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Author Topic:   Bilge Pump for Montauk
Sam Collins posted 06-03-2000 06:51 AM ET (US)   Profile for Sam Collins   Send Email to Sam Collins  
Need to buy a new one. Any suggestions as to what fits and works best?
kingfish posted 06-03-2000 08:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Sam-Trying as hard as I can to recall what "came" in the two Montauks I've had, and I - just - can't - remember...But, I know I replaced the pumps in both, probably a couple times, and used new pumps in the 350 to 500 gph range that I ordered either from Boat US or West Marine (Rule or Attwood or Mayfair, or something). Moral of story is I think you have some flexibility, most any of the standard profile pumps of that size fit; I personally prefer the higher capacity, dumps out water from *big* rainstorms faster.
JCF
Alioop posted 06-03-2000 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for Alioop  Send Email to Alioop     
Sam,I have a rule 1100 gph rule bilge(rule model#27D) in the rear sump and a rule float switch.Works great,as I leave my boat in a slip all season. Alioop
reeltime2 posted 06-05-2000 09:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for reeltime2  Send Email to reeltime2     
Sam,
I like the guardian 500 by attwood, it fits in the bilge sump perfect and it has the float switch built in.
triblet posted 06-05-2000 11:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The factory pump on my '98 Montauk was
a 350 GPH rule, no float switch, pump
ran whenever the switch on the console
was on. I replaced it with a 500 GPH
rule that's "smart". It comes on for
a couple of seconds every couple of minutes.
If there's nothing to pump, it shuts off
right away. If there's something to pump
it runs until there's nothing to pump.
No worries about stuck float switches.

The current pumps are even smarter: If
there's nothing to pump, they will wait
even longer before trying again.

I'm not sure there's room for anything
bigger than a 500.

Chuck Tribolet
triblet@garlic.com

whalernut posted 06-05-2000 05:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
You guys have great ideas for a bilge pump. I have a 1973 `16 Currituck and am going to put in a 500gph smart bilge pump. Does anyone know what to do on drilling the hull for the water outflow and what to fill the hole and such? Thank you and regards-JACK.
triblet posted 06-06-2000 10:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I forgot to mention that the 500 gph pump
dropped right onto the plastic clips for
the old 350. This was a pleasent surprise.

You do need to clean the screen (and the
rest of the bilge) periodically. I suck
the sand out of the bilge using a turkey
baster I cut a 3/8" of the tip off of so
the hole was a little bigger. I suck the
sand out every ten hours or so, and clean
the screen every 50-100 hours.

My Montauk came with the discharge hose
routed up and over the transom, not through
a hole.

Chuck Tribolet

Alioop posted 06-06-2000 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Alioop  Send Email to Alioop     
I looked into those "smart pumps" to try and eliminate the float switch.I found out that their is always a parasitic load from those pumps (a small amperge draw).The float swich has only got stuck once(knock on wood)in the twenty-three years I have kept my boat in a slip,when it did I replaced it immedately.I think any one should know this before installing one of these,and then someday wonder why the battery goes dead or very low without any explaination. Alioop
Ger posted 06-07-2000 07:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for Ger  Send Email to Ger     
Sam, My '72 16' Katena came with a "smart pump" installed by the previous owner. I like it. The intermittent starting lets me know its working, and the current draw is miniscule..I,ve noticed no battery power loss, I guess running the boat is keeping the battery charged. The outflow is routed through a hole drilled in the transom and sealed with marine sealant. Might not be stock but it works fine and looks okay. My boat doesn't have much room in its tunnel sump for a pump and float, so the smart pump is a great solution.
whalernut posted 06-07-2000 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Ger, I have a 1973 `16 Currituck and is the same hull as yours. I am going use the smart pump, because I have the same motor sump as yours. I guess a 350-500GPH pump should do it. It will be in a dock, but with a Mills mooring cover. Regards-JACK.
peter welch posted 06-08-2000 09:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for peter welch  Send Email to peter welch     
When you add a bilge pump did anyone add a second battery?
kingfish posted 06-08-2000 10:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Not me...

JCF

whalernut posted 06-08-2000 11:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
I`m not going to add a second battery, I`m hopeing the series 27 battery is strong enough to do it alone. Regards-Jack Graner.
tightloops posted 03-10-2001 09:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for tightloops  Send Email to tightloops     
Sorry to sound ignorant...i don't think the '77 Montauk I just purchased has a bilge pump...where should it be positioned? Thanks, Tightloops
triblet posted 03-10-2001 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Where should a bilge pump be positioned?

In the bilge.

And given there's really only
one place you can put one in the bilge
on an M17, that means at the back of the
bilge tunnel under the screwed down hatch.
This turns out to be the right place anyway
because the water flows to the back with the
nose up.

There may already be wiring in the harness,
though after 23 years it may be pretty
corroded.

Chuck

kamml posted 03-16-2001 07:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for kamml  Send Email to kamml     
I purchased an ex-government service 77 Montauk. This boat has no wiring for a bilge pump, and the small opening at the transom dioesn't look large enough for a pump. I had been told the lower plug in the trnasom should not be used as the boat rides high enough that it drains evn in the water. What I am reading here is that it should be plugged and a bilge pump added. WOuld this be necessary on a trailer boat? Should the lower transom plug be used all the time in the water? As you may have guessed It has not seen the water since my purchase.

triblet posted 03-16-2001 09:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
If I forget the lower transom plug in
my Montauk (DUH), it gets about an inch of
water on the deck in the back. This is in
salt water. In fresh water, it would
float a little deeper and have a little more
water there. Net: you need the plug.

You don't NEED a bilge pump, especially
if you don't boat in rough water and can
drain it on the trailer. But I've had some
jerk or another buzz by too close and taken
their wake over the side a couple of times,
and a couple of times I've burried my bow
on someone's wake. And I drag a bunch of
water on board every time I pull my dive
gear in. I'd think it would be nice to get that water overboard.

Wiring for a bilge pump is easy. Fuse or
circuit breaker, switch, some ancor two or
three strand cable fished down the tunnel.
Solder the connections at the pump, then
Ancor glue lined heat shrink. Remember that
those connections will be submerged.

Chuck

Bullbay posted 03-21-2001 09:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bullbay  Send Email to Bullbay     
My 89 Montauk had a bilge pump and two batteries in the stern when I bought it last year. I removed both batteries and put a single in the console and removed the bilge pump and had all the holes (42 ) plugged and gel coated. Really cleaned up the stern. I have had no problems that removing the drain plug and 3500rpm does not solve inland and on the coast.
andygere posted 03-23-2001 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Regarding the "smart bilge pumps: Is anyone using one of these in a Montauk that is berthed (covered or uncovered), and if so, does it cause enough battery drain to warrent an on-board charging system? Alternatively, is anyone berthing a Montauk with the plug out and no automatic bilge pump? My boat is on a trailer now, but I'm moving up on the waiting list.....
Chesapeake posted 03-23-2001 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
I agree with Chuck's observation. Since I moved to the midwest, my whaler has seen only fresh water (whalerguy, eat your heart out). With the plug out, she takes on about 1.5 inches of water in the stern. She did not take on that much in salt water.

Of course, if you run with the plug out, all water will drain out of the transom drain hole.

I will put definitely put in a new bilge pump this year. An evenings rain makes things too soggy first thing in the morning.

Bob

whalernut posted 03-23-2001 04:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Andygere, I put a Rule Platinum 500GPH bilge pump in my 73` `16 Currituck, and it works great and have let it go for 2 weeks and she fired right up, this is with a Series 27 battery, most people use the 24 Series, I think for the extra $10-15, the 27 is a great investment as is the Rule Platinum bilge pump! Everything is in the pump, no external switches and has a stainless steel screen! It checks itself every 10 minutes. Good luck-Jack Graner.
Barry posted 03-23-2001 11:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
andygere,

According to the West Marine Catalog regarding the Platinum Series Automatic Bilge Pumps - Power consumption in "monitor" mode is minimal-no more than .25Ah per day.

andygere posted 03-30-2001 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Jack and Barry,
Thanks for the info. I will probably install that pump when I get my boat into a slip later this year. I run two batteries, so I can isolate the starting battery and not worry too much.
Arch Autenreith posted 03-30-2001 05:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Arch Autenreith  Send Email to Arch Autenreith     
Incidentally, the previous 2 bilge pumps were screwed down at the bottom of the tunnel. Usually somewhat irritating trying to squeeze the plastic tangs at the same time to take out the actual pump (while the bottom 'screen' stays screwed to the bottom.) Now I just place it down or one it's side under the tunnel cover. I plugged the screw holes so there's less of a chance of water seeping into the foam, too. Don't know if this would work with all automatics but works fine with my manual operated one.
Chesapeake posted 03-30-2001 06:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
With all this bilge pump talk... a related question. Have any of you with the blue hull 16's machined a cover for the tunnel hole in the stern that would cover the bilge pump?

If so, from what material did you craft yours? I was thinking of making one from marine starboard.

Is it safe to drill into the lip around the well so that you can anchor some screws to hold it down? Any thoughts either way?

Bob

Soho posted 04-02-2001 01:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for Soho  Send Email to Soho     
Bob,

I was thinking about the same problem and have decided that I would try some starboard for a cover, seems like it would do the trick. I have not decided on how to fasten it down, but was considering screwing it into the "lip" using West system to create watertight anchoring holes, although if I remember correctly, the "lip" is solid glass and will handle some screws easily. Up until now I have actually just left it all uncovered.

Ciao,

Ron

Chesapeake posted 04-02-2001 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Ron:

After reading your post, I called Chuck down at whaler. He said no problem in screwing into the lip, just pre-drill, countersink and use a little 4200 to make sure there is no water migration into the hole. He suggested a #10 screw would do the trick.

Am anxious to get it done. This could really clean up the back after the new bilge pump is in.

I have a big piece of black starboard that might do the trick. Question is with the old blue hull, do white or black for the insert?

... and remember to leave a large enough opening to get my hand in for the plug...

Bob

lhg posted 04-02-2001 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Where starboard is being used on a floor, subject to getting walked on and scratched, always use black. I have beige cooler cleats, from Bosotn Whaler, on the floor, and once scratched, they can't be cleaned up very well at all. The light colors show, and permanently hold, all the dirt and abrasion.
Chesapeake posted 04-02-2001 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Thanks, Larry. Black it is. Also thanks for the info on the gas lines...

Bob

John posted 04-05-2001 10:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for John  Send Email to John     
I added a bilge pump to my previous 17'. I installed a 500 gph bilge pump with a built in float switch. However, I did not drill holes for mounting the pump or the discharge line. I simply glued the pump base down with silicon sealant and then affixed the discharge hose over into the splash well. The water drained out as quickly as the 500 gph pumped.
FISHNFF posted 04-06-2001 04:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for FISHNFF  Send Email to FISHNFF     
Most of us here in SF use our 17's for commercial fishing in some extreme conditions. Most would call us insane but it's a living. Some run 1500/2000 Rule pumps in the bilge. Some leave the cover off, some cut a hole to allow clearance. I fit a 500 Rule and a 1000 Rule with a 3 position Cole Hershee switch on the dash. One pull and the 500 is activated. Two pulls and both pumps are engaged. I had a day last year when I took one over the bow, spinning the boat and filling the boat with 6 inches of water while trolling. The next came over the stern quarter, filling the boat to the motor well. I turned down-swell, hit the pumps, and hit the throttle. The weight bogged the motor down as water poured out the transom. After all the water that would go over the transom went out, I throttled back and let the pumps do the rest. You want to get water out fast as the first wave will fill the boat and lower it so the next wave comes in easier. We wont sink but we do go over.
As far as automatic pumps, I only use one when my boat is moored with impending rain. I use an Attwood 500 with a self-contained float switch. I wire it to a power lead plug on my dash(a M/F flat to power any accessory, spotlight, pump, ect...) so it is automatic only(2 wire). It sits in the corner with a discharge over the transom. Due to its flat shape, it does not tip over.
FISHNFF posted 04-06-2001 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for FISHNFF  Send Email to FISHNFF     
By the way, both pumps, Rule 500 and 1000, fit in the bilge with the cover on. It's tight with all the wires, but it works.
Chesapeake posted 04-10-2001 01:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Bought a Rule Platinum 500 pump this weekend. It suggests screwing it to the floor, but I have a severe mental phobia that tells me not to screw it down. Any ad-hoc fixes from you old pros?

Best,

Bob

whalernut posted 04-10-2001 08:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Bob, I installed the same pump. It works awsome and I predrilled smaller than the srew sizes and then screwed the screwws in just until it grabs somewhat. Before the screws I pumped 100% siliocone in the holes to block water. Regards-Jack Graner.
Chesapeake posted 04-11-2001 10:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Jack: Thanks for the info. Did you use just the two screws provided with the pump or something smaller since you didn't screw them in all the way? As I understand you, you are just trying to keep it from falling over, not securing it like it would last forever. Is that the concept?

Jack: Saw your other post last night regarding your 11 monther. That's terrific. I hope your ready to pounce on that first 11 tender or 13 that looks good!! I have an older nauset that will be Robbie (2 yrs.) and Delaney's (3 yrs) first boat. Lucky kids. Still looking for a dump truck outrage.

Bob

stagalv posted 04-11-2001 12:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for stagalv  Send Email to stagalv     
Bob,
How about just using silicone or a dab of boatlife? Would that be enough to keep it in place? I also have a Platinum 500 which is not yet installed and I dont want to drill any holes if I don't have to.

How are you going to run your discharge hose without it looking bad? I think I am going to first paint the hose to try to match the hull color then run it out one of the motorwell drain holes. Rex

Chesapeake posted 04-11-2001 12:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Rex: Someone else suggested just siliconing the device to the floor. My only concern with that method is getting it out for routine maintenance.

I plan on using black corrogated tubing and running it out of the motor well holes as you have described. Black hose will match everything else in that area as I used spiral tubing to contain the new wiring for lights and all the rigging for the new Yamaha will be contained in a black mesh tube running through the tunnel. Seems reasonable I guess.

Painting the hose to match the hull seems like a good idea. I don't know how well Awl-grip would adhere to plastic corrugated tubing, but it might be worth a shot... Good luck.

You know, Rex, with all the work that is going on with all these Whalers, I really can't wait to make it to a renezvous to see some of them. They must be spectactular.

Bob

triblet posted 04-11-2001 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
You can get at least some of the Rule pumps
out without either unscrewing or ungluing.
There's a base that attaches to the bottom
of the well, and the pump clips to the base.

I suspect AwlGrip won't adhere well to the
plastic hose. The mold release they use
to get the mold to let go also makes the
AwlGrip let go. You'll need to do some
serious cleaning. And the paint my crack
when the hose is bent. For flexible car
bumpers, there's a paint additive.

Chuck

lhg posted 04-11-2001 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
On the earliest blue interior 16's, BW's catalog showed the bilge pump hose in clear plastic, run straight up into the splash well. There never has been an easy
solution for a bilge pump hose in this model since it was first designed in 1961!

I would use black smooth surfaced water hose (not the typical cheap plastic corregated stuff), black cable tied to the cluster of engine cable and wires, fuel hose, and mechanical steering cable coming out of the tunnel. Have the hose follow the steering cable right up to the vicinity of the tilt tube connection, and terminate it in a black marelon 90 degree fitting, dumping the water down and out the back, on the starboard side of the engine. I think if everything is routed together this way, it makes for a cleaner, less noticeable, installation.

Chesapeake posted 04-11-2001 04:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Larry: Thanks. You are about 4 for 4 over the past week or so with "how to" ideas.

Next logical question: How are you at picking stocks?

Bob

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