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Author Topic:   Wetsanding Varnish

Binkster posted 12-01-2011 10:49 PM ET (US)
Recently I visited a friend of mines shop where he builds custom high performance mahogany runabouts (Raveau Boats) in Palmetto Fl..
He had recently finished a 17 footer, and the varnish job was incredible. I asked him how he did it and he said that the dust situation is so bad in his shop that he wet sands the finished job and then waxes it, after he applys eight coats of Pettits Z-Spar Captains varnish in the normal fashion, scuff sanding between coats, he then wet sands the job. I would say the varnish job looked as good as any new piano.
Well, I have done a bit of wetsanding on paint and I had a piece of mahogany laying around that was about 2 feet long. It was what was left of the front thwart on my 13 footer after I did some remodeling a few months ago. It was newly varnished about three years ago, the varnish still looked very good as the boat is kept in the garage and seldom used.
So I started out with 1000 grit paper, sanded till it was smooth, then went to 1500 grit, and then 2000 grit and finished with a 3000 grit sanding pad. I did this all by hand, as I don't have a big enough compressor to use a DA sander like the auto paint shops use. Then I waxed it with Meguiars Mirror Glaze which is a polish, not a wax. I could see my face in the varnish and it was incredibly smooth
Here is a pic. It really hard to see the difference in the picture, the unsanded part still looks good but if you notice the ceiling fan is clearly reflected in the sanded part of the seat and the blades of the fan are diffused in the old varnish.
So if your varnish is getting dull, but still in decent shape, think about wet sanding it instead of varnishing.
rich

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/wetsandingvarnish. jpg
zotcha posted 12-02-2011 09:33 AM ET (US)
Wow Bink! Nice note. My eight or so coats have held up extremely well since my refurbish in 2005, also having been garaged ever since. The thwart shows minimal, minor scratches from the two throwable cushions. I was led to believe that a high speed buffer, polishing bonnet and 3M Finesse It I, II, or III would accomplish similar results but have not attempted.
On another note, my 2004 white Toyota Tacoma has NEVER been waxed and is looking dull. Haven't been in the auto detailing business in over 10 years and not sure where to start. A Dual Action may not reveal the swirls of years past. Such a small truck I really don't want to pay someone else, just out of the loop on modern day solutions. Nice pic included. Be well. Michael.
Blackduck posted 12-02-2011 03:19 PM ET (US)
This method would be good for a "Garage Queen". but foe boats that are left exposed, not so good. Even if you are very careful, you will erode the edges as you wet sand. They tend to get raised, and you end up breaking thru the finish, or almost, so that within a year or less, you start to have failures on the edges, which means another round of refinishing.
Blackduck posted 12-02-2011 03:33 PM ET (US)
I did a couple of sump covers for a guy, and I used this method. I spent an hour on each of them, they looked like a guitar top when I finished, beautiful. But way to much time to be practical.
Binkster posted 12-02-2011 04:38 PM ET (US)
I don't think you will erode the edges as you sand. In many cases the edges build up too much varnish anyway, and I'm using very fine paper too. 1000-1500-2000-3000. If your sanding a good varnish job you can eliminate the 1000. Also It takes way less way time then sanding and revarnishing. I spent less than 15 minutes on the seat piece which was 1 foot by 2 ft. I think you must rub too hard, if you are sanding the varnish thin on the edges. How many coats of varnish, should be at least 8. Its a finesse job, and easy to learn. I do the same thing to my bowling balls for bowling on dry lanes, they're very slick.
Blackduck posted 12-02-2011 05:17 PM ET (US)
Maybe, but still way to much time for a boat. If you didn't have to refinish every couple of years, I'd say great, but-
Binkster posted 12-02-2011 09:43 PM ET (US)
Well, some folks feel differently, but then If I tied my boat to a mooring buoy in RI I wouldn't mess with wet sanding.
rich
dfmcintyre posted 12-02-2011 10:34 PM ET (US)
I think that wet sanding is a reasonable alternative with confronted with a workshop that's compromised with dirt.
Bink -
Next time you see Bob, tell him that my dad (along with his two brothers-in-law) all used to race Raveau's. Dad was pretty competitive in D stock's in the early 50's in the midwest. We may have some old photos that I can scan, if he's interested.
Regards - Don
Tohsgib posted 12-03-2011 09:55 AM ET (US)
Next time Binks...swing by as I am only a couple miles away.
Binkster posted 12-04-2011 10:26 PM ET (US)
df, Bob is always looking for pictures of Raveaus for his album. Recently I gave him a pic. of my dad's 1956 15' Raveau pleasure runabout, one of the few non raceboats that Marcelle built at the time.

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Author	Topic: Wetsanding Varnish
Binkster	posted 12-01-2011 10:49 PM ET (US) Recently I visited a friend of mines shop where he builds custom high performance mahogany runabouts (Raveau Boats) in Palmetto Fl.. He had recently finished a 17 footer, and the varnish job was incredible. I asked him how he did it and he said that the dust situation is so bad in his shop that he wet sands the finished job and then waxes it, after he applys eight coats of Pettits Z-Spar Captains varnish in the normal fashion, scuff sanding between coats, he then wet sands the job. I would say the varnish job looked as good as any new piano. Well, I have done a bit of wetsanding on paint and I had a piece of mahogany laying around that was about 2 feet long. It was what was left of the front thwart on my 13 footer after I did some remodeling a few months ago. It was newly varnished about three years ago, the varnish still looked very good as the boat is kept in the garage and seldom used. So I started out with 1000 grit paper, sanded till it was smooth, then went to 1500 grit, and then 2000 grit and finished with a 3000 grit sanding pad. I did this all by hand, as I don't have a big enough compressor to use a DA sander like the auto paint shops use. Then I waxed it with Meguiars Mirror Glaze which is a polish, not a wax. I could see my face in the varnish and it was incredibly smooth Here is a pic. It really hard to see the difference in the picture, the unsanded part still looks good but if you notice the ceiling fan is clearly reflected in the sanded part of the seat and the blades of the fan are diffused in the old varnish. So if your varnish is getting dull, but still in decent shape, think about wet sanding it instead of varnishing. rich http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/wetsandingvarnish. jpg
zotcha	posted 12-02-2011 09:33 AM ET (US) Wow Bink! Nice note. My eight or so coats have held up extremely well since my refurbish in 2005, also having been garaged ever since. The thwart shows minimal, minor scratches from the two throwable cushions. I was led to believe that a high speed buffer, polishing bonnet and 3M Finesse It I, II, or III would accomplish similar results but have not attempted. On another note, my 2004 white Toyota Tacoma has NEVER been waxed and is looking dull. Haven't been in the auto detailing business in over 10 years and not sure where to start. A Dual Action may not reveal the swirls of years past. Such a small truck I really don't want to pay someone else, just out of the loop on modern day solutions. Nice pic included. Be well. Michael.
Blackduck	posted 12-02-2011 03:19 PM ET (US) This method would be good for a "Garage Queen". but foe boats that are left exposed, not so good. Even if you are very careful, you will erode the edges as you wet sand. They tend to get raised, and you end up breaking thru the finish, or almost, so that within a year or less, you start to have failures on the edges, which means another round of refinishing.
Blackduck	posted 12-02-2011 03:33 PM ET (US) I did a couple of sump covers for a guy, and I used this method. I spent an hour on each of them, they looked like a guitar top when I finished, beautiful. But way to much time to be practical.
Binkster	posted 12-02-2011 04:38 PM ET (US) I don't think you will erode the edges as you sand. In many cases the edges build up too much varnish anyway, and I'm using very fine paper too. 1000-1500-2000-3000. If your sanding a good varnish job you can eliminate the 1000. Also It takes way less way time then sanding and revarnishing. I spent less than 15 minutes on the seat piece which was 1 foot by 2 ft. I think you must rub too hard, if you are sanding the varnish thin on the edges. How many coats of varnish, should be at least 8. Its a finesse job, and easy to learn. I do the same thing to my bowling balls for bowling on dry lanes, they're very slick.
Blackduck	posted 12-02-2011 05:17 PM ET (US) Maybe, but still way to much time for a boat. If you didn't have to refinish every couple of years, I'd say great, but-
Binkster	posted 12-02-2011 09:43 PM ET (US) Well, some folks feel differently, but then If I tied my boat to a mooring buoy in RI I wouldn't mess with wet sanding. rich
dfmcintyre	posted 12-02-2011 10:34 PM ET (US) I think that wet sanding is a reasonable alternative with confronted with a workshop that's compromised with dirt. Bink - Next time you see Bob, tell him that my dad (along with his two brothers-in-law) all used to race Raveau's. Dad was pretty competitive in D stock's in the early 50's in the midwest. We may have some old photos that I can scan, if he's interested. Regards - Don
Tohsgib	posted 12-03-2011 09:55 AM ET (US) Next time Binks...swing by as I am only a couple miles away.
Binkster	posted 12-04-2011 10:26 PM ET (US) df, Bob is always looking for pictures of Raveaus for his album. Recently I gave him a pic. of my dad's 1956 15' Raveau pleasure runabout, one of the few non raceboats that Marcelle built at the time.