OUTRAGE 22 Mechanical Steering Repair - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  OUTRAGE 22 Mechanical Steering Repair

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 22 Mechanical Steering Repair

Narragansett Outrage posted 06-23-2010 06:02 PM ET (US)
Have been searching on the site, but can't quite find what I'm looking for. I've attached a photo link below so that you can see the kind of helm I'm discussing.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/oscarboscar/IMG00008-20100623-1750.jpg
The boat is a 1984 Outrage 22. To the best of my knowledge, I believe the steering is a Teleflex dual cable Safe-T system. Yes, I'd love hydraulic, but financially I need to stick with replacing the bare minimum.
The steering started to make some "popping" noises as if the cable was jumping off the helm's groove. I think I've managed to figure out that steering cables are fine, but one of the helms (the forward unit) has lost some teeth.
Am I correct in assuming that this system is simply two identical single helms bolted together with spacers? And that therefore, one could replace just one of them?
If yes, I'm probably out of luck anyway because these things are so old that they probably don't make them anymore, so I'd have to go with two new units. If that's the case, then please tell me what unit(s) I can buy that will work with these "wire-wrapped" cables, and which will work with the current wheel.
Many, many thanks,
Clive
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-23-2010 06:32 PM ET (US)
Well, I think I answered my own question.
By looking on Jamestown Distributors website, I was able to deduce that the original system is a Teleflex SH5075P: Safe-T TS "Old Style."
And by searching on this site again, I see that someone has already had Teleflex tell them that they recommend replacing the entire system with the SS148 Kit.
Turns out that Jamestown has them on clearance (for the 15' - just what I need, it appears) for $359.
So there it is - I'm actually in RI, so I'll head over there tomorrow to pick it up. Please do let me know if you think I'm making a mistake!
L H G posted 06-23-2010 08:10 PM ET (US)
Yes, you're making a costly mistake!
Unless your boat goes a lot faster than 50 MPH and steering flutter would be a problem, the dual cable system is a waste of money.
You want the single cable NFB system, shown here for $189. These guys have the best pricing around, and give fast service. I have bought steering components from them and can recommend them.
https://www.surplusunlimited.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY& Category_Code=2200-30
Be sure to properly install a Steersman grease and O-ring nut to prevent freeze up of the steering ram.
L H G posted 06-23-2010 08:14 PM ET (US)
PS: A 15' cable sounds short for a 22 Outrage. I would double check that length.
Jeff posted 06-23-2010 08:36 PM ET (US)
I agree with Larry on both fronts. In most cases the steering cable is +/- a foot or so of the hull length. When I pulled mine out while rebuilding the floor it was about 21' long.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-23-2010 10:32 PM ET (US)
Well that sucks - I just got through spending a fortune on the Yamaha dual cable bracket. I just replaced the original '83 Evinrude 235 with an old 2001 OX66 (for which I also had to replace all the rigging).
The old rigging included a dual cable set up, so I figured that that was what was needed.
Well, I think I'll stick with the dual cable set up - but I will certainly check the length of the cables again - am pretty sure that I'm looking at either 15 or 16'.
Jeff posted 06-23-2010 11:03 PM ET (US)
Clive
I just realized something important you forgot to mention. You have a 22 Outrage cuddy correct? Being your console is mounted more aft than a standard 22 Outrage due to the cuddy it would be shorter. Still 15-16 feet does seems short still.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-23-2010 11:14 PM ET (US)
Jeff - was just taking a look at Jason's Outrage that he has for sale (http://www.classicseacraft.com/1986OR2/index.html); unless I'm mistaken, that's dual cable steering that he's got for that 225.
I guess what's you guys are saying is that it's not absolutely necessary to have the dual (in fact, would be nice to have that extra room in the run under the deck)... but it's not going to hurt anything other than my wallet.
Yes, mine is a Cuddy. Will definitely try to get a better measurement tomorrow before I go shopping....
Thanks,
C.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-24-2010 09:55 AM ET (US)
Incidentally, what exactly is, "steering flutter"?
Tom W Clark posted 06-24-2010 10:14 AM ET (US)
Do NOT use a single cable steering system with a 225 outboard motor. It is dangerous if the cable fails and there is much more slop in the system.
The dual cable system is very nice *if* it adjusted correctly so that one cable takes out the slop in the other. Teleflex has detailed instructions for adjusting their dual cable systems.
Yes, by all means replace both cables at the same time. Whatever wear has occurred to one will have been happening to the other whether it has actually failed or not.
The length of the existing cables will be coded on the cables themselves. Look for a part number on the cables and the last two digits will be its cable length.
Unfortunately, the exploded parts diagram for the Outrage 22 Cuddy does not indicate the length of the steering cable but 15 feet seems way to short to me as well; hell, the Montauk uses an 18 foot cable.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-24-2010 12:58 PM ET (US)
That's what I was thinking, Tom (with regards to only using one cable); it's actually a 250, and relying on the integrity of one cable seems a little dangerous... when those cables snap, the motor is on its own to turn whichever way.
I read someone else's post here about their boat attempting to make a 90-degree turn on plane after their single cable snapped... no thank you.
With regards to length of cable, I haven't yet removed the old one, but I can say that it is approx. 4 feet from the helm to the outside edge of the gunnel, 8' from mid- console to the back of the transom, and 4 feet from the outside edge of the gunnel to the end of the steering cable. So about 16'. But again, I'll get an exact measurement this evening (I hope).
Tom W Clark posted 06-24-2010 01:04 PM ET (US)
I found an exploded parts diagram for the Outrage 22 (not Cuddy) and it lists a pair of 19' Teleflex cables for that model.
If the console in the Cuddy is further astern (and I'm not convinced that it is) it is only a matter of a few inches not three or four feet.
I'd go with the 19's if you cannot confirm what yours are.
Tom W Clark posted 06-24-2010 01:10 PM ET (US)
You are not including the vertical distance for the tunnel to the helm as well as the bends the cables make inside the console.
That will add about three feet to your measurements for 19 feet total.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-24-2010 02:00 PM ET (US)
Hmmm. OK, 19' then.
Just looking at the Teleflex kits, I see they only offer cables (in the kits) from 12-16'.
So here's a question - does anyone know whether, if I just buy the new helm (SH4920P, which I can get for about $200), my old cables willl work with it? As I said, the cables appear to be fine.
Tom W Clark posted 06-24-2010 02:29 PM ET (US)
No. your existing cables will not work with the new SH4920P helm.
Regardless of what fits or doesn't fit, I would not want to be reusing 26 year old steering cables.
Tom W Clark posted 06-24-2010 03:24 PM ET (US)
Ye,s it appears the SS148 kits are only available with 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 foot cables.
Too bad as you can buy the whole kit with two cables for as little as $352.
I think i'd start looking at the SeaStar hydraulic systems. You can get the whole kit for less than $800.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-24-2010 04:08 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Tom. Have found the helm for $190 on a couple of sites, and the 19' cables are on sale at Jamestown Distributors for $80/each. Given that I don't need the bezel (or whatever it is that comes in the kit), that's $370, give or take with shipping. Will have to stick with cable for now, methinks... especially after having already purchased the Yamaha dual cable bracket.
Clive
L H G posted 06-24-2010 06:21 PM ET (US)
Well, when I responded with a single cable recommendation, there was no indication of a 250 horse outboard. So a single cable obviously won't work.
The reason the dual cable systems only go to 16' is that they are basically designed for bass boat application.
On an offshore boat with a 250, hydraulic seems mandatory to me.
Narragansett Outrage posted 06-24-2010 07:00 PM ET (US)
Very true, Larry, I didn't mention the size of the motor.
I'd certainly like a hydraulic system, but again, the price of the set-up (and the money already sunk into the cable system) is somewhat prohibitive at the moment.
As a matter of interest, you say that a hydraulic system would be, "mandatory" for an offshore boat - wouldn't a dual cable set up be more reliable (or at least fail-safe) than a hydraulic system? Seems to me that if you have a loss of hydraulic fluid (or otherwise spring a leak), you're done. With the push-pull cable system, even if one cable snaps, you've still got the other one.
Clive

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 22 Mechanical Steering Repair
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-23-2010 06:02 PM ET (US) Have been searching on the site, but can't quite find what I'm looking for. I've attached a photo link below so that you can see the kind of helm I'm discussing. http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/oscarboscar/IMG00008-20100623-1750.jpg The boat is a 1984 Outrage 22. To the best of my knowledge, I believe the steering is a Teleflex dual cable Safe-T system. Yes, I'd love hydraulic, but financially I need to stick with replacing the bare minimum. The steering started to make some "popping" noises as if the cable was jumping off the helm's groove. I think I've managed to figure out that steering cables are fine, but one of the helms (the forward unit) has lost some teeth. Am I correct in assuming that this system is simply two identical single helms bolted together with spacers? And that therefore, one could replace just one of them? If yes, I'm probably out of luck anyway because these things are so old that they probably don't make them anymore, so I'd have to go with two new units. If that's the case, then please tell me what unit(s) I can buy that will work with these "wire-wrapped" cables, and which will work with the current wheel. Many, many thanks, Clive
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-23-2010 06:32 PM ET (US) Well, I think I answered my own question. By looking on Jamestown Distributors website, I was able to deduce that the original system is a Teleflex SH5075P: Safe-T TS "Old Style." And by searching on this site again, I see that someone has already had Teleflex tell them that they recommend replacing the entire system with the SS148 Kit. Turns out that Jamestown has them on clearance (for the 15' - just what I need, it appears) for $359. So there it is - I'm actually in RI, so I'll head over there tomorrow to pick it up. Please do let me know if you think I'm making a mistake!
L H G	posted 06-23-2010 08:10 PM ET (US) Yes, you're making a costly mistake! Unless your boat goes a lot faster than 50 MPH and steering flutter would be a problem, the dual cable system is a waste of money. You want the single cable NFB system, shown here for $189. These guys have the best pricing around, and give fast service. I have bought steering components from them and can recommend them. https://www.surplusunlimited.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY& Category_Code=2200-30 Be sure to properly install a Steersman grease and O-ring nut to prevent freeze up of the steering ram.
L H G	posted 06-23-2010 08:14 PM ET (US) PS: A 15' cable sounds short for a 22 Outrage. I would double check that length.
Jeff	posted 06-23-2010 08:36 PM ET (US) I agree with Larry on both fronts. In most cases the steering cable is +/- a foot or so of the hull length. When I pulled mine out while rebuilding the floor it was about 21' long.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-23-2010 10:32 PM ET (US) Well that sucks - I just got through spending a fortune on the Yamaha dual cable bracket. I just replaced the original '83 Evinrude 235 with an old 2001 OX66 (for which I also had to replace all the rigging). The old rigging included a dual cable set up, so I figured that that was what was needed. Well, I think I'll stick with the dual cable set up - but I will certainly check the length of the cables again - am pretty sure that I'm looking at either 15 or 16'.
Jeff	posted 06-23-2010 11:03 PM ET (US) Clive I just realized something important you forgot to mention. You have a 22 Outrage cuddy correct? Being your console is mounted more aft than a standard 22 Outrage due to the cuddy it would be shorter. Still 15-16 feet does seems short still.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-23-2010 11:14 PM ET (US) Jeff - was just taking a look at Jason's Outrage that he has for sale (http://www.classicseacraft.com/1986OR2/index.html); unless I'm mistaken, that's dual cable steering that he's got for that 225. I guess what's you guys are saying is that it's not absolutely necessary to have the dual (in fact, would be nice to have that extra room in the run under the deck)... but it's not going to hurt anything other than my wallet. Yes, mine is a Cuddy. Will definitely try to get a better measurement tomorrow before I go shopping.... Thanks, C.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-24-2010 09:55 AM ET (US) Incidentally, what exactly is, "steering flutter"?
Tom W Clark	posted 06-24-2010 10:14 AM ET (US) Do NOT use a single cable steering system with a 225 outboard motor. It is dangerous if the cable fails and there is much more slop in the system. The dual cable system is very nice if it adjusted correctly so that one cable takes out the slop in the other. Teleflex has detailed instructions for adjusting their dual cable systems. Yes, by all means replace both cables at the same time. Whatever wear has occurred to one will have been happening to the other whether it has actually failed or not. The length of the existing cables will be coded on the cables themselves. Look for a part number on the cables and the last two digits will be its cable length. Unfortunately, the exploded parts diagram for the Outrage 22 Cuddy does not indicate the length of the steering cable but 15 feet seems way to short to me as well; hell, the Montauk uses an 18 foot cable.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-24-2010 12:58 PM ET (US) That's what I was thinking, Tom (with regards to only using one cable); it's actually a 250, and relying on the integrity of one cable seems a little dangerous... when those cables snap, the motor is on its own to turn whichever way. I read someone else's post here about their boat attempting to make a 90-degree turn on plane after their single cable snapped... no thank you. With regards to length of cable, I haven't yet removed the old one, but I can say that it is approx. 4 feet from the helm to the outside edge of the gunnel, 8' from mid- console to the back of the transom, and 4 feet from the outside edge of the gunnel to the end of the steering cable. So about 16'. But again, I'll get an exact measurement this evening (I hope).
Tom W Clark	posted 06-24-2010 01:04 PM ET (US) I found an exploded parts diagram for the Outrage 22 (not Cuddy) and it lists a pair of 19' Teleflex cables for that model. If the console in the Cuddy is further astern (and I'm not convinced that it is) it is only a matter of a few inches not three or four feet. I'd go with the 19's if you cannot confirm what yours are.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-24-2010 01:10 PM ET (US) You are not including the vertical distance for the tunnel to the helm as well as the bends the cables make inside the console. That will add about three feet to your measurements for 19 feet total.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-24-2010 02:00 PM ET (US) Hmmm. OK, 19' then. Just looking at the Teleflex kits, I see they only offer cables (in the kits) from 12-16'. So here's a question - does anyone know whether, if I just buy the new helm (SH4920P, which I can get for about $200), my old cables willl work with it? As I said, the cables appear to be fine.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-24-2010 02:29 PM ET (US) No. your existing cables will not work with the new SH4920P helm. Regardless of what fits or doesn't fit, I would not want to be reusing 26 year old steering cables.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-24-2010 03:24 PM ET (US) Ye,s it appears the SS148 kits are only available with 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 foot cables. Too bad as you can buy the whole kit with two cables for as little as $352. I think i'd start looking at the SeaStar hydraulic systems. You can get the whole kit for less than $800.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-24-2010 04:08 PM ET (US) Thanks, Tom. Have found the helm for $190 on a couple of sites, and the 19' cables are on sale at Jamestown Distributors for $80/each. Given that I don't need the bezel (or whatever it is that comes in the kit), that's $370, give or take with shipping. Will have to stick with cable for now, methinks... especially after having already purchased the Yamaha dual cable bracket. Clive
L H G	posted 06-24-2010 06:21 PM ET (US) Well, when I responded with a single cable recommendation, there was no indication of a 250 horse outboard. So a single cable obviously won't work. The reason the dual cable systems only go to 16' is that they are basically designed for bass boat application. On an offshore boat with a 250, hydraulic seems mandatory to me.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 06-24-2010 07:00 PM ET (US) Very true, Larry, I didn't mention the size of the motor. I'd certainly like a hydraulic system, but again, the price of the set-up (and the money already sunk into the cable system) is somewhat prohibitive at the moment. As a matter of interest, you say that a hydraulic system would be, "mandatory" for an offshore boat - wouldn't a dual cable set up be more reliable (or at least fail-safe) than a hydraulic system? Seems to me that if you have a loss of hydraulic fluid (or otherwise spring a leak), you're done. With the push-pull cable system, even if one cable snaps, you've still got the other one. Clive