Contamination of Varnish Finish When Flipped Over for Back Side Coat

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Author Topic:   Contamination of Varnish Finish When Flipped Over for Back Side Coat

hc803 posted 06-14-2011 01:51 PM ET (US)
[I--please capitalize the personal pronoun "I"] am in the final stages of refinishing my wood with three coats Cetol Natural Light and three coats Marine Gloss, but [there is a] problem: the plastic drop cloth is making the gloss coats peel in spots when [I] flip over a finished side. [I] tried waiting 24-, 48-, and 72-hours but keep having the same result. Should [I] switch over to a canvas cloth to prevent this? I used an old Tee-shirt on a piece last night and [the finish] didn't peel, but [I] was left with lint on the wood and had to clean it off. [Give] suggestions.
Binkster posted 06-14-2011 02:05 PM ET (US)
The easiest and most foolproof way is to take some scrap plywood cut in the shape of the pieces you are varnishing. Then run some 1 1/2 or 2' drywall screws thru the plywood near the corners. Lay the piece to be varnished on the screw points, varnish the piece but not the edges. then flip the piece over and lay the dry side up and varnish that side. When done with the second side varnish the edges with out dipping the brush. Perfect job every time.
PeteB88 posted 06-14-2011 10:43 PM ET (US)
You can do the same thing with foam board insulation that Bink suggests. I use like one-inch insulation board--styrofoam stuff. What's cool is I take a Sharpie, lay the piece on a sheet of foam board I intend to finish, trace the outline of the object on the foam then push some drywall screws through the board following the outline and turn it over. Works great. Save the plywood. Save some trees.
L H G posted 06-14-2011 11:17 PM ET (US)
For years and years, I have always hung the pieces and doors I am varnishing, unless they are more than five feet long). Long or heavy boards an dlocker covers have to be varnished one side at a time, resting on short 1 x 2's on the workbench, so the edges can also be done.
All Whaler wood has screw holes in it, so I fashion a hanger out of a pants clothes hanger (the kind with the cardboard roll). They take seconds to make with a wire cutter. I leave the top curved hook that goes over the closet pole, and bend the bottem into a slightly upturned "L" which goes through the hole in one end of the Whaler wood. I hang the wet pieces from the handles on open cabinet doors. I only lay the wood flat for the final coat on the finished, exposed surface, setting the pieces across some 1 x 2's. Flag poles are varnished using the top screw eye as a hanger to which the flag is attached.
Slick 50 posted 06-15-2011 09:31 AM ET (US)
I too hang things to paint or finish. If the parts are long I hang them from the ceiling and if short I hang them from the bow of the Montauk. As mentioned, most parts have some kind of hole in them somewhere to stick a wire through. Baling wire works well.
Good luck,
Rick
dscew posted 06-15-2011 10:52 AM ET (US)
I lean them to varnish. If you lean at enough of an angle, you can finish all the way to the edge, and when dry, place flat on a couple of chunks of 2 X 4 or styrofoam to allow you to get all around the edges for their varnish.
Binkster posted 06-17-2011 02:48 PM ET (US)
Pete, the styrofoam idea is an improvement over plywood. I'll do it that way next time. I learned the plywood on screws trick about 50 years ago when working in a boat yard doing varnish work. I don`t think styrofoam boards were invented yet, so I never modernized. Hang or leaning boards to varnish? I didn't think experienced varnishers did that anymore. Possibility of sags, runs, and boards falling over, and takes twice as long, doing only one side at a time.
Tohsgib posted 06-17-2011 03:17 PM ET (US)
How would you keep a hanging twart from moving when you varnish it?
Slick 50 posted 06-18-2011 09:26 AM ET (US)
The swinging is not a problem if you use a second hole to put a small screw in or another temporary wire to hold the piece steady while working on it. You can also use your other hand to hold it still then touch up the hold point with careful strokes.
Rick
Binkster posted 06-18-2011 08:54 PM ET (US)
Wow, make an easy job hard, how long does it take you to put a coat of varnish on a 13 foot interior. With the screw point method. less than 45 minutes both sides.
home Aside posted 06-19-2011 04:17 PM ET (US)
I've used the hanging method and also have used Dowl rods to lay the pieces on to keep them up off the flat surface with as little contact with the varnished wood as possible, both have worked well....
I do like Binkie & Petes nail/screw point idea, no that I think about it that's the method Mike at Nautical Lumber uses.
How come I always here about these other methods after I'm done varnishing?
Pat
PeteB88 posted 06-25-2011 11:18 PM ET (US)
I've hung pieces too and for years before I figured out the foam board and sharp point screw method. I'd still hang them no problem and usually drove a finish nail into an edge and bent it over to hang by itself or on a rope or wire line.
No matter what "chasing runs and sags" is always the final step and I do it until the finish tacks up to the point where it's impossible.
I always leave a room fan going on slow away from the wet pieces and not directly on them. Keeping room air moving helps accelerate curing times.
Waterwonderland posted 06-25-2011 11:58 PM ET (US)
Mike at Nautical Lumber has special racks and a spray booth. I have seen some odd pieces propped up to get at the nooks and crannies, but never seen him do the actual spraying.
dowdhh posted 06-26-2011 07:47 PM ET (US)
Wow! I agree with Binkster " make an easy job hard" I refinished the wood on my 13 foot'er. I put a coat on one side laying flat on saw horses put them in my shed and did the other side the next day, and repeated, utill I got however many coats I have now. All I know is it looks fine after 2 years. Compared to other projects, this should not be such a big deal.
wezie posted 06-27-2011 09:40 PM ET (US)
I hang things as discussed and use disposable gloves to handle them as necessary while finishing the bottom.
Allows one coat all over vs one coat every two or four days.
PeteB88 posted 06-27-2011 11:52 PM ET (US)
It's extremely difficult to spray varnish successfully without proper commercial equipment and booth. Been there done that. Not sure how Mike does it either, been in his shop several times.
You can do just fine with brushes. Take your time, do it right - proper commercial supplies and tools necessary.
Chuck Tribolet posted 07-03-2011 09:39 AM ET (US)
At Sherwin-Williams the other day to buy paint to do the
inside of the garage at the dive shack, I saw a plastic device
called "Painters Pyramids" which seem to be commercialized
version of drywall screwes through plywood/styrofoam

Chuck
raygun posted 07-07-2011 02:56 PM ET (US)
Aye Chuck, they work great. www.painterspyramid.com
Reusable and no Styrofoam or plywood with nails/screws to clean up.
Binkster posted 07-07-2011 09:37 PM ET (US)
You need a "clean room" in order to spray varnish. I don`t know why its more difficult to get right than paint but it is. A few years ago I decided to spray varnish my 14' mahogany race boat. On one of my rental homes that was vacant at the time there is a 10x20 shed that had a wooden floor and was in good condition and tight. I swept it out and then hosed it out, everything, floor, walls and inside the roof. It was really clean. I closed it up and waited for it to dry out for a couple of days. I pushed the boat in on its trailer(it was all sanded in my garage). I went over the entire boat with a tack cloth. After that I sprayed on about 4 coats of Pettitts Captains varnish.(after one coat tacked up I would spray another.) It looked fantastic and I locked the place up and went home thinking how much easier it is to spray varnish than brushing it on. Well, I came back the next day, opened up the doors and "What the---", it looked good but was full of dust and very rough. So I towed it home, sanded it smooth, and varnished it again with a brush in my garage, again it looked fantastic. But this time it had no dust in it. I never figured out what happened, I strained the varnish too.

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Author	Topic: Contamination of Varnish Finish When Flipped Over for Back Side Coat
hc803	posted 06-14-2011 01:51 PM ET (US) [I--please capitalize the personal pronoun "I"] am in the final stages of refinishing my wood with three coats Cetol Natural Light and three coats Marine Gloss, but [there is a] problem: the plastic drop cloth is making the gloss coats peel in spots when [I] flip over a finished side. [I] tried waiting 24-, 48-, and 72-hours but keep having the same result. Should [I] switch over to a canvas cloth to prevent this? I used an old Tee-shirt on a piece last night and [the finish] didn't peel, but [I] was left with lint on the wood and had to clean it off. [Give] suggestions.
Binkster	posted 06-14-2011 02:05 PM ET (US) The easiest and most foolproof way is to take some scrap plywood cut in the shape of the pieces you are varnishing. Then run some 1 1/2 or 2' drywall screws thru the plywood near the corners. Lay the piece to be varnished on the screw points, varnish the piece but not the edges. then flip the piece over and lay the dry side up and varnish that side. When done with the second side varnish the edges with out dipping the brush. Perfect job every time.
PeteB88	posted 06-14-2011 10:43 PM ET (US) You can do the same thing with foam board insulation that Bink suggests. I use like one-inch insulation board--styrofoam stuff. What's cool is I take a Sharpie, lay the piece on a sheet of foam board I intend to finish, trace the outline of the object on the foam then push some drywall screws through the board following the outline and turn it over. Works great. Save the plywood. Save some trees.
L H G	posted 06-14-2011 11:17 PM ET (US) For years and years, I have always hung the pieces and doors I am varnishing, unless they are more than five feet long). Long or heavy boards an dlocker covers have to be varnished one side at a time, resting on short 1 x 2's on the workbench, so the edges can also be done. All Whaler wood has screw holes in it, so I fashion a hanger out of a pants clothes hanger (the kind with the cardboard roll). They take seconds to make with a wire cutter. I leave the top curved hook that goes over the closet pole, and bend the bottem into a slightly upturned "L" which goes through the hole in one end of the Whaler wood. I hang the wet pieces from the handles on open cabinet doors. I only lay the wood flat for the final coat on the finished, exposed surface, setting the pieces across some 1 x 2's. Flag poles are varnished using the top screw eye as a hanger to which the flag is attached.
Slick 50	posted 06-15-2011 09:31 AM ET (US) I too hang things to paint or finish. If the parts are long I hang them from the ceiling and if short I hang them from the bow of the Montauk. As mentioned, most parts have some kind of hole in them somewhere to stick a wire through. Baling wire works well. Good luck, Rick
dscew	posted 06-15-2011 10:52 AM ET (US) I lean them to varnish. If you lean at enough of an angle, you can finish all the way to the edge, and when dry, place flat on a couple of chunks of 2 X 4 or styrofoam to allow you to get all around the edges for their varnish.
Binkster	posted 06-17-2011 02:48 PM ET (US) Pete, the styrofoam idea is an improvement over plywood. I'll do it that way next time. I learned the plywood on screws trick about 50 years ago when working in a boat yard doing varnish work. I don`t think styrofoam boards were invented yet, so I never modernized. Hang or leaning boards to varnish? I didn't think experienced varnishers did that anymore. Possibility of sags, runs, and boards falling over, and takes twice as long, doing only one side at a time.
Tohsgib	posted 06-17-2011 03:17 PM ET (US) How would you keep a hanging twart from moving when you varnish it?
Slick 50	posted 06-18-2011 09:26 AM ET (US) The swinging is not a problem if you use a second hole to put a small screw in or another temporary wire to hold the piece steady while working on it. You can also use your other hand to hold it still then touch up the hold point with careful strokes. Rick
Binkster	posted 06-18-2011 08:54 PM ET (US) Wow, make an easy job hard, how long does it take you to put a coat of varnish on a 13 foot interior. With the screw point method. less than 45 minutes both sides.
home Aside	posted 06-19-2011 04:17 PM ET (US) I've used the hanging method and also have used Dowl rods to lay the pieces on to keep them up off the flat surface with as little contact with the varnished wood as possible, both have worked well.... I do like Binkie & Petes nail/screw point idea, no that I think about it that's the method Mike at Nautical Lumber uses. How come I always here about these other methods after I'm done varnishing? Pat
PeteB88	posted 06-25-2011 11:18 PM ET (US) I've hung pieces too and for years before I figured out the foam board and sharp point screw method. I'd still hang them no problem and usually drove a finish nail into an edge and bent it over to hang by itself or on a rope or wire line. No matter what "chasing runs and sags" is always the final step and I do it until the finish tacks up to the point where it's impossible. I always leave a room fan going on slow away from the wet pieces and not directly on them. Keeping room air moving helps accelerate curing times.
Waterwonderland	posted 06-25-2011 11:58 PM ET (US) Mike at Nautical Lumber has special racks and a spray booth. I have seen some odd pieces propped up to get at the nooks and crannies, but never seen him do the actual spraying.
dowdhh	posted 06-26-2011 07:47 PM ET (US) Wow! I agree with Binkster " make an easy job hard" I refinished the wood on my 13 foot'er. I put a coat on one side laying flat on saw horses put them in my shed and did the other side the next day, and repeated, utill I got however many coats I have now. All I know is it looks fine after 2 years. Compared to other projects, this should not be such a big deal.
wezie	posted 06-27-2011 09:40 PM ET (US) I hang things as discussed and use disposable gloves to handle them as necessary while finishing the bottom. Allows one coat all over vs one coat every two or four days.
PeteB88	posted 06-27-2011 11:52 PM ET (US) It's extremely difficult to spray varnish successfully without proper commercial equipment and booth. Been there done that. Not sure how Mike does it either, been in his shop several times. You can do just fine with brushes. Take your time, do it right - proper commercial supplies and tools necessary.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 07-03-2011 09:39 AM ET (US) At Sherwin-Williams the other day to buy paint to do the inside of the garage at the dive shack, I saw a plastic device called "Painters Pyramids" which seem to be commercialized version of drywall screwes through plywood/styrofoam Chuck
raygun	posted 07-07-2011 02:56 PM ET (US) Aye Chuck, they work great. www.painterspyramid.com Reusable and no Styrofoam or plywood with nails/screws to clean up.
Binkster	posted 07-07-2011 09:37 PM ET (US) You need a "clean room" in order to spray varnish. I don`t know why its more difficult to get right than paint but it is. A few years ago I decided to spray varnish my 14' mahogany race boat. On one of my rental homes that was vacant at the time there is a 10x20 shed that had a wooden floor and was in good condition and tight. I swept it out and then hosed it out, everything, floor, walls and inside the roof. It was really clean. I closed it up and waited for it to dry out for a couple of days. I pushed the boat in on its trailer(it was all sanded in my garage). I went over the entire boat with a tack cloth. After that I sprayed on about 4 coats of Pettitts Captains varnish.(after one coat tacked up I would spray another.) It looked fantastic and I locked the place up and went home thinking how much easier it is to spray varnish than brushing it on. Well, I came back the next day, opened up the doors and "What the---", it looked good but was full of dust and very rough. So I towed it home, sanded it smooth, and varnished it again with a brush in my garage, again it looked fantastic. But this time it had no dust in it. I never figured out what happened, I strained the varnish too.