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Author Topic:   Stern seat installation with full transom

JMR posted 02-25-2010 03:27 PM ET (US)
I am planning to install a contoured stern seat on my classic 27' (full transom). BW has an old drawing as per the link below for installation of such a seat on classic 20/22/25 models --- there is a teak face board provided between the back of the seat and the transom bulkhead.
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ ?action=view¤t=Boat_2225_FullTransom_SternSeat_Ins.jpg& t=1267125836681
My seat with ss legs will be about 79" long x 20" deep x 25" high so it is likely derived from the 25' model (it seems one wasn't designed for a 27' as such). Instead of fitting tight between the gunnels it will have about 7.5" space on either side.
Does anyone have the dimensions (& maybe also a photograph) of the teak face plate for the seat on a 25'? Failing this I could probably "gross-up" the seat/face board dimensions on the 20' or 22'
L H G posted 02-25-2010 03:57 PM ET (US)
See the last photo here for the transom header you are asking about. It is recessed into the glasswork for a flush finish.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html
At an expense of $1900, I just did a 25 Outrage stern seat installation. The Outrage 25 requires a 79" seat for full width installation, the way it was designed to be, but the vendor only made it 77", a mistake. Correction the situation was made so difficult and time consuming for me to have it reluctantly re-made, that I stayed with it. You can see in this photo that it is 1" short on each side. I installed blocking to take up the slack, and most people are not the wiser. So far, so good.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x44/ribside/miami041.jpg
In your case for a 27, I would recomend that you give the manufacturer the full inside dimension beween your gunwales, and have the seat made to that width. It will be a much nicer installation. Do not install one with the large gaps on each side. Won't look good, and you will have lateral stability problems. With my seat tightly wedged between the two gunwales and blocking I made, I found the screws through the back were not necessary. Use #14 screws to attach the seat to the U-shapped ss legs. Maybe 3 will be required for the wider seat?
Peter posted 02-25-2010 06:08 PM ET (US)
My 1989 Whaler 27 WD is equipped with the 6 foot wide Whaler stern seat that is also used in the 1992 to 1998 Outrage 24. I would not use a full or near full cockpit width stern seat because it will limit easy access to the two stern bulkhead access hatches.
The gap on each side does not look bad at all and there is no lateral strength problem because the Whaler aluminum frame is built to be support from the deck alone. You want a gap on both sides because that is where the cleats are and also to be able to stand at the stern corners of the cockpit.
In short, I would not build a larger version of the 25 stern seat system for the 27.
JMR posted 02-26-2010 07:00 PM ET (US)
LHG
Thank you for the response. The teak board looks to be fitted into a molded recess in the fiberglass of a custom rebuilt transom so the thickness remains a guess. Anyway I was expected it to be contoured so it is helpful to be referred to a picture of what it might look like.
You make a good point about the width of the seat. I have wrestled with this for some time. The 27' cockpit is about 94.75" between the gunnels and I am finding out if it can be done and for how much. Below is a photograph of what the 79" seat looks like on a 27' and one of a 27' with a modern full-width stern seat.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ Boat_27SternSeat_Terry.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ Boat_27_SternSeat.jpg
I am not sure that I would be that confident in dispensing with the screws through the bulkhead into the back of the seat which provide to give rigidity. I recall Tom Clark making some comments about the need for both fore and aft (U shaped legs) & side to side stiffness (screws on a full transom or shaped ss bar fastened to the back of the seat and gunnels on open transoms).
Peter:
I will have to look again at least at the battery switch access and also the salt water washdown hose/faucet. The thickness of the teak board will push out the seat a little and I figured that I would be able to get under the seat which only has slim U shaped legs.
Peter posted 02-26-2010 07:26 PM ET (US)
Here is an picture of my stern seat. i177.photobucket.com/albums/w231/Whaler-Fleet/1989%20Whaler%2027%20WD/ dfb4.jpg

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Author	Topic: Stern seat installation with full transom
JMR	posted 02-25-2010 03:27 PM ET (US) I am planning to install a contoured stern seat on my classic 27' (full transom). BW has an old drawing as per the link below for installation of such a seat on classic 20/22/25 models --- there is a teak face board provided between the back of the seat and the transom bulkhead. http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ ?action=view¤t=Boat_2225_FullTransom_SternSeat_Ins.jpg& t=1267125836681 My seat with ss legs will be about 79" long x 20" deep x 25" high so it is likely derived from the 25' model (it seems one wasn't designed for a 27' as such). Instead of fitting tight between the gunnels it will have about 7.5" space on either side. Does anyone have the dimensions (& maybe also a photograph) of the teak face plate for the seat on a 25'? Failing this I could probably "gross-up" the seat/face board dimensions on the 20' or 22'
L H G	posted 02-25-2010 03:57 PM ET (US) See the last photo here for the transom header you are asking about. It is recessed into the glasswork for a flush finish. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html At an expense of $1900, I just did a 25 Outrage stern seat installation. The Outrage 25 requires a 79" seat for full width installation, the way it was designed to be, but the vendor only made it 77", a mistake. Correction the situation was made so difficult and time consuming for me to have it reluctantly re-made, that I stayed with it. You can see in this photo that it is 1" short on each side. I installed blocking to take up the slack, and most people are not the wiser. So far, so good. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x44/ribside/miami041.jpg In your case for a 27, I would recomend that you give the manufacturer the full inside dimension beween your gunwales, and have the seat made to that width. It will be a much nicer installation. Do not install one with the large gaps on each side. Won't look good, and you will have lateral stability problems. With my seat tightly wedged between the two gunwales and blocking I made, I found the screws through the back were not necessary. Use #14 screws to attach the seat to the U-shapped ss legs. Maybe 3 will be required for the wider seat?
Peter	posted 02-25-2010 06:08 PM ET (US) My 1989 Whaler 27 WD is equipped with the 6 foot wide Whaler stern seat that is also used in the 1992 to 1998 Outrage 24. I would not use a full or near full cockpit width stern seat because it will limit easy access to the two stern bulkhead access hatches. The gap on each side does not look bad at all and there is no lateral strength problem because the Whaler aluminum frame is built to be support from the deck alone. You want a gap on both sides because that is where the cleats are and also to be able to stand at the stern corners of the cockpit. In short, I would not build a larger version of the 25 stern seat system for the 27.
JMR	posted 02-26-2010 07:00 PM ET (US) LHG Thank you for the response. The teak board looks to be fitted into a molded recess in the fiberglass of a custom rebuilt transom so the thickness remains a guess. Anyway I was expected it to be contoured so it is helpful to be referred to a picture of what it might look like. You make a good point about the width of the seat. I have wrestled with this for some time. The 27' cockpit is about 94.75" between the gunnels and I am finding out if it can be done and for how much. Below is a photograph of what the 79" seat looks like on a 27' and one of a 27' with a modern full-width stern seat. http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ Boat_27SternSeat_Terry.jpg http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/SternSeat/ Boat_27_SternSeat.jpg I am not sure that I would be that confident in dispensing with the screws through the bulkhead into the back of the seat which provide to give rigidity. I recall Tom Clark making some comments about the need for both fore and aft (U shaped legs) & side to side stiffness (screws on a full transom or shaped ss bar fastened to the back of the seat and gunnels on open transoms). Peter: I will have to look again at least at the battery switch access and also the salt water washdown hose/faucet. The thickness of the teak board will push out the seat a little and I figured that I would be able to get under the seat which only has slim U shaped legs.
Peter	posted 02-26-2010 07:26 PM ET (US) Here is an picture of my stern seat. i177.photobucket.com/albums/w231/Whaler-Fleet/1989%20Whaler%2027%20WD/ dfb4.jpg