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Author Topic:   1957 Johnson Seahorse 3-HP

RobertRibley posted 08-19-2012 11:30 AM ET (US)
I tried to start my family-inherited [1957 Johnson 3-HP Seahorse] to find that it was only running on one cylinder. Interestingly, it still started. I think I am going to tear it down and do a rebuild, replace ignition parts, and possibly rings if it measures out. Any tips on working on this old engine? What should compression readings be? I do not have a service manual for it. Also [does it] have needle bearings? It should be fun working on an engine older than myself.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
seahorse posted 08-19-2012 12:29 PM ET (US)
I doubt that the motor needs rebuilding unless something in its history caused a major problem. That motor has brass bushings, no needle bearings so it requires a 16:1 or 20:1 fuel-oil mix. Read the decal on the front of the motor.
My guess is that you may have an ignition problem.
Compression is nomally low - about 70#
Www.outboardbooks.com for a manual
andygere posted 08-20-2012 02:48 PM ET (US)
Many common parts for those motors were available from Napa Auto Parts. Not sure if it's still true, but might be worth a check if you need something basic like plugs or gaskets.
seahorse posted 08-20-2012 04:52 PM ET (US)
Evinrude dealers probably stock the ignition parts, water pumps, and carb kits, along with most recoil starter parts for it.
Not bad for motors over 50 years old. I wonder how may 1957 Ford and Chevy parts are stocked at car dealerships respectively.
Stephen_12 posted 08-20-2012 07:18 PM ET (US)
I have worked on a few of these engines and they seem to last forever. I own a 1958 Evinrude 3 and a Johnson JW-10 3 hp. Both run great. The secret is to clean and rebuild the carburetors and put in a new set of ignition coils, points, condensers. The water pump impellers are still available from Sierra so no shortage of them on line.
The original coils were coated with a plastic resin that would break down over time from engine heat and would crack after about 10 - 15 years. Many of these engines get tossed aside but they actually run smoother than any other outboard I have ever owned. Sierra makes after market coils that work very well and fit perfectly.
Just make sure you use a flywheel puller so you don't damage the crankshaft when you remove the flywheel.
JBCornwell posted 08-20-2012 11:10 PM ET (US)
That is the best outboard ever made, Robert.
Don't fix what ain't broke. If she starts and runs on one the carb is okay.
Most likely is a bad coil. They go bad after 40 years or so. I would change them both.
16:1 or 20:1 would not harm her, but the official mix is 24:1
Anything over 60psi is okay as long as both are within 15%
Red sky at night. . .
JB
RobertRibley posted 08-21-2012 12:32 AM ET (US)
Thanks for all of the help and advice. After interviewing my wife's brothers to whom I will refer to as Moe, Larry, Shemp and Curly, the motor has probably had a long, hard life. I've heard everything from "my dad bought it new" to "dad was retired from the Navy and he took it from a Navy ship". I've also heard "we've always put oil in it" and "we used only two stroke motor oil" and "does it need oil?". "It never did run that good on one cylinder". I am sure most of it's life was hard with the gorilla tactics of those guys.
I've ordered a complete tune up kit from Master Tech Marine and will let you know the outcome.
Thanks again,
Robert
JBCornwell posted 08-21-2012 03:29 PM ET (US)
Does the "Complete tune up kit" include coils, Robert??
A coil is all you need. If the kit doesn't include them you will still need to buy at least one.
pcrussell50 posted 08-21-2012 03:39 PM ET (US)
I had a '59 Super Seahorse 35hp. It was totally reliable, easy to fix, and there were parts for just about anything you need to fix. The guy I sold it to is a super hardcore fisherman who uses it in the ocean all the time. He even goes out by himself at 9pm and stays out all night, hoop-netting for lobster--such is his faith in that motor. It does gobble fuel, but that is a small price to pay for many many times cheaper purchase price, easy cheap repair, and lifetime longevity.
-Peter
RobertRibley posted 08-23-2012 12:06 AM ET (US)
Yes, it comes with two new coils that say they are better with modern materials. I did a compression check with a nice snap on compression gauge. Top cylinder was 77 lbs and lower cylinder was 76 lbs. The kit also comes with new head gasket, new plugs, new wires, new condensers, new water pump, carb kit. I would like to hear some suggestions on engine height. It has a lower cavitation plate just above the prop. I would like to set it up like my classic 13, but the aluminum skiff has a flat bottom. I would be using it on some skinny water where I would not want to take the 13. I am re-doing the wood in the stern of the boat so I can readjust the engine height to whatever works best in shallow water. I am also building holders for my oars. I know I can find the answers here.
Thanks again,
Robert
JBCornwell posted 08-23-2012 07:47 AM ET (US)
I would set the anti-ventilation plate (usually incorrectly called a cavitation plate) even with the bottom of the boat, Robert. Higher than that risks ventilating the prop, lower increases drag and risk of bottoming in shallow waters.
Red sky at night. . .
JB
lizard posted 08-23-2012 10:48 PM ET (US)
This guy is a wealth of information on older outboards, like yours. He never tried to sell me a thing (in fact, discouraged me from buying an older 2-4 hp to put on an older canoe for lake use). That said, he has stuff to sell.
http://www.penn.itgo.com/
He knew these motors inside out, answered every question I emailed him and provided good rationale behind his guidance.
I've had a number of 1970's and 80's Johnson Seahorses, that were bullet proof (yes and drank fuel) which is why I looked at getting a 1950/1960 era motor for my older canoe.
I have saved his email correspondence about these older motors, if it would be beneficial but what I would say is contact him, he was awesome.
PeteB88 posted 08-23-2012 11:10 PM ET (US)
I know where there is an Evinrude 3 HP, fold up lower unit, in plastic or fiberglass case, perfect, flawless motor, case almost perfect $500 bucks. Very, very tempting.
Should I?
RobertRibley posted 09-11-2012 11:55 PM ET (US)
Well
I have it running and it hits on two now. I need to find the right prop.
The one I have has no name or # on it. It is a three blade and it is too tall. The large prop will not let it rev up. One of the brothers said it came with
a two blade smaller in diameter prop. Maybe some one knows what would be best. The three seems to large in diameter.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/RobertRibley/threehorseprop002. jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/RobertRibley/threehorseprop001. jpg
Thanks for all of the help,
Robert
A2J15Sport posted 09-20-2012 01:12 PM ET (US)
JB knows those engines as well as anyone. I agree that these little jewels were about the finest engine made-ever-by anyone.
About the only weak point, of those engines, was the coils. However, the new replacements are much better.
I personally have three of them. A 1958, and two 1966's. One of the 66's is the fold up model. Very cool.
About the only difference in the older ones and the 60's models was the bearings. The 60's (63 I believe) went to needle bearings thus could run on 50:1.
If you have the "angled/weedless" lower unit, they like to run deep on the transom. Since there is NO way that engine will ever plane anything, running deep makes no difference.
The only other thing to look for is the cooling water exhaust. It exits near the top of the leg through several tiny holes. Those tend to get clogged. A toothpick clears them quite nicely.
Decent maintenace will allow that engine to run another 50 years.
RobertRibley posted 09-29-2012 12:54 PM ET (US)
I have completed the tune up - replacing coils, plugs, wires, water pump, points and condenser, head gasket and have gone in the carb three times thinking I have missed something. The problems is it will not rev up like most normal 2 strokes. It also will not idle down very low without dieing. The ones I have listened to on YouTube seem to rev up higher and idle down lower. Sport - on your, does it have these qualities? I have the original two blade prop and a three blade prop that I purchased at a prop shop in Sacramento. No numbers on the three blade. The old salt at the counter said it will work. The motor seems to run the same with either prop. It is a bit frustrating, but something keeps drawing me back to work on it again. I've always like the saying "nothing matters but a good horse" and then I realized it is a SeaHorse...
Robert
seahorse posted 09-29-2012 05:20 PM ET (US)

What are the compression numbers?
Are you running it 16:1 -- 1/2 pint per gallon?
What are the high and low speed needles set at?
Has anyone had the motor apart? That one can run with the pistons in backwards, but will not run well.

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Author	Topic: 1957 Johnson Seahorse 3-HP
RobertRibley	posted 08-19-2012 11:30 AM ET (US) I tried to start my family-inherited [1957 Johnson 3-HP Seahorse] to find that it was only running on one cylinder. Interestingly, it still started. I think I am going to tear it down and do a rebuild, replace ignition parts, and possibly rings if it measures out. Any tips on working on this old engine? What should compression readings be? I do not have a service manual for it. Also [does it] have needle bearings? It should be fun working on an engine older than myself. Thanks in advance, Robert
seahorse	posted 08-19-2012 12:29 PM ET (US) I doubt that the motor needs rebuilding unless something in its history caused a major problem. That motor has brass bushings, no needle bearings so it requires a 16:1 or 20:1 fuel-oil mix. Read the decal on the front of the motor. My guess is that you may have an ignition problem. Compression is nomally low - about 70# Www.outboardbooks.com for a manual
andygere	posted 08-20-2012 02:48 PM ET (US) Many common parts for those motors were available from Napa Auto Parts. Not sure if it's still true, but might be worth a check if you need something basic like plugs or gaskets.
seahorse	posted 08-20-2012 04:52 PM ET (US) Evinrude dealers probably stock the ignition parts, water pumps, and carb kits, along with most recoil starter parts for it. Not bad for motors over 50 years old. I wonder how may 1957 Ford and Chevy parts are stocked at car dealerships respectively.
Stephen_12	posted 08-20-2012 07:18 PM ET (US) I have worked on a few of these engines and they seem to last forever. I own a 1958 Evinrude 3 and a Johnson JW-10 3 hp. Both run great. The secret is to clean and rebuild the carburetors and put in a new set of ignition coils, points, condensers. The water pump impellers are still available from Sierra so no shortage of them on line. The original coils were coated with a plastic resin that would break down over time from engine heat and would crack after about 10 - 15 years. Many of these engines get tossed aside but they actually run smoother than any other outboard I have ever owned. Sierra makes after market coils that work very well and fit perfectly. Just make sure you use a flywheel puller so you don't damage the crankshaft when you remove the flywheel.
JBCornwell	posted 08-20-2012 11:10 PM ET (US) That is the best outboard ever made, Robert. Don't fix what ain't broke. If she starts and runs on one the carb is okay. Most likely is a bad coil. They go bad after 40 years or so. I would change them both. 16:1 or 20:1 would not harm her, but the official mix is 24:1 Anything over 60psi is okay as long as both are within 15% Red sky at night. . . JB
RobertRibley	posted 08-21-2012 12:32 AM ET (US) Thanks for all of the help and advice. After interviewing my wife's brothers to whom I will refer to as Moe, Larry, Shemp and Curly, the motor has probably had a long, hard life. I've heard everything from "my dad bought it new" to "dad was retired from the Navy and he took it from a Navy ship". I've also heard "we've always put oil in it" and "we used only two stroke motor oil" and "does it need oil?". "It never did run that good on one cylinder". I am sure most of it's life was hard with the gorilla tactics of those guys. I've ordered a complete tune up kit from Master Tech Marine and will let you know the outcome. Thanks again, Robert
JBCornwell	posted 08-21-2012 03:29 PM ET (US) Does the "Complete tune up kit" include coils, Robert?? A coil is all you need. If the kit doesn't include them you will still need to buy at least one.
pcrussell50	posted 08-21-2012 03:39 PM ET (US) I had a '59 Super Seahorse 35hp. It was totally reliable, easy to fix, and there were parts for just about anything you need to fix. The guy I sold it to is a super hardcore fisherman who uses it in the ocean all the time. He even goes out by himself at 9pm and stays out all night, hoop-netting for lobster--such is his faith in that motor. It does gobble fuel, but that is a small price to pay for many many times cheaper purchase price, easy cheap repair, and lifetime longevity. -Peter
RobertRibley	posted 08-23-2012 12:06 AM ET (US) Yes, it comes with two new coils that say they are better with modern materials. I did a compression check with a nice snap on compression gauge. Top cylinder was 77 lbs and lower cylinder was 76 lbs. The kit also comes with new head gasket, new plugs, new wires, new condensers, new water pump, carb kit. I would like to hear some suggestions on engine height. It has a lower cavitation plate just above the prop. I would like to set it up like my classic 13, but the aluminum skiff has a flat bottom. I would be using it on some skinny water where I would not want to take the 13. I am re-doing the wood in the stern of the boat so I can readjust the engine height to whatever works best in shallow water. I am also building holders for my oars. I know I can find the answers here. Thanks again, Robert
JBCornwell	posted 08-23-2012 07:47 AM ET (US) I would set the anti-ventilation plate (usually incorrectly called a cavitation plate) even with the bottom of the boat, Robert. Higher than that risks ventilating the prop, lower increases drag and risk of bottoming in shallow waters. Red sky at night. . . JB
lizard	posted 08-23-2012 10:48 PM ET (US) This guy is a wealth of information on older outboards, like yours. He never tried to sell me a thing (in fact, discouraged me from buying an older 2-4 hp to put on an older canoe for lake use). That said, he has stuff to sell. http://www.penn.itgo.com/ He knew these motors inside out, answered every question I emailed him and provided good rationale behind his guidance. I've had a number of 1970's and 80's Johnson Seahorses, that were bullet proof (yes and drank fuel) which is why I looked at getting a 1950/1960 era motor for my older canoe. I have saved his email correspondence about these older motors, if it would be beneficial but what I would say is contact him, he was awesome.
PeteB88	posted 08-23-2012 11:10 PM ET (US) I know where there is an Evinrude 3 HP, fold up lower unit, in plastic or fiberglass case, perfect, flawless motor, case almost perfect $500 bucks. Very, very tempting. Should I?
RobertRibley	posted 09-11-2012 11:55 PM ET (US) Well I have it running and it hits on two now. I need to find the right prop. The one I have has no name or # on it. It is a three blade and it is too tall. The large prop will not let it rev up. One of the brothers said it came with a two blade smaller in diameter prop. Maybe some one knows what would be best. The three seems to large in diameter. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/RobertRibley/threehorseprop002. jpg http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/RobertRibley/threehorseprop001. jpg Thanks for all of the help, Robert
A2J15Sport	posted 09-20-2012 01:12 PM ET (US) JB knows those engines as well as anyone. I agree that these little jewels were about the finest engine made-ever-by anyone. About the only weak point, of those engines, was the coils. However, the new replacements are much better. I personally have three of them. A 1958, and two 1966's. One of the 66's is the fold up model. Very cool. About the only difference in the older ones and the 60's models was the bearings. The 60's (63 I believe) went to needle bearings thus could run on 50:1. If you have the "angled/weedless" lower unit, they like to run deep on the transom. Since there is NO way that engine will ever plane anything, running deep makes no difference. The only other thing to look for is the cooling water exhaust. It exits near the top of the leg through several tiny holes. Those tend to get clogged. A toothpick clears them quite nicely. Decent maintenace will allow that engine to run another 50 years.
RobertRibley	posted 09-29-2012 12:54 PM ET (US) I have completed the tune up - replacing coils, plugs, wires, water pump, points and condenser, head gasket and have gone in the carb three times thinking I have missed something. The problems is it will not rev up like most normal 2 strokes. It also will not idle down very low without dieing. The ones I have listened to on YouTube seem to rev up higher and idle down lower. Sport - on your, does it have these qualities? I have the original two blade prop and a three blade prop that I purchased at a prop shop in Sacramento. No numbers on the three blade. The old salt at the counter said it will work. The motor seems to run the same with either prop. It is a bit frustrating, but something keeps drawing me back to work on it again. I've always like the saying "nothing matters but a good horse" and then I realized it is a SeaHorse... Robert
seahorse	posted 09-29-2012 05:20 PM ET (US) What are the compression numbers? Are you running it 16:1 -- 1/2 pint per gallon? What are the high and low speed needles set at? Has anyone had the motor apart? That one can run with the pistons in backwards, but will not run well.