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Author Topic:   Outrage Teak Gunwale Substitute

FISHNFF posted 02-25-2011 01:08 AM ET (US)
I've read both sides of the fence. My 1988 18 Outrage has the teak gunwales. Beautiful beyond compare when lovingly cared for. But I'm more of a wash and put away guy. I take care of mechanicical things meticulously, but I like a wash with SaltX with an occasional wax. Not a wood guy.
So. Has anyone replaced their wooden gunwales with anything else? I read of one who did aluminum. Hmm... Nice, but not my personal choice.
I thought of an entire Starboard replacement. Or capping with Starboard.
Clean teak, finish, and coat with a UV stabil 2 part epoxy?
What to do?
FISHNFF
Buckda posted 02-25-2011 08:53 AM ET (US)
Frankly, an Aluminum gunwale coated with a quality marine paint or even fiberglass and gelcoat would be my choice if I were to lose my marbles and decide to replace teak with something non wood.
:)
My advice: go find your marbles!
But to each his own.
Aluminum will provide durability and strength to mount additional hardware (downriggers, etc).
Starboard will scratch fairly easily, as it is well, plastic. Gelcoat over aluminum would be more scratch resistant and easy to repair.
Blackduck posted 02-25-2011 09:55 AM ET (US)
I have a set of fiberglass ones that I took off an 18, because I could not deal without having teak. They are in good shape and I would sell them at a reasonable price, but shipping charges are going to kill you.
L H G posted 02-25-2011 10:58 AM ET (US)
Because I am not able to store this boat inside, within 5 years of ordering my 1989 25 Outrage and paying $300 extra for teak gunwales, I began to regret it. The teak is not as strong, nor as easy to maintain, as the fiberglass alternatives. It is big job to varnish, also, having to remove all of the fittings. I have also suffered "popped" teak pegs over the screws holding the gunwale boards to the tops of the hull, inluding one SS screw corroded off and allowing water into the hull that I cannot extract or even get to.
By the time I decided I wished I had the glass gunwales, Whaler had destroyed the molds. Have not been able to find a used set in acceptable condition. On this boat, with my applications, ordering the teak, even though it looks good, was a big mistake for me.
On the second generation of Outrages, the teak gunwales are the biggest item of maintenance on the entire boat. Revenge owners are lucky teak was never offered!
One of the things I really like about my '70's era first generation Outrages, is NO TEAK GUNWALES.
Blackduck posted 02-25-2011 11:14 AM ET (US)
You are right Larry, the teak gunwales are a pain to maintain, but nothing looks nearly as good. With glass, the boat just looses a lot of it's class. Those teak boards are a lot of what makes it a classic. I spent $700 just for the lumber, 0 regrets.
prj posted 02-25-2011 11:30 AM ET (US)
There is no aesthetic equal to the teak, even if it only receives a modicum of care. Consider the amount of cost and effort that replacing them will require and spread that out into teak gunnel maintenance. I'd bet that will cover the first 5 years worth.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25169902@N00/2194154954/in/ set-72157594333466459/lightbox/
elaelap posted 02-25-2011 11:43 AM ET (US)
Nothing at all wrong with just letting the teak go, Brian. Many of the world's finest sailboats have teak decks, handrails, deckboxes, etc, which are only occasionally -- if ever -- oiled (never varnished), and look very nice indeed in their natural teak-gray state. The wood itself will do just fine without any oil or varnish...it's naturally rot-proof.
Wash down every now and then with water, and make sure you don't use a brush to scrub heavily with the wood's grain (this can cause the softer elements of the teak to wear away faster than the harder parallel grains), and forget about it. Teak gunwale caps are actually much safer to step on when boarding or disembarking (because they are naturally slip-free) left in their natural state.
Sure, beautifully varnished teak looks great, but for someone like you who uses his boats hard and constantly in our NorCal salt water environment, maybe just let the teak alone to reach its own, natural state. That's what I'd do with the gunwale caps (my OR 18 didn't have 'em), though I do spend an appreciable amount of very pleasant winter off-work time prep-ing and varnishing (actually oiling and polyurethaning) the wood on my Whalers' consoles and RPSs.
Tony
cc378 posted 02-25-2011 11:55 AM ET (US)
A good compromise is 5 coats of Cetol every three years. They have a clear version that looks close to varnish but lasts much longer. I use it on my Outrage 20 and the boat spends the entire season uncovered on a mooring in Cape Cod.
Yes it takes a bit of effort but every three years is not too bad.
PeteB88 posted 02-25-2011 12:04 PM ET (US)
In my experience teak is difficult regarding clear finishes. Oil is really best choice and probably Cetol. I've always had much better results clear finishing marine grade mahogany. My question is what about thick Brunzeel marine mahogany plywood as opposed to boards? African mahogany still available? I know it's spendy but so are boards. I would consider marine epoxy coating marine ply especially saturating the end grain and finishing w/ marine spar varnish coats.
Has anyone tried that?
newt posted 02-25-2011 12:26 PM ET (US)
Larry, the V20 Revenge had teak!
https://picasaweb.google.com/newtrevenge/ V20?authkey=Gv1sRgCL3tuOuog5qG6wE#5577679238822432834
meridian posted 02-25-2011 01:43 PM ET (US)
FISHNFF,
My 1992 Outrage II has fiberglass gunnels and I know that teak was an option but I don't know if they are the same size.
I'll measure mine up as I would be interested in having the teak if we could work out a deal.
Terry
meridian posted 02-25-2011 02:12 PM ET (US)
Never mind. The gunnels are completly different.
dfmcintyre posted 02-25-2011 03:43 PM ET (US)
Larry -
No teak on Revenge models? Huh, I could have sworn......
Don :)
FISHNFF posted 02-25-2011 05:00 PM ET (US)
Thanks.
I like the look of nicely finished teak and mahogany on boats. But when they start to weather...
I was thinking of relocating my side rails, remove 2 of the 4 gunnel mount rodholders, and cover some holes in the gunnels. How about capping the entire gunnel with 1/4" or 5/16" teak? Should I seal the original wood? How should I treat the new wood?
FISHNFF
L H G posted 02-25-2011 06:45 PM ET (US)
Thank you for that correction. I had forgotten about the pre-Walkthrough Revenges.
Whalrman posted 02-25-2011 08:40 PM ET (US)
Man I love my Aluminum gunwales! No fuss, no muss just enjoy. I've done the teak and mahagony thing on whalers since '69 and it does look great but, being in the HOT FL. sun and humidity and mold, it is a pain to keep up. Fish blood and guts take there toll as well. My time is better spent now with the aluminum gunwales. "To each his own"~
Mike Kub posted 02-25-2011 10:07 PM ET (US)
Minimal effort required to acid wash and oil teak.Looks so much better than varnished.Did mine this past weekend and was easier than thought would be.Why not paint entire boat with bottom paint then you won't even have to wash it after use.
dfmcintyre posted 02-25-2011 10:38 PM ET (US)
Mike -
Be cautious about acid washing. Too many times and it will degrade the softer sections of the grain. Then it starts to look and feel rough. Where the problem can be noticed is around the bung holes that cover the mounting screws. Over time, the bung will protrude above the rest of the surface.
After about five or six years of doing the acid / bronze wool and oiling, I began to notice that effect. So I decided to sand down the total surface. Removed the grab rail hardware and was shocked at the amount of surface that had been removed.
Regards - Don
dfmcintyre posted 02-25-2011 10:40 PM ET (US)
Larry -
Didn't you mention to me once of having the same problem with an acid wash?
D
makoman310 posted 02-26-2011 08:27 AM ET (US)
does anyone know were to get repacement teak gunnels to a 22outrage wd mine has cracks from the outriggers on the boat
Buckda posted 02-26-2011 11:45 AM ET (US)
Makoman -
Mike Stennett at Nautical Lumber company can fabricate and ship new gunwale caps to you.
Give him a call for pricing.
Dave
Mike Kub posted 02-26-2011 07:59 PM ET (US)
I used the kit from West Marine and diluted the wash.The teak had fadded pretty badly and I was greatly surprised how the color came back.It is beautiful.I would encourage anyone to try to keep the teak if possible.These were/are such aestheticly pleasing boats.Good warning about the potential damage though.Thanks.
dfmcintyre posted 02-27-2011 10:35 PM ET (US)
Mike -
One thought...
If you store it outside, consider having a canvas shop fabricate a set of snap on fabric sun shield pieces. Could hide the snaps under the gunnels.
Regards - Don
littleblue posted 02-28-2011 05:04 AM ET (US)
My first Whaler, a Montauk, I took off all wood trim and pieces. Cleaned, sanded, oiled, and put back. Had to re-apply oil every 6 months or so. Learned quickly I was not a teak person.
Buckda posted 02-28-2011 11:14 AM ET (US)
Jasper -
Your exercise seems to have proven that you're not an "oiled teak person". I would not have teak on my boat if I had to constantly oil it.
That is why I varnish mine.
Every fall, I wash the wood thoroughly, scuff it with some 150 grit sandpaper, give it an acetone wash/wipe and add another coat or two of varnish.
Unless you severely scratch the wood by dragging something across it, varnished teak is a once a season maintenance item - add a couple of coats and keep going.
Even better if you strip the wood down and seal it with an epoxy clearcoat to protect against those deep scratches. Do the work now and add 8-12 coats of quality varnish and then it's an annual touch up from here on out, except for repairs, as mentioned, for significant damage events....but the same would be true for gelcoated surfaces.
prj posted 02-28-2011 11:51 AM ET (US)
Call me perverted, but there are few things I enjoy more than caressing the beautiful teak components on my Outrage with an oily rag. It doesn't feel like a project, and I have to recklessly stretch the time to make it a two-beer effort.
littleblue posted 02-28-2011 12:54 PM ET (US)
Dave,
Even those steps you mention give me a headache. Even if it were every other year or every two years... I do love the looks but it's just another thing to worry about and I have too much on my plate as it is. :)
Uggh, bow rail re-fastening and a new wax job are soon in order. I snapped several screws heads off in rough water coming back from Tuna fishing. I really wish they had fastened the railing on more securely. But, that is another subject.
It's okay, I've accepted the fact that I can't deal with the teak.

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Author	Topic: Outrage Teak Gunwale Substitute
FISHNFF	posted 02-25-2011 01:08 AM ET (US) I've read both sides of the fence. My 1988 18 Outrage has the teak gunwales. Beautiful beyond compare when lovingly cared for. But I'm more of a wash and put away guy. I take care of mechanicical things meticulously, but I like a wash with SaltX with an occasional wax. Not a wood guy. So. Has anyone replaced their wooden gunwales with anything else? I read of one who did aluminum. Hmm... Nice, but not my personal choice. I thought of an entire Starboard replacement. Or capping with Starboard. Clean teak, finish, and coat with a UV stabil 2 part epoxy? What to do? FISHNFF
Buckda	posted 02-25-2011 08:53 AM ET (US) Frankly, an Aluminum gunwale coated with a quality marine paint or even fiberglass and gelcoat would be my choice if I were to lose my marbles and decide to replace teak with something non wood. :) My advice: go find your marbles! But to each his own. Aluminum will provide durability and strength to mount additional hardware (downriggers, etc). Starboard will scratch fairly easily, as it is well, plastic. Gelcoat over aluminum would be more scratch resistant and easy to repair.
Blackduck	posted 02-25-2011 09:55 AM ET (US) I have a set of fiberglass ones that I took off an 18, because I could not deal without having teak. They are in good shape and I would sell them at a reasonable price, but shipping charges are going to kill you.
L H G	posted 02-25-2011 10:58 AM ET (US) Because I am not able to store this boat inside, within 5 years of ordering my 1989 25 Outrage and paying $300 extra for teak gunwales, I began to regret it. The teak is not as strong, nor as easy to maintain, as the fiberglass alternatives. It is big job to varnish, also, having to remove all of the fittings. I have also suffered "popped" teak pegs over the screws holding the gunwale boards to the tops of the hull, inluding one SS screw corroded off and allowing water into the hull that I cannot extract or even get to. By the time I decided I wished I had the glass gunwales, Whaler had destroyed the molds. Have not been able to find a used set in acceptable condition. On this boat, with my applications, ordering the teak, even though it looks good, was a big mistake for me. On the second generation of Outrages, the teak gunwales are the biggest item of maintenance on the entire boat. Revenge owners are lucky teak was never offered! One of the things I really like about my '70's era first generation Outrages, is NO TEAK GUNWALES.
Blackduck	posted 02-25-2011 11:14 AM ET (US) You are right Larry, the teak gunwales are a pain to maintain, but nothing looks nearly as good. With glass, the boat just looses a lot of it's class. Those teak boards are a lot of what makes it a classic. I spent $700 just for the lumber, 0 regrets.
prj	posted 02-25-2011 11:30 AM ET (US) There is no aesthetic equal to the teak, even if it only receives a modicum of care. Consider the amount of cost and effort that replacing them will require and spread that out into teak gunnel maintenance. I'd bet that will cover the first 5 years worth. http://www.flickr.com/photos/25169902@N00/2194154954/in/ set-72157594333466459/lightbox/
elaelap	posted 02-25-2011 11:43 AM ET (US) Nothing at all wrong with just letting the teak go, Brian. Many of the world's finest sailboats have teak decks, handrails, deckboxes, etc, which are only occasionally -- if ever -- oiled (never varnished), and look very nice indeed in their natural teak-gray state. The wood itself will do just fine without any oil or varnish...it's naturally rot-proof. Wash down every now and then with water, and make sure you don't use a brush to scrub heavily with the wood's grain (this can cause the softer elements of the teak to wear away faster than the harder parallel grains), and forget about it. Teak gunwale caps are actually much safer to step on when boarding or disembarking (because they are naturally slip-free) left in their natural state. Sure, beautifully varnished teak looks great, but for someone like you who uses his boats hard and constantly in our NorCal salt water environment, maybe just let the teak alone to reach its own, natural state. That's what I'd do with the gunwale caps (my OR 18 didn't have 'em), though I do spend an appreciable amount of very pleasant winter off-work time prep-ing and varnishing (actually oiling and polyurethaning) the wood on my Whalers' consoles and RPSs. Tony
cc378	posted 02-25-2011 11:55 AM ET (US) A good compromise is 5 coats of Cetol every three years. They have a clear version that looks close to varnish but lasts much longer. I use it on my Outrage 20 and the boat spends the entire season uncovered on a mooring in Cape Cod. Yes it takes a bit of effort but every three years is not too bad.
PeteB88	posted 02-25-2011 12:04 PM ET (US) In my experience teak is difficult regarding clear finishes. Oil is really best choice and probably Cetol. I've always had much better results clear finishing marine grade mahogany. My question is what about thick Brunzeel marine mahogany plywood as opposed to boards? African mahogany still available? I know it's spendy but so are boards. I would consider marine epoxy coating marine ply especially saturating the end grain and finishing w/ marine spar varnish coats. Has anyone tried that?
newt	posted 02-25-2011 12:26 PM ET (US) Larry, the V20 Revenge had teak! https://picasaweb.google.com/newtrevenge/ V20?authkey=Gv1sRgCL3tuOuog5qG6wE#5577679238822432834
meridian	posted 02-25-2011 01:43 PM ET (US) FISHNFF, My 1992 Outrage II has fiberglass gunnels and I know that teak was an option but I don't know if they are the same size. I'll measure mine up as I would be interested in having the teak if we could work out a deal. Terry
meridian	posted 02-25-2011 02:12 PM ET (US) Never mind. The gunnels are completly different.
dfmcintyre	posted 02-25-2011 03:43 PM ET (US) Larry - No teak on Revenge models? Huh, I could have sworn...... Don :)
FISHNFF	posted 02-25-2011 05:00 PM ET (US) Thanks. I like the look of nicely finished teak and mahogany on boats. But when they start to weather... I was thinking of relocating my side rails, remove 2 of the 4 gunnel mount rodholders, and cover some holes in the gunnels. How about capping the entire gunnel with 1/4" or 5/16" teak? Should I seal the original wood? How should I treat the new wood? FISHNFF
L H G	posted 02-25-2011 06:45 PM ET (US) Thank you for that correction. I had forgotten about the pre-Walkthrough Revenges.
Whalrman	posted 02-25-2011 08:40 PM ET (US) Man I love my Aluminum gunwales! No fuss, no muss just enjoy. I've done the teak and mahagony thing on whalers since '69 and it does look great but, being in the HOT FL. sun and humidity and mold, it is a pain to keep up. Fish blood and guts take there toll as well. My time is better spent now with the aluminum gunwales. "To each his own"~
Mike Kub	posted 02-25-2011 10:07 PM ET (US) Minimal effort required to acid wash and oil teak.Looks so much better than varnished.Did mine this past weekend and was easier than thought would be.Why not paint entire boat with bottom paint then you won't even have to wash it after use.
dfmcintyre	posted 02-25-2011 10:38 PM ET (US) Mike - Be cautious about acid washing. Too many times and it will degrade the softer sections of the grain. Then it starts to look and feel rough. Where the problem can be noticed is around the bung holes that cover the mounting screws. Over time, the bung will protrude above the rest of the surface. After about five or six years of doing the acid / bronze wool and oiling, I began to notice that effect. So I decided to sand down the total surface. Removed the grab rail hardware and was shocked at the amount of surface that had been removed. Regards - Don
dfmcintyre	posted 02-25-2011 10:40 PM ET (US) Larry - Didn't you mention to me once of having the same problem with an acid wash? D
makoman310	posted 02-26-2011 08:27 AM ET (US) does anyone know were to get repacement teak gunnels to a 22outrage wd mine has cracks from the outriggers on the boat
Buckda	posted 02-26-2011 11:45 AM ET (US) Makoman - Mike Stennett at Nautical Lumber company can fabricate and ship new gunwale caps to you. Give him a call for pricing. Dave
Mike Kub	posted 02-26-2011 07:59 PM ET (US) I used the kit from West Marine and diluted the wash.The teak had fadded pretty badly and I was greatly surprised how the color came back.It is beautiful.I would encourage anyone to try to keep the teak if possible.These were/are such aestheticly pleasing boats.Good warning about the potential damage though.Thanks.
dfmcintyre	posted 02-27-2011 10:35 PM ET (US) Mike - One thought... If you store it outside, consider having a canvas shop fabricate a set of snap on fabric sun shield pieces. Could hide the snaps under the gunnels. Regards - Don
littleblue	posted 02-28-2011 05:04 AM ET (US) My first Whaler, a Montauk, I took off all wood trim and pieces. Cleaned, sanded, oiled, and put back. Had to re-apply oil every 6 months or so. Learned quickly I was not a teak person.
Buckda	posted 02-28-2011 11:14 AM ET (US) Jasper - Your exercise seems to have proven that you're not an "oiled teak person". I would not have teak on my boat if I had to constantly oil it. That is why I varnish mine. Every fall, I wash the wood thoroughly, scuff it with some 150 grit sandpaper, give it an acetone wash/wipe and add another coat or two of varnish. Unless you severely scratch the wood by dragging something across it, varnished teak is a once a season maintenance item - add a couple of coats and keep going. Even better if you strip the wood down and seal it with an epoxy clearcoat to protect against those deep scratches. Do the work now and add 8-12 coats of quality varnish and then it's an annual touch up from here on out, except for repairs, as mentioned, for significant damage events....but the same would be true for gelcoated surfaces.
prj	posted 02-28-2011 11:51 AM ET (US) Call me perverted, but there are few things I enjoy more than caressing the beautiful teak components on my Outrage with an oily rag. It doesn't feel like a project, and I have to recklessly stretch the time to make it a two-beer effort.
littleblue	posted 02-28-2011 12:54 PM ET (US) Dave, Even those steps you mention give me a headache. Even if it were every other year or every two years... I do love the looks but it's just another thing to worry about and I have too much on my plate as it is. :) Uggh, bow rail re-fastening and a new wax job are soon in order. I snapped several screws heads off in rough water coming back from Tuna fishing. I really wish they had fastened the railing on more securely. But, that is another subject. It's okay, I've accepted the fact that I can't deal with the teak.