Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Screw Hole Repair

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Screw Hole Repair
elvis posted 05-23-2013 09:09 PM ET (US)   Profile for elvis   Send Email to elvis  
Hi all. I'm removing the side rails from my Boston Whaler 15-foot boat and don't plan to put them back on after the refit. I'll need to fill the small screw holes. Recommend a filler for this evolution. Thanks.
mkelly posted 05-23-2013 11:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for mkelly  Send Email to mkelly     
I'm doing the same thing, in addition to installing pedestal seats. I don't recall what I've used in the past. Is your boat hull white or beige?
Russ 13 posted 05-24-2013 01:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for Russ 13  Send Email to Russ 13     
I, too, am working on a 15-footer. If you are going to re-gel coat the repaired areas, fill the holes with fiberglass filler and resin, as gel coat will not cure if covering epoxy. If you are going to paint the repaired areas, then I would suggest West System epoxy with some filler dust [micro-fibers] added to make the epoxy thicker. If using the boat for rough service, and you do not care about the looks, Marine Tex works well too, but only comes in white or gray.
jimh posted 05-24-2013 09:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Small holes like those remaining when a small screw fastener is removed can be filled with resin and thickener.

Advice on how to make repairs is given in:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/repairInstructions.html

If the repair must be done in an area with the non-skid pattern, the process is more complicated. An impression must be taken of the non-skid pattern, and that impression is used as a mold to transfer the pattern to the repair.

Binkster posted 05-24-2013 11:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Binkster  Send Email to Binkster     
You never said how you are going to hide the holes after you fill them. That would determine the method and material used.

rich

elvis posted 05-24-2013 03:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for elvis  Send Email to elvis     
Thanks for the replies.

Bought this boat at govt sale where it began its life. Someone years ago painted over all the desert tan with some cheesy white enamel, which is peeling everywhere. I found some evidence of scrape/dock damage on the port side, so I suspect that's why they painted the whole thing.

Under the peeling is shiny desert an gelcoat. My plan is this:

Put stripper on inside cheesy paint, remove, and see what the gelcoat looks like. If buffable to original or respectable, then leave it original. This is the best option. Fill screw holes...thanks for the recommendations on filler.

If ugly gelcoat underneath on inside, I plan to wetsand entire inside, and prep for new paint. May go with basecoat clearcoat automotive on inside in desert tan. I've painted many cars, pretty savvy side profession...

Plan to add a set of whaler bronze oar locks like a 13 has....

While I like them, I plan to sell the side railings, as it is hard to climb in over the side with those.

Exterior: strip the ugly white down to original gelcoat and evaluate. It's desert tan under the white enamel.

Based on an damage and repairs, I'll determine if entire bottom needs to be redone...if so, it will be done in desert tan gelcoat, unless there is something better. Gelcoat is tough to work but durable.

Thanks again, all, for the replies and feedback.

Tom W Clark posted 05-25-2013 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I have yet to hear of anybody successfully using a mold to replicate the nonskid, though it is frequently offered as an idea.

Small gel coat repairs in the non-skid are surprisingly easy. I use a steel scraper on edge (about 1/16" thick) to gouge out the pattern of the non-skid. You can also use a single edge razor blade.

I have filled many, many screw holes in the non-skid and you cannot see the repaired holes unless you are on your hands and knees.

Last summer I filled eight 1/4" holes in the non-skid where the mast for a pot-puller was mounted in a Montauk. I had them all filled in an hour.

Tom W Clark posted 05-25-2013 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Tom Johnson, who used to work for Whaler as a draftsman, recently wrote:

quote:
Razor blade the pattern, that's how Chuck at Whaler did it... Watched him do it many times.
Binkster posted 05-25-2013 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Binkster  Send Email to Binkster     
elvis, OK, so your a car painter, you shouldn't have any trouble with this project. Hope you can remove all the old paint. If you can, and wind up with good gelcoat you can fill the screw holes with Spectrum Gel Coat patch paste repair kit. Its basically a small jar of bondo in colors to match(not perfect but close) Whalers gel coat. If you decide to paint the boat, Awlgrip 2 part polyurethane is the preferred paint. You can fill the holes on the smooth surfaces with Duraglass #24035 by USC. (bondo type material for surface repairs on glass boats and Corvettes.) Available at Automotive paint and body repair stores. Or Gorilla glue works well to. Ream out the hole a little bit, wet it with a sponge, inject some of the glue and cover it with tape. Sand smooth after it sets. Forget about all that filler with epoxy mumbo jumbo, you're just making extra work for yourself. Epoxy is alot harder than the hull and when you sand you'll leave low impressions surrounding the repair.

btw Finishmasters Auto and Industrial Paint in Largo Fl. matched my Awlgrip Desert Tan perfectly and has the formula on record. They are a national chain.
rich

jimh posted 05-25-2013 03:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Tom--your method of making a non-skid pattern is new to me, as I don't recall you suggesting it before. Apparently you heard about it second-hand from someone else who cited Boston Whaler using it. I think it is a marvelous idea, and hearing that you had success with it is also marvelous. It sounds workable for a small area like the 0.375-inch or smaller area of a hole from a screw fasteners, but I am a bit skeptical if it would be as facile for larger areas. Using an engraving tool to engrave the non-skid pattern may be an alternative. I would like to see some photographs that demonstrate the method and show the engraving tools that were used.
Tom W Clark posted 05-25-2013 04:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Actually Jim, I came with the idea myself. I first used it in 1986. I have posted this technique here on ContinuousWave many times over the years. Here is an example from the year 2001:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001191.html

Tom W Clark posted 05-25-2013 04:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
...and another:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000943.html

elvis posted 05-26-2013 05:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for elvis  Send Email to elvis     
Wow, great info, thanks for the helpful input--chuck

http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Cweigleatbellsouthdotnet/library/ ?sort=2&page=2

jimh posted 05-26-2013 09:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Tom--thanks for the cites. Your idea had slipped my mind. I see I read of it twelve years ago, and since must have forgotten about it. I am glad you have reintroduced it here. Be sure to bring that up more often than once per decade, as it sounds like a workable method for engraving by hand the non-skid pattern into a small area as one would have in filling a hole left over from a small fastener.
jimh posted 05-26-2013 09:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There is often a mention made that gel coat resin will not cure if applied over a repair made with epoxy. This can occur if the epoxy repair is not properly prepared for a top coating of gel coat resin. The problem stems from the tendency of epoxy to create an amine blush on its surface when it cures. The amine blush inhibits the cure of some polyester resins. The amine blush is soluble in water, and washing the epoxy repair area with hot water and detergent will remove the amine. I have first hand experience in apply gel coat resin over repairs made with epoxy and I did not have problems with the gel coat resin not curing.

In making repairs with gel coat resin, one should be aware that gel coat resin typically does not cure properly if exposed to air. The resin must be covered to prevent exposure to air. Some resins are formulated with a wax in them which will create the air seal. These resins are often identified as being patch kit resins. Spraying poly-vinyl alcohol (PVA) onto a gel coat repair will also create a seal from the air and allow proper cure.

The concern mentioned that epoxy repairs will tend to be harder than the surrounding hull laminate should also be observed. This is particularly true if the hull laminate is old, as the material tends to become soft with age. But if the epoxy is thickened with a proper filler, it becomes easier to sand and fair.

I tend to favor epoxy and specifically the West System epoxy provided in the small foil packets of their repair kit products. My preference is based on several factors:

--the epoxy has a very long shelf life; until the two-parts of the epoxy are mixed they will tend to remain fresh and usable for a very long time;

--the mixed resin always cures in a predictable time; the foil packages provide the proper ratio of ingredients, and I have never experienced a batch that did not cure;

--the batch created from one foil package is the appropriate quantity for small repairs like we are discussing;

In contrast, using gel coat resin has none of these characteristics, and, indeed quite the opposite:

--the shelf life is limited; polyester resins are actually slowly curing in their own containers; the reaction is just accelerated by the catalyst. The resin will cure in the container if given a few years. I have some old small jars of hard gel coat bought at considerable expense and cured before it could all be used.

--the mixing of the resin and catalyst is hard to manage in any sort of precise ratio in the very small quantities needed for these repairs. It is hard to know the precise amount of catalyst or hardener to add to a small amount of resin; the ratios are usually very high, about 1:100, and that means a very small quantity of catalyst if making a small batch of resin. (Also, the catalyst is methyl-ethyl-ketone-peroxide (MEKP) which can be hazardous, particularly to your eyes. Be careful with it.)

--the quantity of resin, even in small jars of patch kits, is usually too much for the repair area; once the resin package is opened you will only use a portion of it, leaving the opened package to begin to cure slowly on the shelf.

jimh posted 05-26-2013 09:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I should mention that a drawback to using epoxy is the tendency of the color of the material to shift with age and exposure, becoming more yellow as time goes by. This has occurred in some repairs I have made, which were once a rather good match to the color of the surrounding area and now have become more visible due to the yellowing. I have been able to come to an inner peace with this, and if I see a small repair area in the hull or deck where a slightly discolored epoxy repair is visible, I don't become overly concerned. If you want the repair to remain color stable, use gel coat resin.
Binkster posted 05-26-2013 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Binkster  Send Email to Binkster     
You can use polyester resin for any repair, large or small, epoxy isn't really necessary. The trick is, is to grind off the gelcoat surrounding the repair at least 6 inches for a small repair, and up to 12 inches for a large repair. Sand it with 60 grit paper and clean the whole area with acetone. Then do the normal laminating with polyester resin, mat/woven roving/cloth, whatever you feel comfortable with, and it will adhere permanently to the existing hull. Polyester resin won't stick permanently to gel coat or paint.
Thing is, there is alot of repair advice offered, but is it all reliable, or the best method? An old boat carpenter told me many years ago, that the simple way is always the best way, and I try to always follow that advice. Tom's advice as to repairing holes in non skid certainly sound like a simple way to do it as to the method of using a mold to replicate the non skid pattern. How can you accurately line up the pattern, so that when you remove the mold, the repair disappears?
rich

Binkster posted 05-27-2013 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Binkster  Send Email to Binkster     
I have never tried to repair Whaler non skid. The Whalers that I have restored the nonskid was beyond repair, or by cutting out the deck to install a tunnel for a center console, makes the non skid not repairable. Not only that I have found that Whaler non skid, once painted with Awlgrip is non skid no more. What I have done is sanded the nonskid, not smooth but only roughed up, and laminated 3/4Oz. mat with polyester resin over the not skid area, and finished with sand finish and Awlgrip.
Here is some pics by one or your members on his nonskid pattern repair using a mold. I don't see a pic. of the finished job. Does that look simple? I don't think so. If I were to repair non skid in a small area, I would use Tom's method. I'm not saying the mold method can't be done, and I'm sure is done properly by pro fiberglass repair shops, with plenty of trial and error experience.

rich

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.