What's going on with my Surge Brake Actuator?

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Author Topic:   What's going on with my Surge Brake Actuator?

David Pendleton posted 07-25-2012 10:32 PM ET (US)
Today, after backing my boat/trailer in to my designated "slip" in the marina parking lot, I noticed the surge brake actuator was almost fully compressed. The brakes themselves do not engage in reverse, so I do not use the "lock-out" lever.
This has not happened before. I suspect air in the lines.
Am I close? Any ideas?
Eagleman posted 07-26-2012 07:36 AM ET (US)
Dave,
If your fluid level is good I suspect either a leak in the system at one of the hub connections or bleeder valves. If not that the actuator is not building pressure because the master cylinder might need a rebuild. I don't think it's air in the lines, good luck.
Russ
Robert V posted 07-26-2012 08:50 AM ET (US)
Dave,
Do you have a 5 pin flat electrical connector on your trailer? If so, the connector has a reverse lockout solenoid for your surge brakes. This keeps the brakes from actuating when going up-grade in reverse. I had a similar issue with my trailer brakes, even with only a slight grade. This may be no help with your trailer, but was an issue for mine.
Robert
tmann45 posted 07-26-2012 09:06 AM ET (US)

quote:
The brakes themselves do not engage in reverse

You don't say, but due to the statement above I assume you have drum brakes. When I had drums I found that they need adjusting on a fairly regular basis, this could be your problem. Check your fluid level, if it is low but not sucking air and you don't see any leaks, I would have the shoe adjustment checked.
Tom
russellbailey posted 07-26-2012 09:34 AM ET (US)
My experience is like Eagleman's.
I've had this happen on two occasions, each time due to a brake fluid leak. First time, the flexible tubing used to connect to the caliper had cracked - when I had a specialty boat trailer shop replace them they told me that was not uncommon. I replaced the lines then, using metal lines for almost the whole system (just 3 flex hoses - frame to axle on each axle and to the actuator).
Second time was due to leakage around the actuator. My solution was to replace the actuator.
6992WHALER posted 07-26-2012 10:54 AM ET (US)
I just replaced the actuator on my trailer this week.
I have been fighting with it since the day it was installed.
The trailer has brakes but the actuator fully compresses every time I stop. I have bleed the system, and adjusted the brakes.
After replacing the actuator once and rebuilding it once I have moved to a different brand and upped the capacity from 8,000 to 12,500. It is not all put back together so I do not know if I have fixed it yet.
But if this is the first time you have had an issue I would start with checking the fluid level (It has been two years since you used it, you might have a slow leak that finally got low enough to effect you or something has failed during the down time.), then the adjustment of the brakes. If these are all OK I would bleed just to eliminate air in the lines as a possibility.
If this all fails then I would assume the actuator has gone bad.
Get the boat off and bring it over to my house. I am doing my brakes right now. When I finish my trailer we can do yours.
John
David Pendleton posted 07-26-2012 04:30 PM ET (US)
The fluid level is good and there are no signs of leaks. I'm going to check the adjustment as soon as I can get it home. They're working on a bilge pump problem now, which I would normally do myself but I haven't had the time to get it home.
I did finally get my trailer tires installed yesterday. Small victories.
Thanks all.
jimh posted 07-27-2012 08:43 AM ET (US)
In vehicle brakes we have been accustomed to having self-adjusting drum brakes for many decades, but in boat trailers with drum brakes the brakes are typically not self-adjusting. The brake shoes wear with use, and the clearance between the brake shoes and the brake drum increases. The brake shoes must travel farther to be brought into contact with the brake drum.
Dave observes that the surge actuator travel was greater than normal. This could be due to the brakes needed adjustment.
Prior to the use of self-adjusting brakes on vehicles, I suspect it was common for drum brakes to be periodically checked and adjusted, and this certainly may have been a service done by the vehicle owner. I don't recall seeing this done to my Dad's car when I was a youth, so perhaps this practice goes back to prior to c.1950.
I drove my boat trailer for many years without adjusting the drum brake clearance. When I put new brakes on the trailer, I found that the initial wear was occurring quickly, and after about 1,000-miles of travel the brakes needed readjustment of the clearance. I have an especially-shaped metal tool that can reach into the brakes and turn the star washer, and, when the boat is not on the trailer, it is easy to ajdust the brake clearance. I jack up the axle for the wheel I want to adjust so the tire clears the ground. Then I spin the tire by hand and adjust the brake clearance.
andygere posted 07-27-2012 02:14 PM ET (US)
As others have said, my first check would be the brake lining clearance. Take up on the star adjusters to get the pads closer to the drum. Next, I'd bleed the brake system. If the drums were grossly out of adjustment, I think it's possible that some air may have been drawn into the system. If none of that works, you may have a leaking seal in your actuator master cylinder.
Here's a link to a good reference article on troubleshooting and maintaining trailer brakes.
http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html#adjust_brakes
Mambo Minnow posted 07-28-2012 08:29 AM ET (US)
Jim, could you please post a picture of your star tool. I would like to acquire one. It might be a good addition to your reference articles on trailering.
Jefecinco posted 07-28-2012 09:48 AM ET (US)
Mambo,
Many drum brakes can be adjusted with a flat tip screwdriver. A wide blade is usually better as long as it fits through the adjusting aperture in the backing plate.
The method I've used is to jack the axle up until the tire clears the surface. The usual safety rules apply so use blocking or a jack stand to support the weight while you're working and use chocks on the opposite side so the trailer can't roll in either direction.
Remove the rubber cover from the aperture in the backing plate. Insert the screwdriver (or special tool) into the aperture and engage the "star" wheel with the screwdriver tip. Tighten the brake drum linings against the brake drum until the wheel cannot be turned by hand. Slowly loosen the adjustment just until the wheel turns freely. Replace the rubber cover, lower the tire back to the surface and go to the other side and repeat the adjustment.
Test the brake adjustment by towing the trailer and applying the brakes frequently for a few minutes. Stop and touch the drums to check for heat. They should be warm but not hot and both should be approximately the same temperature. If the drums are cold the adjustment needs to be snugged up a bit and if they are hot the adjustment should be loosened.
Make changes to the adjustment in very small increments to avoid having to start over. After doing the job once you will find it very easy the next time.
If your brake linings are worn to the point where they should be replaced consider installing disc brakes manufactured for salt water use on boat trailers. Disc brakes require far less attention, do a better job of stopping your trailer, and will probably outlast your trailer if rinsed after each launching.
Butch

jimh posted 07-28-2012 10:38 AM ET (US)
A drum brake adjusting tool looks like this:
http://www.rjtool.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/ 9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_2794.jpg
David Pendleton posted 07-28-2012 11:35 AM ET (US)
Craftsman also sells a "kit" with a the most common tools required to work on drum brakes.
6992WHALER posted 07-28-2012 11:36 PM ET (US)
Unfortunately my springs get in the way so I can not use my brake adjusting tool and have to use a flat screw driver. The brake adjusting tool is much easier to use.
Mambo Minnow posted 07-29-2012 06:50 PM ET (US)
Thanks, I had never seen this tool. I had heard of folks using just a screwdriver. Usually, with salt use I end up replacing the whole drum in two years. I have thought of switching to disc next, but honestly I have seen just as many badly corroded calipers as drum shoes.
While I have your attention, are their any benefits to vinyl vs. metal brake lines? I currently have metal routed inside the trailer frame. No way I can isolate a leak.
6992WHALER posted 07-30-2012 11:46 AM ET (US)
I was reading the owners manual for my new Titan Model 10 Actuator, and was surprised to read that the expected service life of the unit is 5 years. It does say that a well cared for one might last longer.
I would assume that the more use, the faster it wears out, so my trailer that spends a large amount of time just sitting, might last longer.
David Pendleton posted 07-30-2012 01:02 PM ET (US)
Mine is about 10 years old. I checked the manual online and it does not indicate a service life length.
I do know that the brakes haven't been adjusted in a long, long time, so that's likely the culprit.
ivansfo posted 07-30-2012 07:12 PM ET (US)
Had the same problem last year on my 9 year old Pacific brand trailer. The surge actuator compresses all the way but the brakes don't engage. The brake fluid level was fine.
Ended up replacing the Titan/Dico 10 master cylinder which fixed the problem. The part cost about $60 and spent a weekend replacing it.
If you do troubleshoot master cylinder , I recommend wearing eye protection. The master cylinder shoots brake fluid up toward the filler cap!

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Author	Topic: What's going on with my Surge Brake Actuator?
David Pendleton	posted 07-25-2012 10:32 PM ET (US) Today, after backing my boat/trailer in to my designated "slip" in the marina parking lot, I noticed the surge brake actuator was almost fully compressed. The brakes themselves do not engage in reverse, so I do not use the "lock-out" lever. This has not happened before. I suspect air in the lines. Am I close? Any ideas?
Eagleman	posted 07-26-2012 07:36 AM ET (US) Dave, If your fluid level is good I suspect either a leak in the system at one of the hub connections or bleeder valves. If not that the actuator is not building pressure because the master cylinder might need a rebuild. I don't think it's air in the lines, good luck. Russ
Robert V	posted 07-26-2012 08:50 AM ET (US) Dave, Do you have a 5 pin flat electrical connector on your trailer? If so, the connector has a reverse lockout solenoid for your surge brakes. This keeps the brakes from actuating when going up-grade in reverse. I had a similar issue with my trailer brakes, even with only a slight grade. This may be no help with your trailer, but was an issue for mine. Robert
tmann45	posted 07-26-2012 09:06 AM ET (US) quote: The brakes themselves do not engage in reverse You don't say, but due to the statement above I assume you have drum brakes. When I had drums I found that they need adjusting on a fairly regular basis, this could be your problem. Check your fluid level, if it is low but not sucking air and you don't see any leaks, I would have the shoe adjustment checked. Tom
russellbailey	posted 07-26-2012 09:34 AM ET (US) My experience is like Eagleman's. I've had this happen on two occasions, each time due to a brake fluid leak. First time, the flexible tubing used to connect to the caliper had cracked - when I had a specialty boat trailer shop replace them they told me that was not uncommon. I replaced the lines then, using metal lines for almost the whole system (just 3 flex hoses - frame to axle on each axle and to the actuator). Second time was due to leakage around the actuator. My solution was to replace the actuator.
6992WHALER	posted 07-26-2012 10:54 AM ET (US) I just replaced the actuator on my trailer this week. I have been fighting with it since the day it was installed. The trailer has brakes but the actuator fully compresses every time I stop. I have bleed the system, and adjusted the brakes. After replacing the actuator once and rebuilding it once I have moved to a different brand and upped the capacity from 8,000 to 12,500. It is not all put back together so I do not know if I have fixed it yet. But if this is the first time you have had an issue I would start with checking the fluid level (It has been two years since you used it, you might have a slow leak that finally got low enough to effect you or something has failed during the down time.), then the adjustment of the brakes. If these are all OK I would bleed just to eliminate air in the lines as a possibility. If this all fails then I would assume the actuator has gone bad. Get the boat off and bring it over to my house. I am doing my brakes right now. When I finish my trailer we can do yours. John
David Pendleton	posted 07-26-2012 04:30 PM ET (US) The fluid level is good and there are no signs of leaks. I'm going to check the adjustment as soon as I can get it home. They're working on a bilge pump problem now, which I would normally do myself but I haven't had the time to get it home. I did finally get my trailer tires installed yesterday. Small victories. Thanks all.
jimh	posted 07-27-2012 08:43 AM ET (US) In vehicle brakes we have been accustomed to having self-adjusting drum brakes for many decades, but in boat trailers with drum brakes the brakes are typically not self-adjusting. The brake shoes wear with use, and the clearance between the brake shoes and the brake drum increases. The brake shoes must travel farther to be brought into contact with the brake drum. Dave observes that the surge actuator travel was greater than normal. This could be due to the brakes needed adjustment. Prior to the use of self-adjusting brakes on vehicles, I suspect it was common for drum brakes to be periodically checked and adjusted, and this certainly may have been a service done by the vehicle owner. I don't recall seeing this done to my Dad's car when I was a youth, so perhaps this practice goes back to prior to c.1950. I drove my boat trailer for many years without adjusting the drum brake clearance. When I put new brakes on the trailer, I found that the initial wear was occurring quickly, and after about 1,000-miles of travel the brakes needed readjustment of the clearance. I have an especially-shaped metal tool that can reach into the brakes and turn the star washer, and, when the boat is not on the trailer, it is easy to ajdust the brake clearance. I jack up the axle for the wheel I want to adjust so the tire clears the ground. Then I spin the tire by hand and adjust the brake clearance.
andygere	posted 07-27-2012 02:14 PM ET (US) As others have said, my first check would be the brake lining clearance. Take up on the star adjusters to get the pads closer to the drum. Next, I'd bleed the brake system. If the drums were grossly out of adjustment, I think it's possible that some air may have been drawn into the system. If none of that works, you may have a leaking seal in your actuator master cylinder. Here's a link to a good reference article on troubleshooting and maintaining trailer brakes. http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html#adjust_brakes
Mambo Minnow	posted 07-28-2012 08:29 AM ET (US) Jim, could you please post a picture of your star tool. I would like to acquire one. It might be a good addition to your reference articles on trailering.
Jefecinco	posted 07-28-2012 09:48 AM ET (US) Mambo, Many drum brakes can be adjusted with a flat tip screwdriver. A wide blade is usually better as long as it fits through the adjusting aperture in the backing plate. The method I've used is to jack the axle up until the tire clears the surface. The usual safety rules apply so use blocking or a jack stand to support the weight while you're working and use chocks on the opposite side so the trailer can't roll in either direction. Remove the rubber cover from the aperture in the backing plate. Insert the screwdriver (or special tool) into the aperture and engage the "star" wheel with the screwdriver tip. Tighten the brake drum linings against the brake drum until the wheel cannot be turned by hand. Slowly loosen the adjustment just until the wheel turns freely. Replace the rubber cover, lower the tire back to the surface and go to the other side and repeat the adjustment. Test the brake adjustment by towing the trailer and applying the brakes frequently for a few minutes. Stop and touch the drums to check for heat. They should be warm but not hot and both should be approximately the same temperature. If the drums are cold the adjustment needs to be snugged up a bit and if they are hot the adjustment should be loosened. Make changes to the adjustment in very small increments to avoid having to start over. After doing the job once you will find it very easy the next time. If your brake linings are worn to the point where they should be replaced consider installing disc brakes manufactured for salt water use on boat trailers. Disc brakes require far less attention, do a better job of stopping your trailer, and will probably outlast your trailer if rinsed after each launching. Butch
jimh	posted 07-28-2012 10:38 AM ET (US) A drum brake adjusting tool looks like this: http://www.rjtool.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/ 9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_2794.jpg
David Pendleton	posted 07-28-2012 11:35 AM ET (US) Craftsman also sells a "kit" with a the most common tools required to work on drum brakes.
6992WHALER	posted 07-28-2012 11:36 PM ET (US) Unfortunately my springs get in the way so I can not use my brake adjusting tool and have to use a flat screw driver. The brake adjusting tool is much easier to use.
Mambo Minnow	posted 07-29-2012 06:50 PM ET (US) Thanks, I had never seen this tool. I had heard of folks using just a screwdriver. Usually, with salt use I end up replacing the whole drum in two years. I have thought of switching to disc next, but honestly I have seen just as many badly corroded calipers as drum shoes. While I have your attention, are their any benefits to vinyl vs. metal brake lines? I currently have metal routed inside the trailer frame. No way I can isolate a leak.
6992WHALER	posted 07-30-2012 11:46 AM ET (US) I was reading the owners manual for my new Titan Model 10 Actuator, and was surprised to read that the expected service life of the unit is 5 years. It does say that a well cared for one might last longer. I would assume that the more use, the faster it wears out, so my trailer that spends a large amount of time just sitting, might last longer.
David Pendleton	posted 07-30-2012 01:02 PM ET (US) Mine is about 10 years old. I checked the manual online and it does not indicate a service life length. I do know that the brakes haven't been adjusted in a long, long time, so that's likely the culprit.
ivansfo	posted 07-30-2012 07:12 PM ET (US) Had the same problem last year on my 9 year old Pacific brand trailer. The surge actuator compresses all the way but the brakes don't engage. The brake fluid level was fine. Ended up replacing the Titan/Dico 10 master cylinder which fixed the problem. The part cost about $60 and spent a weekend replacing it. If you do troubleshoot master cylinder , I recommend wearing eye protection. The master cylinder shoots brake fluid up toward the filler cap!