17-Foot Center Console: Bait Well Pump With Thru-Hull

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Author Topic:   17-Foot Center Console: Bait Well Pump With Thru-Hull

nitro vinny posted 08-24-2010 08:56 AM ET (US)
I've decided that during the remodeling, refitting, and re-gelcoating of my Boston Whaler 17-foot center console it'll be a good idea to install a thru hull, bait well, and washdown pump. While pondering the deck area alongside the stern opening of the rigging tunnel, which is already cut open for other purposes, I had this idea. as follows. Alongside the rigging tunnel's stern opening make another opening of a size adequate to install a box made to accept the following:
--a small thru-hull [with an attached or integral] pump for a bait well;
--a thru-hull SONAR transducer; and
--a bilge pump.
The box would be 3/8-inch Baltic birch plywood encased in three coats of West System epoxy. The sealing of this box to the hull and to the side of the rigging tunnel would be accomplished with West Systems thickened epoxy. The sealing of the box to the deck would be accomplished with epoxy and four-ounce fiberglass cloth.
I would especially appreciate guidance on an appropriate 3/4-inch NPS thru-hull fitting and on thru-hull bait pumps.
I have the skill-set to accomplish this project but would like to hear from anyone who has done similar refitting.
Thanks in advance for your help.
contender posted 08-24-2010 11:26 AM ET (US)
Nitro: Are you going to put a permanent live well in your boat, or is it going to be removable? If removable I would look for a self-priming pump that would fill your live well just by throwing a pickup over the side. Your transducer needs to be able to shoot straight down, I would look at making something that would bolt or attach to the outside transom. Try to attach it to or make a bracket coming off the engine, no holes in the transom. The water pick up drilling through the hull I would be worried about the water pressure while underway working on the fitting and forcing water into the hull. Done right it probably will not happen. I never have had a bilge pump on any of my Boston Whaler boat. I just pull the drain plug while underway to drain the water. Nitro, I can understand what you are trying to do, however, I think the amount of work you will have to do is a lot more than what you are trying to achieve. Here is a thought for your water pick up: remove the current drain plug brass, purchase a brass pipe tube 1-inch with a tee on the inside of the boat, attach your pick up to the 90-side of the tee and plug the straight through for your drain. Now the water pressure will not be on the fitting, the hole is already in the hull, nothing will be on the bottom of the your boat, and you have your water pick up. Good luck
tedious posted 08-24-2010 12:45 PM ET (US)
Although this is not the question you asked, you might want to consider using a composite such as Coosa Board (http://www.coosacomposites.com/) instead of the plywood. I'm just not comfortable with wood in the bilge area, no matter how many coats of whatever substance protects it.
Tim
nitro vinny posted 08-24-2010 01:10 PM ET (US)
Contender: Thanks, as always, for your input. Got a lot of time on my hands and want to use it to "trick-out" my Whaler. One reason for the extra work is to de-clutter the boats interior as well as the transom. There are many posts on CW regarding bad situations involving stuff attached to the transom. As currently planned, any water that should leak into the aforementioned box would run into the rigging tunnel before it was able to get onto the deck of the boat. As for the bilge pump: I've been caught in terrific thunderstorms in Sapelo Sound when being able to use the drain plug hasn't been much of an option. I spent enough time in the Coast Guard to appreciate having options. The transducer situation will be handled by leveling a portion of the bottom of the box area to attach it in a parallel (to the water) position.
Tedious: Thanks for the tip on that composite material.
Nitro
SJUAE posted 08-24-2010 01:22 PM ET (US)
NV
Nice to see you have expanded your project to just casting a block for your transducer. I have three things for you to consider:
--make sure the box is not in line with your trailer bunks or rollers as a sudden hard point on the hull may induce stress cracks in adjacent areas
--I would suggest not to use wood, even a plastic chopping board cut up and completely glassed in would be fine
--you only need a 3/4-inch bronze sea cock with valve in the box; the bait pump can be located any where for ease of maintenance and wiring/plumbing
Regards
Steve
nitro vinny posted 08-24-2010 04:00 PM ET (US)
SJUAE--sounds like composites are what I need to use. All I need to do is find scrap and I have it made. You mentioned a plastic cutting board. What kind of plastic?
Vince
SJUAE posted 08-24-2010 04:46 PM ET (US)
Vince
Polyethylene type
http://www.amazon.com/Stanton-Trading-2-Inch-Cutting-Board/dp/ B0032AM0BC/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&qid=1282681987&sr=1-14
I can,t get starboard here and have used this in the bilge area for mounting my remote oil tank and I made a couple of infill seats using it
It cuts and bolts together ok and is alright for light screwing as it,s a bit soft, usually you can use countersunk set screws and nuts. At 1/2" think it's strong enough for most things and you are just using it as a core for the glass layup should be fine an easy to get
Regards
Steve
tedious posted 08-24-2010 05:24 PM ET (US)
Just be aware that epoxy or other glues may not stick to cutting board material - I know it won't to Starboard.

Tim
jimh posted 08-24-2010 06:33 PM ET (US)
Most polymer resins will not adhere to ultra-high molecular weight plastics.
Stevebaz posted 08-24-2010 07:27 PM ET (US)
Why not just make your own box from fiberglass? You are doing glass work anyway. Just get a cardboard box the right size and wrap it with Polyethelene Plastic bag material. Glass the box with a couple of layers of glass and resin. After cure trim the box with a grinder and remove the box and the plastic sheet. Clean it, fill it and add more glass and resin as necessary. Then fit this to the hull where you want it and after you glass that in, gelcoat the whole thing. You can use most tupperware containers as resin usually wont stick to them eithor and they also have nice round corners and good draft angles. Just figure what ever you use your going to destroy it when you remove it. Work slow just one or two layers at a time and let them cure and you wont have to fight the lay-up. This all works since your not doing a structural lay-up where some voids and air bubbles wont kill the project.
nitro vinny posted 08-24-2010 07:42 PM ET (US)
I think I'll make a one-off plug from scrap plywood and let er' rip. Thanks for the help. When the Whaler is finished I look forward to posting pics.
dfmcintyre posted 08-24-2010 10:15 PM ET (US)
Vinny--While this suggestion or concept will not answer the bait well pump location, I think it might give you another direction for mounting of a transducer:
Years ago, I recall a how-to-do article regarding an liquid (oil) filled chamber created in a fiberglass hulled boat that had a transducer installed in it. Evidently the liquid allowed for the transducers energy not to become deflected or seriously reduced and the transmitted signal passed through the hull and was returned.
The article said that there was some reduction in range, but it was a trade off, as there was no drilling through the hull. It also didn't mention how thick the fiberglass was in that hull area.
If you've got that area open down to bottom of the hull, it might be worth an experiment. I'd just find a piece of plastic plumbing schedule-4 pipe large enough to fit your transducer, temporarily epoxy or polycaulk it to the bilge floor, fill with liquid and experiment.
Regards - Don
SJUAE posted 08-25-2010 01:49 AM ET (US)
Gents--I agree most fiberglass resins have poor adhesion to high density platics like polyethylene
As Vince was only using it really as form work in this situation, being encased in a layup should of been no problem
The few applications I have used this material I have only used mechanical fasteners
Regards
Steve
jimh posted 08-25-2010 08:16 AM ET (US)
On some larger Boston Whaler boats, there was an option for a water pick-up to be installed through the hull. However, this option was noted as being a factory-only option. That is, the option was to be installed at the factory as the time of manufacture, and not fitted later by a dealer. This was perhaps due to concern about the integrity of the hull and providing the ten-year hull warranty guarantee.
A through-hull water pick-up can result in a high-pressure water coming out of the pick-up, and any fitting or hose attached to the through-hull water pick-up will need to be strong enough to withstand the pressure. Usually the water pick-up is oriented forward like a scoop, and they usually have a strainer guard built into them.
Russ 13 posted 08-25-2010 02:18 PM ET (US)
I added a livewell pickup & drain to my 13'
I used a 4 inch hole saw to go throuth the deck & foam.
The through hull fittings are brass w/scoops.
Both from West Marine, 3/4 inch size fittings.
The fittings were installed with 5200, one facing forward
(inlet) one facing aft (outlet).
I used fiberglass cloth & resin to make each pocket.
The inner foam provinding the shape.
I cleaned & roughed up the inside of the outer hull & deck area before starting the glass pocket work.
I taped off the deck area around each pocket before starting. There is a small 1/2 inch lip where the pocket attaches to the deck in a circle.
Finished with desert tan gelcoat, other than the 1/2 lip, it looks like a factory install.
Both pockets are inside the console, with the livewell pump
attached to the inlet, and a drain hose attached to the other. This works and sealed very well. no problems with the through hull fittings, and no hoses all over the boat.
The pump keeps the water out of the livewell, untill turned on.
Good luck with your "mods".
contender posted 08-25-2010 08:56 PM ET (US)
Russ, sounds good can you post some pictures, Always like new ideas and someone that can think outside of the box...Thanks
Russ 13 posted 08-26-2010 09:33 AM ET (US)
I can post some photo's next week, out of town right now.
I have them in my home computer, I noticed all photo's are seperate from this forum, I do not have a photobucket account, but I could E-Mail them to you.
nitro vinny posted 08-26-2010 09:46 AM ET (US)
Russ, Sounds like you ended up where I hope to get. What pump did you use? How critical was it that the pump you used be below the waterline? With the pump I have being below the water line is critical. As I've never seen my boat in the water, I'm having a bit of trouble determining just where the waterline (under normal operating conditins) is . Thanks for the encouragement. Vince
nitro vinny posted 08-26-2010 10:18 AM ET (US)
Russ, My e-mail address is vzap@charter.net when you get around to sending pictures. Vince
contender posted 08-26-2010 09:58 PM ET (US)
Nitro, Tried to send you an email, will not go through
Tonym posted 08-26-2010 10:58 PM ET (US)
Vince,
I installed a through-hull water pick-up and through-hull transducer in my 1988 18 foot 6 inch Rigid Raider. I cut a rectangular opening in the splash well and ground the foam out to the inside of the hull. We used the Existing foam as a base to glass and seal the sides in the form of a bilge. Once the water pick up was installed we put a seacock on top of that and then attached a Bait pump on top of the seacock. The hose from the bait pump that ran to the live bait well was run though the utility tunnel along with the wiring. When underway and not fishing or if the boat is in the slip we leave the seacock closed. When we go fishing we open the seacock up and turn the bait pump on. You can actually fill your live bait tank just with the seacock open depending on how fast you are going. The transducer is on the starboard side of the keel and the water pick up is on the port side to avoid any disturbances affecting the transducer reception. My live bait tank is a 32 gallon oval by Kodiac. We also put an automatic Rule bilge down there for any leakage. It works great. Tonym
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tonybccablemas/ Bilge%20Construction/
nitro vinny posted 08-27-2010 10:26 AM ET (US)
Contender: Not sure why the e-mail didn't go through. If you took the address off of the post via cut and paste there might have been an unseen blank space at the beginning or end of the address. Also try zappaddles@charter.net
nitro vinny posted 08-27-2010 10:42 AM ET (US)
The project is going (somewhat) smoothly. The size of a scoop type thru-hull fitting looks like a sitting target for whatever I might get too close to when polling in skinny water. Therefore, I'm considering not using a scoop type pick-up for the through hull fitting. Instead, I've got a brass nipple threaded into the hull and facing slightly forward to create a bit of a scoop; not much of a scoop but it should prevent any sort of siphon effect while underway. To secure the nipple in place I've created a well with a piece of 2" pvc DWV pipe to match the deadrise. To secure the brass nipple in place, this well will be filled with the more durable G-Flex.
Beautiful installation Tonym.

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Author	Topic: 17-Foot Center Console: Bait Well Pump With Thru-Hull
nitro vinny	posted 08-24-2010 08:56 AM ET (US) I've decided that during the remodeling, refitting, and re-gelcoating of my Boston Whaler 17-foot center console it'll be a good idea to install a thru hull, bait well, and washdown pump. While pondering the deck area alongside the stern opening of the rigging tunnel, which is already cut open for other purposes, I had this idea. as follows. Alongside the rigging tunnel's stern opening make another opening of a size adequate to install a box made to accept the following: --a small thru-hull [with an attached or integral] pump for a bait well; --a thru-hull SONAR transducer; and --a bilge pump. The box would be 3/8-inch Baltic birch plywood encased in three coats of West System epoxy. The sealing of this box to the hull and to the side of the rigging tunnel would be accomplished with West Systems thickened epoxy. The sealing of the box to the deck would be accomplished with epoxy and four-ounce fiberglass cloth. I would especially appreciate guidance on an appropriate 3/4-inch NPS thru-hull fitting and on thru-hull bait pumps. I have the skill-set to accomplish this project but would like to hear from anyone who has done similar refitting. Thanks in advance for your help.
contender	posted 08-24-2010 11:26 AM ET (US) Nitro: Are you going to put a permanent live well in your boat, or is it going to be removable? If removable I would look for a self-priming pump that would fill your live well just by throwing a pickup over the side. Your transducer needs to be able to shoot straight down, I would look at making something that would bolt or attach to the outside transom. Try to attach it to or make a bracket coming off the engine, no holes in the transom. The water pick up drilling through the hull I would be worried about the water pressure while underway working on the fitting and forcing water into the hull. Done right it probably will not happen. I never have had a bilge pump on any of my Boston Whaler boat. I just pull the drain plug while underway to drain the water. Nitro, I can understand what you are trying to do, however, I think the amount of work you will have to do is a lot more than what you are trying to achieve. Here is a thought for your water pick up: remove the current drain plug brass, purchase a brass pipe tube 1-inch with a tee on the inside of the boat, attach your pick up to the 90-side of the tee and plug the straight through for your drain. Now the water pressure will not be on the fitting, the hole is already in the hull, nothing will be on the bottom of the your boat, and you have your water pick up. Good luck
tedious	posted 08-24-2010 12:45 PM ET (US) Although this is not the question you asked, you might want to consider using a composite such as Coosa Board (http://www.coosacomposites.com/) instead of the plywood. I'm just not comfortable with wood in the bilge area, no matter how many coats of whatever substance protects it. Tim
nitro vinny	posted 08-24-2010 01:10 PM ET (US) Contender: Thanks, as always, for your input. Got a lot of time on my hands and want to use it to "trick-out" my Whaler. One reason for the extra work is to de-clutter the boats interior as well as the transom. There are many posts on CW regarding bad situations involving stuff attached to the transom. As currently planned, any water that should leak into the aforementioned box would run into the rigging tunnel before it was able to get onto the deck of the boat. As for the bilge pump: I've been caught in terrific thunderstorms in Sapelo Sound when being able to use the drain plug hasn't been much of an option. I spent enough time in the Coast Guard to appreciate having options. The transducer situation will be handled by leveling a portion of the bottom of the box area to attach it in a parallel (to the water) position. Tedious: Thanks for the tip on that composite material. Nitro
SJUAE	posted 08-24-2010 01:22 PM ET (US) NV Nice to see you have expanded your project to just casting a block for your transducer. I have three things for you to consider: --make sure the box is not in line with your trailer bunks or rollers as a sudden hard point on the hull may induce stress cracks in adjacent areas --I would suggest not to use wood, even a plastic chopping board cut up and completely glassed in would be fine --you only need a 3/4-inch bronze sea cock with valve in the box; the bait pump can be located any where for ease of maintenance and wiring/plumbing Regards Steve
nitro vinny	posted 08-24-2010 04:00 PM ET (US) SJUAE--sounds like composites are what I need to use. All I need to do is find scrap and I have it made. You mentioned a plastic cutting board. What kind of plastic? Vince
SJUAE	posted 08-24-2010 04:46 PM ET (US) Vince Polyethylene type http://www.amazon.com/Stanton-Trading-2-Inch-Cutting-Board/dp/ B0032AM0BC/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen&qid=1282681987&sr=1-14 I can,t get starboard here and have used this in the bilge area for mounting my remote oil tank and I made a couple of infill seats using it It cuts and bolts together ok and is alright for light screwing as it,s a bit soft, usually you can use countersunk set screws and nuts. At 1/2" think it's strong enough for most things and you are just using it as a core for the glass layup should be fine an easy to get Regards Steve
tedious	posted 08-24-2010 05:24 PM ET (US) Just be aware that epoxy or other glues may not stick to cutting board material - I know it won't to Starboard. Tim
jimh	posted 08-24-2010 06:33 PM ET (US) Most polymer resins will not adhere to ultra-high molecular weight plastics.
Stevebaz	posted 08-24-2010 07:27 PM ET (US) Why not just make your own box from fiberglass? You are doing glass work anyway. Just get a cardboard box the right size and wrap it with Polyethelene Plastic bag material. Glass the box with a couple of layers of glass and resin. After cure trim the box with a grinder and remove the box and the plastic sheet. Clean it, fill it and add more glass and resin as necessary. Then fit this to the hull where you want it and after you glass that in, gelcoat the whole thing. You can use most tupperware containers as resin usually wont stick to them eithor and they also have nice round corners and good draft angles. Just figure what ever you use your going to destroy it when you remove it. Work slow just one or two layers at a time and let them cure and you wont have to fight the lay-up. This all works since your not doing a structural lay-up where some voids and air bubbles wont kill the project.
nitro vinny	posted 08-24-2010 07:42 PM ET (US) I think I'll make a one-off plug from scrap plywood and let er' rip. Thanks for the help. When the Whaler is finished I look forward to posting pics.
dfmcintyre	posted 08-24-2010 10:15 PM ET (US) Vinny--While this suggestion or concept will not answer the bait well pump location, I think it might give you another direction for mounting of a transducer: Years ago, I recall a how-to-do article regarding an liquid (oil) filled chamber created in a fiberglass hulled boat that had a transducer installed in it. Evidently the liquid allowed for the transducers energy not to become deflected or seriously reduced and the transmitted signal passed through the hull and was returned. The article said that there was some reduction in range, but it was a trade off, as there was no drilling through the hull. It also didn't mention how thick the fiberglass was in that hull area. If you've got that area open down to bottom of the hull, it might be worth an experiment. I'd just find a piece of plastic plumbing schedule-4 pipe large enough to fit your transducer, temporarily epoxy or polycaulk it to the bilge floor, fill with liquid and experiment. Regards - Don
SJUAE	posted 08-25-2010 01:49 AM ET (US) Gents--I agree most fiberglass resins have poor adhesion to high density platics like polyethylene As Vince was only using it really as form work in this situation, being encased in a layup should of been no problem The few applications I have used this material I have only used mechanical fasteners Regards Steve
jimh	posted 08-25-2010 08:16 AM ET (US) On some larger Boston Whaler boats, there was an option for a water pick-up to be installed through the hull. However, this option was noted as being a factory-only option. That is, the option was to be installed at the factory as the time of manufacture, and not fitted later by a dealer. This was perhaps due to concern about the integrity of the hull and providing the ten-year hull warranty guarantee. A through-hull water pick-up can result in a high-pressure water coming out of the pick-up, and any fitting or hose attached to the through-hull water pick-up will need to be strong enough to withstand the pressure. Usually the water pick-up is oriented forward like a scoop, and they usually have a strainer guard built into them.
Russ 13	posted 08-25-2010 02:18 PM ET (US) I added a livewell pickup & drain to my 13' I used a 4 inch hole saw to go throuth the deck & foam. The through hull fittings are brass w/scoops. Both from West Marine, 3/4 inch size fittings. The fittings were installed with 5200, one facing forward (inlet) one facing aft (outlet). I used fiberglass cloth & resin to make each pocket. The inner foam provinding the shape. I cleaned & roughed up the inside of the outer hull & deck area before starting the glass pocket work. I taped off the deck area around each pocket before starting. There is a small 1/2 inch lip where the pocket attaches to the deck in a circle. Finished with desert tan gelcoat, other than the 1/2 lip, it looks like a factory install. Both pockets are inside the console, with the livewell pump attached to the inlet, and a drain hose attached to the other. This works and sealed very well. no problems with the through hull fittings, and no hoses all over the boat. The pump keeps the water out of the livewell, untill turned on. Good luck with your "mods".
contender	posted 08-25-2010 08:56 PM ET (US) Russ, sounds good can you post some pictures, Always like new ideas and someone that can think outside of the box...Thanks
Russ 13	posted 08-26-2010 09:33 AM ET (US) I can post some photo's next week, out of town right now. I have them in my home computer, I noticed all photo's are seperate from this forum, I do not have a photobucket account, but I could E-Mail them to you.
nitro vinny	posted 08-26-2010 09:46 AM ET (US) Russ, Sounds like you ended up where I hope to get. What pump did you use? How critical was it that the pump you used be below the waterline? With the pump I have being below the water line is critical. As I've never seen my boat in the water, I'm having a bit of trouble determining just where the waterline (under normal operating conditins) is . Thanks for the encouragement. Vince
nitro vinny	posted 08-26-2010 10:18 AM ET (US) Russ, My e-mail address is vzap@charter.net when you get around to sending pictures. Vince
contender	posted 08-26-2010 09:58 PM ET (US) Nitro, Tried to send you an email, will not go through
Tonym	posted 08-26-2010 10:58 PM ET (US) Vince, I installed a through-hull water pick-up and through-hull transducer in my 1988 18 foot 6 inch Rigid Raider. I cut a rectangular opening in the splash well and ground the foam out to the inside of the hull. We used the Existing foam as a base to glass and seal the sides in the form of a bilge. Once the water pick up was installed we put a seacock on top of that and then attached a Bait pump on top of the seacock. The hose from the bait pump that ran to the live bait well was run though the utility tunnel along with the wiring. When underway and not fishing or if the boat is in the slip we leave the seacock closed. When we go fishing we open the seacock up and turn the bait pump on. You can actually fill your live bait tank just with the seacock open depending on how fast you are going. The transducer is on the starboard side of the keel and the water pick up is on the port side to avoid any disturbances affecting the transducer reception. My live bait tank is a 32 gallon oval by Kodiac. We also put an automatic Rule bilge down there for any leakage. It works great. Tonym http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tonybccablemas/ Bilge%20Construction/
nitro vinny	posted 08-27-2010 10:26 AM ET (US) Contender: Not sure why the e-mail didn't go through. If you took the address off of the post via cut and paste there might have been an unseen blank space at the beginning or end of the address. Also try zappaddles@charter.net
nitro vinny	posted 08-27-2010 10:42 AM ET (US) The project is going (somewhat) smoothly. The size of a scoop type thru-hull fitting looks like a sitting target for whatever I might get too close to when polling in skinny water. Therefore, I'm considering not using a scoop type pick-up for the through hull fitting. Instead, I've got a brass nipple threaded into the hull and facing slightly forward to create a bit of a scoop; not much of a scoop but it should prevent any sort of siphon effect while underway. To secure the nipple in place I've created a well with a piece of 2" pvc DWV pipe to match the deadrise. To secure the brass nipple in place, this well will be filled with the more durable G-Flex. Beautiful installation Tonym.