.I got that Whaler free from New Jersey JUST for that reason...Most importantly,i gave it to a GREAT group of Veterans and law enforcement.If i can help in any way,shoot me your number!
You guys crack me up!hang in there fellas,winter is almost over!!:P
Richard

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Author	Topic: Water in Unibond Hull: Pour-In Foam
firepiper	posted 01-21-2010 08:09 AM ET (US) [The Unibond hull of] my Boston Whaler RAGE is wet. I actually removed a large section of the bottom (in one piece) to get at the wet foam. The foam was removed and the boat sat for six months with fan and dehumidifier. The remainder of the foan is now dry. My plan: epoxy the section back in and use pour-in foam to replace the foam, through two or three deck plates. Has anyone used this foam stuff before? Does it spread and expand well enough to travel into voids? Any advise would be great. Thanks, Mark
jimh	posted 01-21-2010 09:04 AM ET (US) The general advice from Boston Whaler on making large repairs can be found in http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/repairInstructions.html in the subheading Large Structural Repairs. They mention the use of pre-cast blocks of foam. I would assume such pre-cast blocks may be of higher density that the foam that would result for an expanding foam applied in place. If I were in your situation, I would contact Boston Whaler customer service and seek their advice. They may have some additional ideas. If you do this, and if you learn any new secrets, be sure to inform the rest of us.
firepiper	posted 01-21-2010 10:04 AM ET (US) Thanks. I had read the repair info. The pour in foam i've been considering is rated at 63 lb. per sq. foot. I think carving a block would be alot more work, and the pour in stuff should fill/expand to the void. Just looking for real world suggestions/experiences. Mark
high sierra	posted 01-21-2010 12:22 PM ET (US) Firepiper, I have used the 2 part foam on a aluminum boat , (not a whaler) and the foam works extremely well but does not flow far from where it is poured. The expansion is huge and would blow the floor out of a closed in deck I do believe. Works well but you have to be quick! From mix time to pour is a matter of seconds. It changes color when mixing and you have seconds to pour it into the cavity. Also it sticks to everything. high sierra
hauptjm	posted 01-21-2010 12:28 PM ET (US) You better have some sort of sprue[sp?] hole system in place. When that foam begins to expand, the existing foam that surrounds your repair has got to go somewhere. I'm sure this is why Whaler suggest the use of preformed foam.
R T M	posted 01-21-2010 01:21 PM ET (US) I think if you have no experience doing this, as most of us don`t, you would be extremely lucky to get a satisfactory job on your first try. I think you will end up with a floor full of hills and valleys, and many hidden voids under the deck. At one time some of us discussed how to replace a deck that has been removed and all the saturated foam scooped out as you are doing. I think the consensus to the fix was to install stringers in your boat fiberglass a deck over the stringers, and drill many spru holes and pour the foam through these holes. Let it mushroom out of the holes and cut or grind the mushrooms off after a few days. You can use dense foam boards such as Divinicil or other brands, for the deck and the stringers. These foam boards are structural. At least with this method you have control of the fill process, and you are only filling a smaller portion at a time, and the deck won`t blow out. rich/Binkie
Tohsgib	posted 01-21-2010 01:45 PM ET (US) Deck plates are not water tight. I would fill the foam the best you can, install floor and then drill a few small holes and hit with the can stuff to fill the last small voids.
Waccamaw Whaler	posted 01-22-2010 02:49 AM ET (US) If it was me I would try it. When I replaced my fuel tank I purchased the foam from www.uscomposites.com These folks are great to work with. I'd give them a call to request their recommendation regarding the type of foam, density and quantity. I'd buy a little more foam than they recommend just in case you spill some or something unexpected happens. When I worked in industry I visited many companies that worked with foam. From what I observed, this is what I would do: - Have at least one person who can 'think ahead' to help you. - The liquid foam acts relatively quickly and is messy to work with so you need to plan ahead. Plan what you're going to do before you start - REHERSE! - Use blue painters tape and tape a thin sheet of plastic all around the hole to protect the hull from the expanding foam. This stuff is EXTREMELY hard to get off of unwanted surfaces and it's ugly. - Cut a piece of plywood to cover as much of the deck around the hole in the deck as possible. - Cut a round hole in the plywood to fit a funnel YOU MAKE from an old plastic bottle. The longer the neck the better. You want the funnel big enough to pour the foam quickly. I'm thinking 3" plus. You want to locate the hole in the plywood over the deepest part of the hole you're going to fill. - Cut a second piece of wood big enough to cover the hole and set a cement block or 5 gal. bucket on. Cover the wood with plastic to keep it from sticking. - Lay a second sheet of plastic over the first to make it easier to remove the plywood cover when the foam dries. - Position the plywood on the deck and cut a hole in the top sheet of plastic film. - Put weights (cement blocks or 5 gal pails of water) on the plywood to hold it tight against the deck and keep the foam from lifting the plywood and to help retain the density of the foam. - Everyone wear disposable gloves and old clothes! - Mix the foam according to directions and pour it into the funnel/hole. Keep pouring until the foam starts to expand out of the hole. (SAVE a small amount of foam "unmixed" in the event you need it to fill in any voids later.) - Cover the hole and put a weighted cover to keep the foam from coming out. This also allows the foam to dry more densily. - Don't mess with the wet expanded foam that overflows. Let it dry. When dry you can break it off or easily or cut it with a saw or serrated knife. - After the foam dries and you remove the plywood & plastic, fill in any voids with the remaining foam you saved and then cut or sand the remaining dried foam to your desired finish. When I foamed my fuel tank I poured fiberglass resin over the finished foam surface to further seal it and give it a harder surface. Go for it Ron
dscew	posted 01-22-2010 09:53 AM ET (US) If you're going to cover and weight the hole into which the foam is poured, I would think there is some risk of deforming the outer hull. I know that the foam used by Whaler was greatly compressed during curing, but the entire hull was in a reinforced steel mold. The skin of a Whaler is relatively thin.
firepiper	posted 01-22-2010 11:29 AM ET (US) I agree that i'll need to leave some holes for the excess 'pressure' to escape, so as to not deform the hull/floors.
themclos	posted 01-22-2010 01:21 PM ET (US) I think it would useful to the discussion to understand exactly how large a "large section of the bottom" actually is. Can you provide measurements and/or post a link to pictures? My suggestions might vary considerably based upon this information. Thanks, Dan
frostbite	posted 01-22-2010 05:50 PM ET (US) Pouring foam is doable, but rather tricky. Ensuring complete mixing of the 2 part foam, how much to mix, and with a very short window in which to pour,it is an exiting operation. Call a professional home insulator and ask what they would charge to spray it.
modenacart	posted 01-22-2010 07:09 PM ET (US) It is basic math to calculate how much foam to pour. The foam I used was a one to one ratio and very easy to mix. It was about 60 F when I poured so I shined a 60 watt bulb on the foam. It raised about 17 to 1. The foam should give you the expansion rate.
frostbite	posted 01-23-2010 07:15 AM ET (US) Modenacart, What density foam did you use to achieve a 17:1 expansion rate?
modenacart	posted 01-23-2010 07:09 PM ET (US) I bought from this company. http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html . They shipped pretty quickly and are pretty cheap. I used the four lb foam because that is approximately the density of the cured clamped foam in a whaler. The website states its a 15 to 1 expansion. I misspoke when I stated 17 to 1, I should have stated 15 to 1.
R T M	posted 01-23-2010 11:06 PM ET (US) Modernacart, please tell me how to figure the volume of the bilge area of the boat under the newly laid deck. If I knew the exact volume (you said its basic math), then I would know how many gallons to pour, and I would now there would be no voids under the deck, and also no foam mushrooms coming out of the holes. sounds pretty easy, but my basic math is not so good. Please elaborate rich/Binkie
Waccamaw Whaler	posted 01-24-2010 12:39 AM ET (US) To estimate the cubic ft. of the fill area, fill the hull with something you can easily remove e.g., saw dust or styrafoam peanuts that you can vacuum out. Use a container with a known volume to fill the void. Count the full/partial container as you fill the void. 5 gal = ~0.668 cubic feet 2/3 cu ft
Waccamaw Whaler	posted 01-24-2010 12:54 AM ET (US) I ment to mention that 5 gal = ~0.668 cubic feet 2/3 cu ft is for LIQUIDS For DRY materials 5 gal = .777 ft³ = 4.995 gal
R T M	posted 01-24-2010 06:50 AM ET (US) Well, for an easier way I could just level the boat on the trailer, and fill it with water (virtually free) and then just drain it out the drain plug hole in the stern and see how many times I fill a 5 gallon bucket,(one gallon of liquid equals 3.2 cu. ft.), but I would like to know the basic math method as modernacart proposes. Where would I get a bilge full of sawdust, do you know what styrofoam peanuts cost? Actually gold dust is denser and would give a more accurate volume, but I hate to grind up my gold coins;) rich/Binkie
modenacart	posted 01-24-2010 08:55 AM ET (US) The basic math is to take a tape measure and divide the volume into several cubes. This can be time consuming but L x W x H and then summing the volumes of the cubes IS basic math. That is what calculus is. Taking infinitely small rectangle areas and summing them up to get the exact area under a curve. The area I filled was relatively small so I just used the "eyeball" method. Also, there is a ton of sand around me for free for the measure and fill method. Be creative.
modenacart	posted 01-24-2010 08:57 AM ET (US) I never stated you wouldn't have foam mushrooming out. I am not sure the point you are trying to make. I would estimate a little high to have foam mushroom out to ensure more complete filling of the volume.
R T M	posted 01-24-2010 01:55 PM ET (US) Well, the only point I was trying to make is if you have ever seen the inside of a hull bottom, you can see that is is a series of compound convex and convoluted shapes. It would be impossible to get the volume by simple math or even calculus which I flunked in school anyway. The only way to get the volume is to fill it with something. Being that Whaler hulls are very thin minus the foam I think sand would distort the hull shape, water might work, I don`t know how deep the hull of a Rage is at the bow. I think it would be a good idea to glass in a layer of 3/4oz. matt against the inside of the hull bottom. It would give the hull more stiffness, and the new foam would have a better chance of sticking to the bottom. rich/Binkie
modenacart	posted 01-24-2010 02:24 PM ET (US) From the pictures I have seen of the foam removed from a whaler and the small area I cut out of my deck, I think you can get a good approximation using triangles as the base then multiply by the length. All you need is a reasonable approximations. I had to estimate the under-cowl volume for a turbine engine and did it using circles, squares and triangles per unit length. It was time consuming but I got very good results. Remember, all you need is a good approximation, its not rocket science.
Waccamaw Whaler	posted 01-24-2010 03:32 PM ET (US) Use loose fill insulation, you can buy 16 cuft at Lowes for $10 then you could put it up in your attic when you take it out. You're making too much out of this. Do a rough 'over estimate', buy more than you need and return the unopened containers. That way you are only out the return postage. Even if you would not have enough foam, you can add more later.
modenacart	posted 02-04-2010 03:23 PM ET (US) RTM, I didn't realize that you were the senior repair engineer on CW. I will be sure to get all my post approved by you before I post again. I will not give stupid advice anymore since I can get it all approved by you.
R T M	posted 02-04-2010 04:28 PM ET (US) moderncart. I only give someone advice when I have done something similar, so I can speak from experience. You give advice by assumption with out having done the actual work yourself, or even seeing someone doing it. You just assume that would be the way to do it. Most of your advice is off the wall, especially the post above calculating the volume of a bilge by using triangles and trapezoids, etc. LOL. Lets see some pictures of what you have done, as far as filling your Whaler bilge with foam. Please don`t contact me to approve of your lamebrain methods, I`m too busy working on my boats, and remodeling my home. rich/Binkie
White Bear	posted 02-04-2010 04:44 PM ET (US) If I've read Firepiper's original post correctly, he has cut out a large section of the bottom (outer shell) in order to remove wet foam and he plans to epoxy this section back in place before refilling the void with new foam either pre-formed or expandable. If this is indeed the case and he wants to make a lasting repair to the bottom, should not all of the decking be removed so that the interior aspect of the bottom can be accessed for a truly permanent repair. If the decking is removed, the installation of new foam should be relatively simple since the void spaces everyone is correctly concerned about filling will now be open on top and can be trimmed after the foam has expanded so as to fit the contour of the underside of the decking. Am I missing something in the presentation of this problem, or is there something unusual about the construction of the Rage that makes removal of the decking impossible?
modenacart	posted 02-04-2010 05:53 PM ET (US) I have replaced a section of my deck and refoamed the area. I used a tape measure and estimated the volume by getting measuring out a triangle times the length. I calculated the undercowl volume of a jet engine using simple shapes such as circles, triangles, squares and rectangles per unit length with very good results. I am sorry your simple brain cannot understand simple geometry.
modenacart	posted 02-04-2010 05:57 PM ET (US) RTM, Its nice you assume what someone's experience is with no knowledge, it really makes you look foolish.
RLwhaler	posted 02-05-2010 01:35 AM ET (US) Firepiper,check out my photobucket..i did more than just re-foam.I literally had to built the whole front of the bow.I got that Whaler free from New Jersey JUST for that reason...Most importantly,i gave it to a GREAT group of Veterans and law enforcement.If i can help in any way,shoot me your number! You guys crack me up!hang in there fellas,winter is almost over!!:P Richard