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Author Topic:   Teak Top Coat With Clear Resin

dfmcintyre posted 02-25-2012 09:56 PM ET (US)
I've been wondering how durable a coating of clear gel coat with the Hi-Gloss additive would be on teak:
http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Clear_Gel_Coat_just_gel_coats_00180/ Gel_Coats
http://www.fibreglast.com/product/ Duratec_Clear_Hi_Gloss_Gel_Coat_Additive_1040/Gel_Coats
Would go on quite a bit thicker then varnish, sprayable. Sand and buff out.

Tom and Larry--thoughts?
Regards - Don
jimh posted 02-26-2012 09:39 AM ET (US)
Separated from another discussion.
L H G posted 02-26-2012 12:10 PM ET (US)
Hi Don - To answer, I don't know, but isn't that similar to what they do with restaurant tables and bar tops, where they build up the thick clear coating? I have noticed that eventually these tables yellow badly and then the thick clear coating cracks and peels off.
It might be worth trying on a scrap of wood, or something like cooler/console cleats, before actually risking a piece of original teak on a classic boat.
dfmcintyre posted 02-26-2012 07:02 PM ET (US)
Larry -
From what I recall, most of the tables / bar tops are done with epoxy, and yea, it can yellow over time.
The preferred thickness of a gel coat application is .010" to .020 and the info on the website states that it offers UV light stability and is non-yellowing.
The kit is one quart with hardener for $43. The downside is that they recommend an additive which goes for $120 that allows for open air cure....
Might have to give them a call for further.
Best - Don
Tom W Clark posted 02-28-2012 09:56 AM ET (US)
Don -- If you want a durable and gloss finish for teak, consider an automotive clear coat. My boat builder brother-in-law has been using this system on his Whalers and other boats for some time now and it is proving to be very tough and durable.
He uses a PPG Industries product called OMNI AU MC 260 with the MH 167 hardener. He typically sprayes it over several coats of conventional varnish to give it a traditional look. Here is the console of his 1971 Outrage III:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/Edson_Teak_Wheel.jpg
nauticallumber posted 02-28-2012 09:59 AM ET (US)
I've experimented some over the years.
One of the issues you may have, is good adhesion between the Gelcoat & the teak. Although it bonds together, the bonding strength will not be the same as epoxy over teak.
Although gelcoat is tough, with a good hit or bump, the gelcoat stays intact but separates from teak causing a yellowish spot or blister.
Hope this helps,
Mike
Nautical Lumber Co
Binkster posted 02-28-2012 08:14 PM ET (US)
I would use Tom's method, and I plan to do the same thing. It has to be sprayed.
rich
westcoastwhaler posted 03-01-2012 05:25 PM ET (US)
I know of a yacht that has used the clear coat method for a number of years and it looks flawless. They have experimented a bit and some is epoxy with clear coat over the top. The other section is varnish with clear coat over the top.
The epoxy section is lighter in color but looks fantastic. I have been contemplating going to this method for a couple of years, but have not taken the plunge, so I have no first hand experience.
Since it is clear coat, you can also wet-sand/wax/buff out minor imperfections so the finished product will look that much better.
I would take a piece of scrap teak and try it out to see if it meets your expectations.
dfmcintyre posted 03-01-2012 06:28 PM ET (US)
Hmmmm. Maybe time for a few experiments...
Westcoast - Is the clear coat you mentioned a clear gel coat resin or sprayed on like Tom posts?
Mike - Understand about the bump issue. Did you ever try gel over either epoxy or varnish?
Tom - Did you ever get info on how many coats of varnish were applied first?
Thanks all - Don
westcoastwhaler posted 03-02-2012 02:06 AM ET (US)
Automotive clear coat, similar to what Tom described. I believe it was a 3M brand with UV inhibitors, but I don't have specifics.
Tom W Clark posted 03-02-2012 09:39 AM ET (US)
Don -- He told me just a couple coats. The purpose of the varnish is to give the woodwork an ambered golden color so it looks like traditional varnished woodwork. He uses Awlspar M 3131 varnish which tends to cure fairly quickly so the solvents in the clear coat won't attack it.
He also says the clear coat has vastly superior UV protection.
64nauset posted 03-03-2012 02:25 PM ET (US)
Don, polyester isn't a quality material like epoxy, and might easily crack under stress, UV, etc., as mentioned already. My personal workflow for mahogany is to seal with CPES penetrating epoxy, then a coat of standard epoxy (I use Mas for it's flexibility), then 6 coats traditional varnish. It is suggested by CPES and others to add the next component when the undercoat is still slightly green for best adhesion. A strong bond is assured between epoxies. Works for the first coat of varnish as well. The traditional varnish look also proffers the traditional maintenance regimen. I don't like that part. To do it again I would use Awlgrip's marine system, Awlbrite, for clearcoating. I've seen it, it looks traditional, and seems to hold up better than traditional varnish according to owners whose vessels are in the water year around. That assumes teak on most of them. I don't know what it takes to prepare teak for epoxy, but it's done all the time. The Awlbrite application happens in a few days. Varnish, well, not so quick.
http://www.awlgrip.com/products/varnishes/awlbrite.aspx
Open the "Clear" PDF under product data sheets
http://www.pbase.com/bmcelya/image/126444009
Epoxy plus standard varnish
whale posted 03-13-2012 11:55 AM ET (US)
You could cover the teak with poly resin + fiberglass.
having little glass mat will make it much stronger and it can be invisible.
place i but my resin has product below.
Im sure most places will too.

A waxed, orthophthalic, U.V. stabilized, water clear polyester surfboard finishing resin specifically designed for surfacing surfboards/sailboards, boats and other applications. Also available in unwaxed.

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Author	Topic: Teak Top Coat With Clear Resin
dfmcintyre	posted 02-25-2012 09:56 PM ET (US) I've been wondering how durable a coating of clear gel coat with the Hi-Gloss additive would be on teak: http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Clear_Gel_Coat_just_gel_coats_00180/ Gel_Coats http://www.fibreglast.com/product/ Duratec_Clear_Hi_Gloss_Gel_Coat_Additive_1040/Gel_Coats Would go on quite a bit thicker then varnish, sprayable. Sand and buff out. Tom and Larry--thoughts? Regards - Don
jimh	posted 02-26-2012 09:39 AM ET (US) Separated from another discussion.
L H G	posted 02-26-2012 12:10 PM ET (US) Hi Don - To answer, I don't know, but isn't that similar to what they do with restaurant tables and bar tops, where they build up the thick clear coating? I have noticed that eventually these tables yellow badly and then the thick clear coating cracks and peels off. It might be worth trying on a scrap of wood, or something like cooler/console cleats, before actually risking a piece of original teak on a classic boat.
dfmcintyre	posted 02-26-2012 07:02 PM ET (US) Larry - From what I recall, most of the tables / bar tops are done with epoxy, and yea, it can yellow over time. The preferred thickness of a gel coat application is .010" to .020 and the info on the website states that it offers UV light stability and is non-yellowing. The kit is one quart with hardener for $43. The downside is that they recommend an additive which goes for $120 that allows for open air cure.... Might have to give them a call for further. Best - Don
Tom W Clark	posted 02-28-2012 09:56 AM ET (US) Don -- If you want a durable and gloss finish for teak, consider an automotive clear coat. My boat builder brother-in-law has been using this system on his Whalers and other boats for some time now and it is proving to be very tough and durable. He uses a PPG Industries product called OMNI AU MC 260 with the MH 167 hardener. He typically sprayes it over several coats of conventional varnish to give it a traditional look. Here is the console of his 1971 Outrage III: http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/Edson_Teak_Wheel.jpg
nauticallumber	posted 02-28-2012 09:59 AM ET (US) I've experimented some over the years. One of the issues you may have, is good adhesion between the Gelcoat & the teak. Although it bonds together, the bonding strength will not be the same as epoxy over teak. Although gelcoat is tough, with a good hit or bump, the gelcoat stays intact but separates from teak causing a yellowish spot or blister. Hope this helps, Mike Nautical Lumber Co
Binkster	posted 02-28-2012 08:14 PM ET (US) I would use Tom's method, and I plan to do the same thing. It has to be sprayed. rich
westcoastwhaler	posted 03-01-2012 05:25 PM ET (US) I know of a yacht that has used the clear coat method for a number of years and it looks flawless. They have experimented a bit and some is epoxy with clear coat over the top. The other section is varnish with clear coat over the top. The epoxy section is lighter in color but looks fantastic. I have been contemplating going to this method for a couple of years, but have not taken the plunge, so I have no first hand experience. Since it is clear coat, you can also wet-sand/wax/buff out minor imperfections so the finished product will look that much better. I would take a piece of scrap teak and try it out to see if it meets your expectations.
dfmcintyre	posted 03-01-2012 06:28 PM ET (US) Hmmmm. Maybe time for a few experiments... Westcoast - Is the clear coat you mentioned a clear gel coat resin or sprayed on like Tom posts? Mike - Understand about the bump issue. Did you ever try gel over either epoxy or varnish? Tom - Did you ever get info on how many coats of varnish were applied first? Thanks all - Don
westcoastwhaler	posted 03-02-2012 02:06 AM ET (US) Automotive clear coat, similar to what Tom described. I believe it was a 3M brand with UV inhibitors, but I don't have specifics.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-02-2012 09:39 AM ET (US) Don -- He told me just a couple coats. The purpose of the varnish is to give the woodwork an ambered golden color so it looks like traditional varnished woodwork. He uses Awlspar M 3131 varnish which tends to cure fairly quickly so the solvents in the clear coat won't attack it. He also says the clear coat has vastly superior UV protection.
64nauset	posted 03-03-2012 02:25 PM ET (US) Don, polyester isn't a quality material like epoxy, and might easily crack under stress, UV, etc., as mentioned already. My personal workflow for mahogany is to seal with CPES penetrating epoxy, then a coat of standard epoxy (I use Mas for it's flexibility), then 6 coats traditional varnish. It is suggested by CPES and others to add the next component when the undercoat is still slightly green for best adhesion. A strong bond is assured between epoxies. Works for the first coat of varnish as well. The traditional varnish look also proffers the traditional maintenance regimen. I don't like that part. To do it again I would use Awlgrip's marine system, Awlbrite, for clearcoating. I've seen it, it looks traditional, and seems to hold up better than traditional varnish according to owners whose vessels are in the water year around. That assumes teak on most of them. I don't know what it takes to prepare teak for epoxy, but it's done all the time. The Awlbrite application happens in a few days. Varnish, well, not so quick. http://www.awlgrip.com/products/varnishes/awlbrite.aspx Open the "Clear" PDF under product data sheets http://www.pbase.com/bmcelya/image/126444009 Epoxy plus standard varnish
whale	posted 03-13-2012 11:55 AM ET (US) You could cover the teak with poly resin + fiberglass. having little glass mat will make it much stronger and it can be invisible. place i but my resin has product below. Im sure most places will too. A waxed, orthophthalic, U.V. stabilized, water clear polyester surfboard finishing resin specifically designed for surfacing surfboards/sailboards, boats and other applications. Also available in unwaxed.