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Author Topic:   Running Lights (my nemesis)

project13 posted 08-03-2012 10:54 AM ET (US)
The one real problem I have since I splashed my project has been the running lights. I have had to make repairs to the system every season and sometimes (often) during the season. Recently I tried wiring them in series to reduce the number of connections but they are not very bright so I am going to have to rewire them yet again and go back to parallel.
I believe myself to be a competent marine electrician, I use heat shrink connectors everywhere with liquid electric tape on top and am very careful with all of the connections.
Is there a secret that I don't know, or is it just that my little tiny boat is so close to the water that stuff will corrode and break and it's a fact of life in salt water?
Any hints or tips are appreciated.
Thanks

Tom W Clark posted 08-03-2012 11:01 AM ET (US)
It would be useful if you explained what boat you have and what lights you are using.
contender posted 08-03-2012 02:13 PM ET (US)
What boat do you have?, ( mine 16'7") I got tired of the same thing with the bow navigation lights and the wires of the rear light, I moved the rear light to the top of the cowling of the engine (no more exposed connections or junction box on the inside of the hull) and purchased Attwood navigation lights and placed them on each side of the console, no more wire problems or ugly wires...To each their own
jimh posted 08-03-2012 08:21 PM ET (US)
No competent marine electrician would wire lamps in series and expect them to retain their original brightness.
project13 posted 08-05-2012 09:16 PM ET (US)
Jim,
It's your sandbox ad no one can argue with that but I am not sure how that is supposed to be helpful. Like I said I was trying to reduce the number of connections that's all. I expected the lights to be less bright but was not sure how much. The answer is "a lot."
The boat is a 1978 13. Contender I have seen similar rigs but I don't have a console and I am not interested in making holes in the cowling.
Also I have never used a junction box/bus bar. There are 3 things that get power on board. Depth finder, bilge and lights. They are all separate home runs to the + and - posts.
Any and all suggestions would be helpful.
blacksmithdog posted 08-06-2012 09:56 AM ET (US)
project13:
Contact me via e-mail, my address is in my profile. I have the same boat as you. You can see it here:
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusions/personal_page/view_personal_page. php?user_id=1876
I'll give you any help I can.
weekendwarrior posted 08-06-2012 11:17 AM ET (US)
Use tinned marine wire, solder the connections and soak the connections with dielectric grease covered with water tight marine shrink wrap. Do your best to keep them dry, but this is how I did my bilge pump connections in the tunnel and they've been great for what must be close to 10 years now, of year round salt water use. Corrosion is electric, so be sure there are no nicks in the wire anywhere, or the entire wire will corrode inside.
Tom W Clark posted 08-06-2012 11:54 AM ET (US)
If the boat is a 1978 13 footer, this is easy. You have the three piece Barbour rub rail to run the wire to the boat light in.
Use good wire and good connectors. The original wire that Whaler used was 18 Ga. and untinned. Plain old lamp cord, essentially. It was lousy.
For the run to the bow light, I use 16 Ga. fully tinned duplex wire from ANCOR. In order to get the wire to fit within the Rub Rail Insert, use their speaker wire which does NOT have an extra sheath around the wire.
This wire will be trouble free and very durable. Be sure to allow enough at each end to make direct connections to the bow light and the terminal block at the stern without any additional splices.
For connectors, I only use ANCOR's adhesive lined heat-shrink terminals and butt connectors. These are much better than mere heat shrink covered connectors. No need for any additional electrical tape or dielectric grease. Just be sure to heat them enough for the adhesive to fully flow. I have these butt connectors on my trailer that is used exclusively in saltwater and after 7 years, they are still perfect in spite of being fully immersed in saltwater at each launch and retrieve.
Lastly, the pigtail connectors used by Whaler for the stern light is lousy. The reason it was used is that it is small enough to pass through the stand-off mounts and it can be installed on the end of raw wire with the tiny set screws. I have given up on those connectors altogether.
I now use the Sea-Dog 426880-1 or the Cole-Hersee 11172-BX polarized "trailer" style connectors. There in enough wire length to allow a terminal to be crimped directly on the half that goes to the terminal block and enough to get the stern light pole itself so you can have the butt connectors inside the light pole where they are both protected and invisible.
Wired as described above, and assuming you have OE lights, you will never have trouble with the navigation lights on your 13 footer again.
And yes, Jim is correct, if you actually wired your light in series, that is a big part of your problem.
jimh posted 08-07-2012 08:06 AM ET (US)
A sandbox has little to do with the behavior of an incandescent lamp, and sandbox ownership even less.
The light output of an incandescent lamp is typically equal to the applied voltage raised to the 3.4-power. If you decrease the applied voltage by half, as would occur if you wired two lamps of equal resistance in series, the light output would decrease by
Light output = 0.5 ^ 3.4
Light output = 0.095 of the original
Even an incompetent marine electrician who mistakently thought that light output was proportional to voltage would have expected the light output to decrease by a factor of 0.5 because when two lamps are wired in series each gets half the voltage (assuming they're the same resistance).
A competent mariner would also realize that the navigation lighting on his boat was designed to meet federal regulations for visibility, and that any reduction in the light output would be likely to cause the lamp to fail to meet its original rating.
Cf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Incandescent_light_bulb#Light_output_and_lifetime
project13 posted 08-09-2012 09:27 PM ET (US)
Thank you all for the responses. I think the wire is a big thing I was not considering, and I will try soldering the connections and what was suggested by weekend warrior.
Blacksmithdog great rig you have.
Jim it has been almost 20 years since high school physics. I really do appreciate the refresher.
weekendwarrior posted 08-10-2012 04:44 PM ET (US)
As mentioned above, the Ancor brand stuff is pretty good, I have had good luck with their wire and shrink tube.
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-10-2012 05:16 PM ET (US)
I replaced my pole light wiring with a continuous run of
Ancor duplex wiring from the pigtails on the socket to the
light switch. That was about 10 years ago. Zero problems.
You do have to leave enough slack to remove and stow the pole.
Chuck
jimh posted 08-11-2012 09:58 PM ET (US)
Another serious flaw with wiring navigation lamps in series is the probability for failure. In a series circuit any circuit element that fails stops the flow of current in the entire circuit. In navigation lighting it would be a serious problem for all navigation lamps to extinguish when one lamp fails.
Also, when one lamp fails in a series circuit it become hard to tell where the failure has occurred. All the lamps go out, and there is no indication of which lamp might be the one that has become an open circuit.
jimh posted 08-11-2012 10:12 PM ET (US)
A further problem with wiring navigation lamps in series is the method of controlling them. In a series circuit, all the lamps receive current when the circuit is energized. There would be no way to select only certain lamps to received current as might be needed to change the navigation lighting. For example, how would you illuminate just the anchor light and not the sidelights if they were wired in series?
Also, in a series circuit, all the lamps would need to be the same type so that they all burned with equal intensity. The navigation rules require that the lights have different intensities or visibilities. This could be very hard to control if all the lamps were wired in series.
jimh posted 08-11-2012 10:54 PM ET (US)
Questions about navigation lamp wiring in classic Boston Whaler boats are frequently asked, and there is an answer in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the website. See:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4
jimh posted 08-11-2012 10:59 PM ET (US)
There is a basic article on power distribution methods for the small boat in the REFERENCE section at
Boat Electrical Circuits and Wiring Practices
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/boatWiring.html
The article offers advice on methods for distribution of electrical power on a small boat.

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Author	Topic: Running Lights (my nemesis)
project13	posted 08-03-2012 10:54 AM ET (US) The one real problem I have since I splashed my project has been the running lights. I have had to make repairs to the system every season and sometimes (often) during the season. Recently I tried wiring them in series to reduce the number of connections but they are not very bright so I am going to have to rewire them yet again and go back to parallel. I believe myself to be a competent marine electrician, I use heat shrink connectors everywhere with liquid electric tape on top and am very careful with all of the connections. Is there a secret that I don't know, or is it just that my little tiny boat is so close to the water that stuff will corrode and break and it's a fact of life in salt water? Any hints or tips are appreciated. Thanks
Tom W Clark	posted 08-03-2012 11:01 AM ET (US) It would be useful if you explained what boat you have and what lights you are using.
contender	posted 08-03-2012 02:13 PM ET (US) What boat do you have?, ( mine 16'7") I got tired of the same thing with the bow navigation lights and the wires of the rear light, I moved the rear light to the top of the cowling of the engine (no more exposed connections or junction box on the inside of the hull) and purchased Attwood navigation lights and placed them on each side of the console, no more wire problems or ugly wires...To each their own
jimh	posted 08-03-2012 08:21 PM ET (US) No competent marine electrician would wire lamps in series and expect them to retain their original brightness.
project13	posted 08-05-2012 09:16 PM ET (US) Jim, It's your sandbox ad no one can argue with that but I am not sure how that is supposed to be helpful. Like I said I was trying to reduce the number of connections that's all. I expected the lights to be less bright but was not sure how much. The answer is "a lot." The boat is a 1978 13. Contender I have seen similar rigs but I don't have a console and I am not interested in making holes in the cowling. Also I have never used a junction box/bus bar. There are 3 things that get power on board. Depth finder, bilge and lights. They are all separate home runs to the + and - posts. Any and all suggestions would be helpful.
blacksmithdog	posted 08-06-2012 09:56 AM ET (US) project13: Contact me via e-mail, my address is in my profile. I have the same boat as you. You can see it here: http://www.whalercentral.com/infusions/personal_page/view_personal_page. php?user_id=1876 I'll give you any help I can.
weekendwarrior	posted 08-06-2012 11:17 AM ET (US) Use tinned marine wire, solder the connections and soak the connections with dielectric grease covered with water tight marine shrink wrap. Do your best to keep them dry, but this is how I did my bilge pump connections in the tunnel and they've been great for what must be close to 10 years now, of year round salt water use. Corrosion is electric, so be sure there are no nicks in the wire anywhere, or the entire wire will corrode inside.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-06-2012 11:54 AM ET (US) If the boat is a 1978 13 footer, this is easy. You have the three piece Barbour rub rail to run the wire to the boat light in. Use good wire and good connectors. The original wire that Whaler used was 18 Ga. and untinned. Plain old lamp cord, essentially. It was lousy. For the run to the bow light, I use 16 Ga. fully tinned duplex wire from ANCOR. In order to get the wire to fit within the Rub Rail Insert, use their speaker wire which does NOT have an extra sheath around the wire. This wire will be trouble free and very durable. Be sure to allow enough at each end to make direct connections to the bow light and the terminal block at the stern without any additional splices. For connectors, I only use ANCOR's adhesive lined heat-shrink terminals and butt connectors. These are much better than mere heat shrink covered connectors. No need for any additional electrical tape or dielectric grease. Just be sure to heat them enough for the adhesive to fully flow. I have these butt connectors on my trailer that is used exclusively in saltwater and after 7 years, they are still perfect in spite of being fully immersed in saltwater at each launch and retrieve. Lastly, the pigtail connectors used by Whaler for the stern light is lousy. The reason it was used is that it is small enough to pass through the stand-off mounts and it can be installed on the end of raw wire with the tiny set screws. I have given up on those connectors altogether. I now use the Sea-Dog 426880-1 or the Cole-Hersee 11172-BX polarized "trailer" style connectors. There in enough wire length to allow a terminal to be crimped directly on the half that goes to the terminal block and enough to get the stern light pole itself so you can have the butt connectors inside the light pole where they are both protected and invisible. Wired as described above, and assuming you have OE lights, you will never have trouble with the navigation lights on your 13 footer again. And yes, Jim is correct, if you actually wired your light in series, that is a big part of your problem.
jimh	posted 08-07-2012 08:06 AM ET (US) A sandbox has little to do with the behavior of an incandescent lamp, and sandbox ownership even less. The light output of an incandescent lamp is typically equal to the applied voltage raised to the 3.4-power. If you decrease the applied voltage by half, as would occur if you wired two lamps of equal resistance in series, the light output would decrease by Light output = 0.5 ^ 3.4 Light output = 0.095 of the original Even an incompetent marine electrician who mistakently thought that light output was proportional to voltage would have expected the light output to decrease by a factor of 0.5 because when two lamps are wired in series each gets half the voltage (assuming they're the same resistance). A competent mariner would also realize that the navigation lighting on his boat was designed to meet federal regulations for visibility, and that any reduction in the light output would be likely to cause the lamp to fail to meet its original rating. Cf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Incandescent_light_bulb#Light_output_and_lifetime
project13	posted 08-09-2012 09:27 PM ET (US) Thank you all for the responses. I think the wire is a big thing I was not considering, and I will try soldering the connections and what was suggested by weekend warrior. Blacksmithdog great rig you have. Jim it has been almost 20 years since high school physics. I really do appreciate the refresher.
weekendwarrior	posted 08-10-2012 04:44 PM ET (US) As mentioned above, the Ancor brand stuff is pretty good, I have had good luck with their wire and shrink tube.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 08-10-2012 05:16 PM ET (US) I replaced my pole light wiring with a continuous run of Ancor duplex wiring from the pigtails on the socket to the light switch. That was about 10 years ago. Zero problems. You do have to leave enough slack to remove and stow the pole. Chuck
jimh	posted 08-11-2012 09:58 PM ET (US) Another serious flaw with wiring navigation lamps in series is the probability for failure. In a series circuit any circuit element that fails stops the flow of current in the entire circuit. In navigation lighting it would be a serious problem for all navigation lamps to extinguish when one lamp fails. Also, when one lamp fails in a series circuit it become hard to tell where the failure has occurred. All the lamps go out, and there is no indication of which lamp might be the one that has become an open circuit.
jimh	posted 08-11-2012 10:12 PM ET (US) A further problem with wiring navigation lamps in series is the method of controlling them. In a series circuit, all the lamps receive current when the circuit is energized. There would be no way to select only certain lamps to received current as might be needed to change the navigation lighting. For example, how would you illuminate just the anchor light and not the sidelights if they were wired in series? Also, in a series circuit, all the lamps would need to be the same type so that they all burned with equal intensity. The navigation rules require that the lights have different intensities or visibilities. This could be very hard to control if all the lamps were wired in series.
jimh	posted 08-11-2012 10:54 PM ET (US) Questions about navigation lamp wiring in classic Boston Whaler boats are frequently asked, and there is an answer in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the website. See: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4
jimh	posted 08-11-2012 10:59 PM ET (US) There is a basic article on power distribution methods for the small boat in the REFERENCE section at Boat Electrical Circuits and Wiring Practices http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/boatWiring.html The article offers advice on methods for distribution of electrical power on a small boat.