Specialty Marine Railing for 13-footer Does Not Fit

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Author Topic:   Specialty Marine Railing for 13-footer Does Not Fit

dowdhh posted 04-17-2011 09:37 PM ET (US)
Hey, I began installing new side rails on my 13. I bought them from Specialty Marine. It seems that the forward stand-offs are too short and will need a spacer of some kind. Of the four stand-offs two are slightly longer but I still need another 1/4". Any thoughts? Thanks, HH
jimh posted 04-18-2011 08:41 AM ET (US)
Have you contacted the maker of the side rails to discuss why they do not properly fit? The gunwale profile of a small Boston Whaler boat is not a very complicated surface--it's a straight line. One would anticipate that it should not be particularly difficult to manufacture a replacement part to fit on a surface which is essentially a flat plane.
Tom W Clark posted 04-18-2011 10:25 AM ET (US)
The gunwale profile of the classic 13 foot hull is not a straight line, nor is the inside face of the gunwales a flat plane; it is a complex surface. This is why the standoffs used are different lengths and the bases have a slight cant to them.
Are you sure you have the standoffs in their correct respective locations?
SpongeBob posted 04-18-2011 12:45 PM ET (US)
The short stantions go in the rear not the front.
Jeff
contender posted 04-18-2011 04:06 PM ET (US)
If you still have the problem with the stand offs you can use a piece of star board between the stand off and the hull,(comes in different thickness) just need some longer screws. I would take it apart (Railing) and regroup to see if you are doing something wrong...good luck
dowdhh posted 04-18-2011 07:14 PM ET (US)
Thanks. Wow, where do I begin? Jim I have not contacted Specialty Marine, I thought I would start with you guys. Mr. Clark is correct the gunwales are not a flat, straight line. The rail bases are mounted on what I'll call the seat shelf and the aft area is closer to the gunwhale then the forward area is. I did use the shorter stand-offs aft. There is not much choice in where to mount the stand-offs , slide up or down an inch or so but thats about it. There's not much to assembling the rails, each side consists of two rail sections that fit together with male-female ends, three bases, a tee style support that mounts on the seat clamp and the two stand-offs. I looked at a number of helpfull photo's in Ceteaca to guide me. Contender, I also believe spacers are my solution, but I did'nt think of Star-Board, good idea! Thanks HH
modenacart posted 04-18-2011 10:54 PM ET (US)
I am not sure why you would snub your noise at the advice to speak with the seller of your item. They should know to install it, if not, you should buy somewhere else.
frontier posted 04-18-2011 11:31 PM ET (US)
I agree with jimh.
The 1st place to go with any problem with a vendors product is the vendor.
It may not be their problem.
In my case, sometimes it's 'Operator Failure':)
If it is a vendor problem, give them a chance to make it right.
Treat them like you would want to be treated.
My experience with Specialty Marine has been excellent.
Product quality, price and customer service is very good.
They go out of their way to help.
jimh posted 04-19-2011 09:06 AM ET (US)
My impression of the railing from your narrative was that it was already assembled and welded into a single structure. If the railing is in pieces to be assembled, perhaps a slight error has been made in the assembly.
If the profile of the gunwale of your 13-foot is not a straight line--more or less--I think you have a serious problem with your 13-footer. That might explain why the railing is not fitting well. In any case, you mention only four mounting points. We know that three points determine a plane, so one would expect that the railing could be attached at three points without much trouble, and it is only the fit of the fourth point of attachment which would require some dimensional precision to give a good fit.
The dimensional tolerance for a complicated shape of bent tubing is probably only about a quarter-inch. That seems like it would be within the expected amount of variation just due to the pipe flexing or trying to return to its original shape. If you are just short a quarter-inch on a pre-cut piece of tube, you could always buy a new piece and cut it to length. Or, perhaps you can cut the other three pieces by a quarter-inch to match them to the fourth piece.
jimh posted 04-19-2011 09:11 AM ET (US)
ASIDE: I have seen some mechanical drawings which show installation of complicated assemblies to an existing structure in which certain dimensions or the locations of certain components are marked "assemble and fit on location." In some cases the only way to obtain a perfect fit is to make some modification to the assembled device when it is mounted to the structure it is attaching to.
dowdhh posted 04-19-2011 05:14 PM ET (US)
Modenacart, I did not and would never " snub my nose" at Jim's advice, I said I would start buy asking you guys thinking I may be able to tap into some first hand experience. I did not even suggest that I was unwilling to contact Specialty Marine.
Frontier, My experience with Specialty Marine has also been excellent and I never suggested otherwise. I feel I detailed my situation clearly, If you see a specific operator error please bring it to my attention.
Jim, My narrative clearly describes two rail pieces that fit together with male/female ends. Not a welded one piece section. I also mention three bases and two stand-offs giving five mounting points for each rail. HH

Tom Hemphill posted 04-19-2011 06:44 PM ET (US)
I replaced all the hardware for the side rails of my former 1966 13-foot Whaler. My project included moving everything forward 4 to 6 inches. For a good fit, the standoffs had to be custom sized. The interior profiles of old Boston Whalers are not consistent in a way you might expect. Thankfully, my replacement hardware was purchased from Martin Marine Design of Hardeeville, SC, a participant in this forum. He manufactures everything to order, and even cheerfully replaced parts for which I had measured incorrectly.
dowdhh posted 04-19-2011 07:19 PM ET (US)
Tom. Thank you, for very usefull information. My 13 is also from the mid 1960's. I agree that the interiors of the older 13's are not consistant and dont think I have a "serious problem" with my hull as sugested by others here. I probably will not continue the project until this weekend and do plan to consult Specialty Marine for any ideas. If needed I will look into Martin Marine. Thanks again. HH
dowdhh posted 04-24-2011 06:49 PM ET (US)
I sent some pictures of my rail situation to Eric at Specialty Marine, per his request. I have moved things around as many ways I can see possible with the same result the stanchions are too short. I'll see what Eric thinks. HH
dowdhh posted 04-30-2011 07:29 PM ET (US)
Hey, Update on my side rails. Eric from Specialty Marine and I exchanged a few E-mails and he was also stumped, but I am pleased with his effort. My 13's hull number (from the bow compartment) of #5096 puts it at 1961 to1963,(CW, reference section) so it's old and that may be a factor. I will just use some spacers, no big deal. Contender, I could only find sheets of Starboard that were not cheap, I only need a couple of 2" by 2" pieces. So ,I am thinking I'll just use a quality wood and I should be ok. Thanks.
contender posted 04-30-2011 08:43 PM ET (US)
dowdhh; How many size pieces do you need, what color, what thickness...Maybe I can help, do you have a table saw to cut then with? Or do you just want to use teak?
dowdhh posted 05-01-2011 09:34 AM ET (US)
I have some scrap pieces of mahogany, I think will work well. Plus I would like to tackle the project today. Thanks alot for the offer.

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Author	Topic: Specialty Marine Railing for 13-footer Does Not Fit
dowdhh	posted 04-17-2011 09:37 PM ET (US) Hey, I began installing new side rails on my 13. I bought them from Specialty Marine. It seems that the forward stand-offs are too short and will need a spacer of some kind. Of the four stand-offs two are slightly longer but I still need another 1/4". Any thoughts? Thanks, HH
jimh	posted 04-18-2011 08:41 AM ET (US) Have you contacted the maker of the side rails to discuss why they do not properly fit? The gunwale profile of a small Boston Whaler boat is not a very complicated surface--it's a straight line. One would anticipate that it should not be particularly difficult to manufacture a replacement part to fit on a surface which is essentially a flat plane.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-18-2011 10:25 AM ET (US) The gunwale profile of the classic 13 foot hull is not a straight line, nor is the inside face of the gunwales a flat plane; it is a complex surface. This is why the standoffs used are different lengths and the bases have a slight cant to them. Are you sure you have the standoffs in their correct respective locations?
SpongeBob	posted 04-18-2011 12:45 PM ET (US) The short stantions go in the rear not the front. Jeff
contender	posted 04-18-2011 04:06 PM ET (US) If you still have the problem with the stand offs you can use a piece of star board between the stand off and the hull,(comes in different thickness) just need some longer screws. I would take it apart (Railing) and regroup to see if you are doing something wrong...good luck
dowdhh	posted 04-18-2011 07:14 PM ET (US) Thanks. Wow, where do I begin? Jim I have not contacted Specialty Marine, I thought I would start with you guys. Mr. Clark is correct the gunwales are not a flat, straight line. The rail bases are mounted on what I'll call the seat shelf and the aft area is closer to the gunwhale then the forward area is. I did use the shorter stand-offs aft. There is not much choice in where to mount the stand-offs , slide up or down an inch or so but thats about it. There's not much to assembling the rails, each side consists of two rail sections that fit together with male-female ends, three bases, a tee style support that mounts on the seat clamp and the two stand-offs. I looked at a number of helpfull photo's in Ceteaca to guide me. Contender, I also believe spacers are my solution, but I did'nt think of Star-Board, good idea! Thanks HH
modenacart	posted 04-18-2011 10:54 PM ET (US) I am not sure why you would snub your noise at the advice to speak with the seller of your item. They should know to install it, if not, you should buy somewhere else.
frontier	posted 04-18-2011 11:31 PM ET (US) I agree with jimh. The 1st place to go with any problem with a vendors product is the vendor. It may not be their problem. In my case, sometimes it's 'Operator Failure':) If it is a vendor problem, give them a chance to make it right. Treat them like you would want to be treated. My experience with Specialty Marine has been excellent. Product quality, price and customer service is very good. They go out of their way to help.
jimh	posted 04-19-2011 09:06 AM ET (US) My impression of the railing from your narrative was that it was already assembled and welded into a single structure. If the railing is in pieces to be assembled, perhaps a slight error has been made in the assembly. If the profile of the gunwale of your 13-foot is not a straight line--more or less--I think you have a serious problem with your 13-footer. That might explain why the railing is not fitting well. In any case, you mention only four mounting points. We know that three points determine a plane, so one would expect that the railing could be attached at three points without much trouble, and it is only the fit of the fourth point of attachment which would require some dimensional precision to give a good fit. The dimensional tolerance for a complicated shape of bent tubing is probably only about a quarter-inch. That seems like it would be within the expected amount of variation just due to the pipe flexing or trying to return to its original shape. If you are just short a quarter-inch on a pre-cut piece of tube, you could always buy a new piece and cut it to length. Or, perhaps you can cut the other three pieces by a quarter-inch to match them to the fourth piece.
jimh	posted 04-19-2011 09:11 AM ET (US) ASIDE: I have seen some mechanical drawings which show installation of complicated assemblies to an existing structure in which certain dimensions or the locations of certain components are marked "assemble and fit on location." In some cases the only way to obtain a perfect fit is to make some modification to the assembled device when it is mounted to the structure it is attaching to.
dowdhh	posted 04-19-2011 05:14 PM ET (US) Modenacart, I did not and would never " snub my nose" at Jim's advice, I said I would start buy asking you guys thinking I may be able to tap into some first hand experience. I did not even suggest that I was unwilling to contact Specialty Marine. Frontier, My experience with Specialty Marine has also been excellent and I never suggested otherwise. I feel I detailed my situation clearly, If you see a specific operator error please bring it to my attention. Jim, My narrative clearly describes two rail pieces that fit together with male/female ends. Not a welded one piece section. I also mention three bases and two stand-offs giving five mounting points for each rail. HH
Tom Hemphill	posted 04-19-2011 06:44 PM ET (US) I replaced all the hardware for the side rails of my former 1966 13-foot Whaler. My project included moving everything forward 4 to 6 inches. For a good fit, the standoffs had to be custom sized. The interior profiles of old Boston Whalers are not consistent in a way you might expect. Thankfully, my replacement hardware was purchased from Martin Marine Design of Hardeeville, SC, a participant in this forum. He manufactures everything to order, and even cheerfully replaced parts for which I had measured incorrectly.
dowdhh	posted 04-19-2011 07:19 PM ET (US) Tom. Thank you, for very usefull information. My 13 is also from the mid 1960's. I agree that the interiors of the older 13's are not consistant and dont think I have a "serious problem" with my hull as sugested by others here. I probably will not continue the project until this weekend and do plan to consult Specialty Marine for any ideas. If needed I will look into Martin Marine. Thanks again. HH
dowdhh	posted 04-24-2011 06:49 PM ET (US) I sent some pictures of my rail situation to Eric at Specialty Marine, per his request. I have moved things around as many ways I can see possible with the same result the stanchions are too short. I'll see what Eric thinks. HH
dowdhh	posted 04-30-2011 07:29 PM ET (US) Hey, Update on my side rails. Eric from Specialty Marine and I exchanged a few E-mails and he was also stumped, but I am pleased with his effort. My 13's hull number (from the bow compartment) of #5096 puts it at 1961 to1963,(CW, reference section) so it's old and that may be a factor. I will just use some spacers, no big deal. Contender, I could only find sheets of Starboard that were not cheap, I only need a couple of 2" by 2" pieces. So ,I am thinking I'll just use a quality wood and I should be ok. Thanks.
contender	posted 04-30-2011 08:43 PM ET (US) dowdhh; How many size pieces do you need, what color, what thickness...Maybe I can help, do you have a table saw to cut then with? Or do you just want to use teak?
dowdhh	posted 05-01-2011 09:34 AM ET (US) I have some scrap pieces of mahogany, I think will work well. Plus I would like to tackle the project today. Thanks alot for the offer.