repowering my Montauk: Merc vs. Yamaha vs. Nissan

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  repowering my Montauk: Merc vs. Yamaha vs. Nissan

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   repowering my Montauk: Merc vs. Yamaha vs. Nissan

Lanny posted 09-23-2000 04:26 AM ET (US)
I recently bought a 1980 montauk w/ 84' 90HP Merc. My experience with Mercs hasn't been great and I want to re-power next spring.I've been mulling over my options: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke. I live in California so the writing is on the wall (will we eventually be banned from using 2 strokes on all Ca lakes and rivers?) probably. although i use the boat mainly on our coast and in Baja for fishing and diving, I still would at some point use the boat on lakes and rivers for wakeboarding. i'd like at least 90HP on the new rig. My problem with 4 strokes is the weight. i don't know that the montauk would like to handle an engine of over 350lbs on the transom. Based on these thoughts, i've narrowed the field down to these outboard choices: 100 HP Yamaha- 4 (356lbs.) 90 Hp Merc-4(382lbs- a little on the heavy side) or a 2001 Nissan direct fuel injection 2 stroke 90HP (lighter than the others) that meets or exceeds 2006 EPA standards.I would appreciate any feedback on my upcoming purchase.My questions: are the new Mercury's 4 strokes as inexpensive and reliable as I've been hearing; ?Is merc cheaper than yamaha? how expensive is the 100HP Yamaha? finally, I'm wondering if anyone has any comments they can offer me regarding Nissan/ Tohatsu outboards? I've heard that they're pretty efficient and reliable.If anyone can give me some insight as to other outboard manufacturers, i would appreciate that as well. thanks
Dick E posted 09-23-2000 08:05 PM ET (US)
Merc 4-stroke has the powerhead made by Yamaha,the lower unit by Mecury. If you buy the Mercury you shouln't have to change cables,linkages etc.
The price of the Merc should be at least $1,000 cheaper plus savings on the cables.
I have heard these Merc have been running well.
Dealer sevice is another important factor in buying an outboard
Dick posted 09-25-2000 09:00 PM ET (US)
I have a 1999 Montauk with a Mercury 50hp 4 stroke. Have run it now for 15 months with absolutely no problems. Tirmmed out it will run 38 mph with a 13 pitch SS prop. If you need the extra horsepower I think the 90 Merc would be the way to go. Once you run a 4 stroke you will never own a 2 stroke again. I wouldn't be to concerned with weight, the Montauk seems to be able to handle anything you can hang back there.
Good Luck
Dick
triblet posted 09-26-2000 01:44 AM ET (US)
If it ain't broke, why fix it?
The Merc runs. When it dies, then repower.
At this point the Air Resource Board is
saying they aren't going to ban existing
carbureted two-strokes. Some lakes
may. Tahoe and a couple of others have
already, but I don't see a ground swell
to ban the existing motors. They didn't
do that for cars.
See http://arbis.arb.ca.gov/msprog/marine/faq.pdf
Chuck Tribolet
Lanny posted 09-26-2000 02:57 AM ET (US)
I would keep the Merc until it passed on if it were not for a few reasons...
a) I don't have a kicker and don't really wan't to add one.
b) I don't want the Merc to die on me while I'm 40 miles offshore chasing Dorado and Yellowtail near San Clemente Island in CA or La Guardia in Baja
c) I'm not mechanical enough to assess and make minor repairs while at sea
d)A new outboard would give me the added confidence to take the Montauk further offshore
e) less smoke, better fuel economy, no pre-guessing (mixing)
andygere posted 09-29-2000 09:00 PM ET (US)
I'd be a little nervous 40 miles offshore in my Montauk without a kicker. Even though a new motor will be very reliable, stuff can and does go wrong. For the sake of argument, I have a '79 Johnson 85 + 15 kicker hanging off the transom, and dual batteries mounted aft. The boat does not sit deep in the stern, and I would imagine this setup is heavier than a 90 hp four stroke.
RWM posted 09-29-2000 09:48 PM ET (US)
I'm looking at a Suzuki 70 4-stroke to repower my '77 Montaulk. It's 303 lbs, has EFI, a big alternator and a 3 year warranty. Take a look at some info from their web site below...the engine looks great, black with nice markings...anyone out there running one? I think I can have it on my boat for $6800...Bob M.

SOHC 8-VALVE IN-LINE 4 POWERHEAD based on Suzuki's 1.3L automotive engine, a proven performer. (70/60 HP)
LONG-TRACK INTAKE MANIFOLD made of special corrosion-resistant aluminum alloy increases the velocity of the fuel/air mix for more power and quieter operation. (70,60,50,40 HP)
SOLID STATE IGNITION SYSTEM provides twice as much power to the spark plug, allowing for cleaner, more complete combustion - and maximum power with every stroke. (70,60,50,40 HP)
SEQUENTIAL MULTI-POINT DIGITAL EFI delivers improved fuel economy and extended range on a single tank of fuel. Suzuki's exclusive EFI system continuously monitors engine conditions and delivers the precise fuel/air mix to each cylinder. The power curve was tuned to deliver smooth acceleration with quick throttle response. (70,60,50,40 HP)

HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATORS 21.5 amp on 70 and 60 HP and 18 amp on 50 and 40 HP, keep your electronics running, even during the hours of trolling.
COMPUTER DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM allows your dealer to troubleshoot quickly and reduce service time. (70,60,50,40 HP)
3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY is standard with every Suzuki outboard.
Lanny posted 09-30-2000 03:14 PM ET (US)
Well,
My outboard repair specialist says my 84' 90HP Merc needs the following repairs:
1) a new stater- related to coil charging?
2) has lower compression in cylinder 5
3) the engine mounts are loose
also, the steering arm must be a tad bit corroded cuz the steering is really stiff, even with a brand new teleflex helm.
i'm already in for about $700.00 in current repairs w/ out addressing the engine mount issue. I'm considering throwing in the towel and just buying the new outboard...probably within the next four months. I'm just tired of sinking $$$ into an aging motor well past its prime.
My question: when a dealer quotes you a price on a new outboard, how much leeway does a buyer have, if any, in negotiating that price down? How would I find out the bottomline wholesale price of any particular outboard manufacture?
Ed Stone posted 10-01-2000 08:53 PM ET (US)
Hey Lanny,
It's hard to say the price of a new outboard
Some one stated early that they had a 90hp
yam.mounted with controls for 5800.
That sounds like a great deal to me.
In 96 I had a 85 Yam. mounted with controlls
for 5000.If you had the same brand motor
installed it should save you some money.
Good Luck.
david in boston posted 10-02-2000 10:30 AM ET (US)
I bought a 70 hp tohatsu 2000 last spring and it has been great on my 72 montauk. plenty of power, always starts first try, runs smooth and very good on gas. I purchased the motor online at a great price. and had it delivered to my house. then brought the motor to a local boatyard for installation on my boat. it has a trim/tilt button on the engine itself which is great. oil mixing, full gages, binnacle mount controls. I have been told by numerous people that it will be very reliable and thrives on hard use. same as Nissan. send an e-mail if you want more info. David
Lanny posted 10-03-2000 05:49 PM ET (US)
Thanks David,
I'm waiting for the release of the 2001 Nissan / Tohatsu 90 HP direct injection model. I'm hoping that model will pass muster with the current EPA standards for California; otherwise I can't buy a 2 stroke in Ca. Sounds like you're very pleased with the Tohatsu. Where did you buy it online? send me an e-mail to : stallone999@hotmail.com
thanks
Lanny posted 10-03-2000 05:50 PM ET (US)
Any ideas on how I would mount a tower for water skiing and wakeboarding into the floor of my montauk. The tower needs to be approx. 5-6 feet tall and be able to withstand the force/ weight of the towed rider. In all liklihood, I'll have to drill a large area into the floor/hull to be able to have a sturdyt/reinforced tower.ONE IDEA I HAD WAS TO MOUNT a car rim to the floor and let the interior area of the rim support the tower and much of the force from the towing. Any thoughts?
TRIDENT posted 10-03-2000 06:12 PM ET (US)
Lanny-Any idea as to when the direct injection Tohatsu is coming out?
Also, you may be able to use the bilge area as a base for a 4"x4"x60" wooden post. You could support the top by bracing against the transom on each side. I think you will be screwing up if you try to mount something to the deck or drill through it, there is no good way to put a backing plate in the deck there because it is foam filled.
dgp posted 10-03-2000 06:50 PM ET (US)
Lanny, since your 90HP Merc is on the rocks and you want a ski tower, you could make a Ski / Tuna tower, mount that to the deck with your car wheels idea, rip out the console and put a 5 litre Mercruiser inboard in it's place and install the steering and engine controls in the tower. Way cool! Send Jim some photos of your completed project. Don
Lanny posted 10-04-2000 02:26 AM ET (US)
DGP,
That's a great idea!...Except for the fact that it'll cost about twice as much as the boat is currently worth and way outside my boat budget. The tower would be really cool though; and a 5.0 Mercruiser would push that boat at close to 75MPH. Faster than my land wheels! Thanks for tthe creative thoughts
Lanny posted 10-04-2000 02:28 AM ET (US)
Trident,
I've heard from a couple dealers that there is both a 50 hP and 90HP direct inject model for 2001. But it looks as if consumers won't have access to them until around Spring.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: repowering my Montauk: Merc vs. Yamaha vs. Nissan
Lanny	posted 09-23-2000 04:26 AM ET (US) I recently bought a 1980 montauk w/ 84' 90HP Merc. My experience with Mercs hasn't been great and I want to re-power next spring.I've been mulling over my options: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke. I live in California so the writing is on the wall (will we eventually be banned from using 2 strokes on all Ca lakes and rivers?) probably. although i use the boat mainly on our coast and in Baja for fishing and diving, I still would at some point use the boat on lakes and rivers for wakeboarding. i'd like at least 90HP on the new rig. My problem with 4 strokes is the weight. i don't know that the montauk would like to handle an engine of over 350lbs on the transom. Based on these thoughts, i've narrowed the field down to these outboard choices: 100 HP Yamaha- 4 (356lbs.) 90 Hp Merc-4(382lbs- a little on the heavy side) or a 2001 Nissan direct fuel injection 2 stroke 90HP (lighter than the others) that meets or exceeds 2006 EPA standards.I would appreciate any feedback on my upcoming purchase.My questions: are the new Mercury's 4 strokes as inexpensive and reliable as I've been hearing; ?Is merc cheaper than yamaha? how expensive is the 100HP Yamaha? finally, I'm wondering if anyone has any comments they can offer me regarding Nissan/ Tohatsu outboards? I've heard that they're pretty efficient and reliable.If anyone can give me some insight as to other outboard manufacturers, i would appreciate that as well. thanks
Dick E	posted 09-23-2000 08:05 PM ET (US) Merc 4-stroke has the powerhead made by Yamaha,the lower unit by Mecury. If you buy the Mercury you shouln't have to change cables,linkages etc. The price of the Merc should be at least $1,000 cheaper plus savings on the cables. I have heard these Merc have been running well. Dealer sevice is another important factor in buying an outboard
Dick	posted 09-25-2000 09:00 PM ET (US) I have a 1999 Montauk with a Mercury 50hp 4 stroke. Have run it now for 15 months with absolutely no problems. Tirmmed out it will run 38 mph with a 13 pitch SS prop. If you need the extra horsepower I think the 90 Merc would be the way to go. Once you run a 4 stroke you will never own a 2 stroke again. I wouldn't be to concerned with weight, the Montauk seems to be able to handle anything you can hang back there. Good Luck Dick
triblet	posted 09-26-2000 01:44 AM ET (US) If it ain't broke, why fix it? The Merc runs. When it dies, then repower. At this point the Air Resource Board is saying they aren't going to ban existing carbureted two-strokes. Some lakes may. Tahoe and a couple of others have already, but I don't see a ground swell to ban the existing motors. They didn't do that for cars. See http://arbis.arb.ca.gov/msprog/marine/faq.pdf Chuck Tribolet
Lanny	posted 09-26-2000 02:57 AM ET (US) I would keep the Merc until it passed on if it were not for a few reasons... a) I don't have a kicker and don't really wan't to add one. b) I don't want the Merc to die on me while I'm 40 miles offshore chasing Dorado and Yellowtail near San Clemente Island in CA or La Guardia in Baja c) I'm not mechanical enough to assess and make minor repairs while at sea d)A new outboard would give me the added confidence to take the Montauk further offshore e) less smoke, better fuel economy, no pre-guessing (mixing)
andygere	posted 09-29-2000 09:00 PM ET (US) I'd be a little nervous 40 miles offshore in my Montauk without a kicker. Even though a new motor will be very reliable, stuff can and does go wrong. For the sake of argument, I have a '79 Johnson 85 + 15 kicker hanging off the transom, and dual batteries mounted aft. The boat does not sit deep in the stern, and I would imagine this setup is heavier than a 90 hp four stroke.
RWM	posted 09-29-2000 09:48 PM ET (US) I'm looking at a Suzuki 70 4-stroke to repower my '77 Montaulk. It's 303 lbs, has EFI, a big alternator and a 3 year warranty. Take a look at some info from their web site below...the engine looks great, black with nice markings...anyone out there running one? I think I can have it on my boat for $6800...Bob M. SOHC 8-VALVE IN-LINE 4 POWERHEAD based on Suzuki's 1.3L automotive engine, a proven performer. (70/60 HP) LONG-TRACK INTAKE MANIFOLD made of special corrosion-resistant aluminum alloy increases the velocity of the fuel/air mix for more power and quieter operation. (70,60,50,40 HP) SOLID STATE IGNITION SYSTEM provides twice as much power to the spark plug, allowing for cleaner, more complete combustion - and maximum power with every stroke. (70,60,50,40 HP) SEQUENTIAL MULTI-POINT DIGITAL EFI delivers improved fuel economy and extended range on a single tank of fuel. Suzuki's exclusive EFI system continuously monitors engine conditions and delivers the precise fuel/air mix to each cylinder. The power curve was tuned to deliver smooth acceleration with quick throttle response. (70,60,50,40 HP) HIGH OUTPUT ALTERNATORS 21.5 amp on 70 and 60 HP and 18 amp on 50 and 40 HP, keep your electronics running, even during the hours of trolling. COMPUTER DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM allows your dealer to troubleshoot quickly and reduce service time. (70,60,50,40 HP) 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY is standard with every Suzuki outboard.
Lanny	posted 09-30-2000 03:14 PM ET (US) Well, My outboard repair specialist says my 84' 90HP Merc needs the following repairs: 1) a new stater- related to coil charging? 2) has lower compression in cylinder 5 3) the engine mounts are loose also, the steering arm must be a tad bit corroded cuz the steering is really stiff, even with a brand new teleflex helm. i'm already in for about $700.00 in current repairs w/ out addressing the engine mount issue. I'm considering throwing in the towel and just buying the new outboard...probably within the next four months. I'm just tired of sinking $$$ into an aging motor well past its prime. My question: when a dealer quotes you a price on a new outboard, how much leeway does a buyer have, if any, in negotiating that price down? How would I find out the bottomline wholesale price of any particular outboard manufacture?
Ed Stone	posted 10-01-2000 08:53 PM ET (US) Hey Lanny, It's hard to say the price of a new outboard Some one stated early that they had a 90hp yam.mounted with controls for 5800. That sounds like a great deal to me. In 96 I had a 85 Yam. mounted with controlls for 5000.If you had the same brand motor installed it should save you some money. Good Luck.
david in boston	posted 10-02-2000 10:30 AM ET (US) I bought a 70 hp tohatsu 2000 last spring and it has been great on my 72 montauk. plenty of power, always starts first try, runs smooth and very good on gas. I purchased the motor online at a great price. and had it delivered to my house. then brought the motor to a local boatyard for installation on my boat. it has a trim/tilt button on the engine itself which is great. oil mixing, full gages, binnacle mount controls. I have been told by numerous people that it will be very reliable and thrives on hard use. same as Nissan. send an e-mail if you want more info. David
Lanny	posted 10-03-2000 05:49 PM ET (US) Thanks David, I'm waiting for the release of the 2001 Nissan / Tohatsu 90 HP direct injection model. I'm hoping that model will pass muster with the current EPA standards for California; otherwise I can't buy a 2 stroke in Ca. Sounds like you're very pleased with the Tohatsu. Where did you buy it online? send me an e-mail to : stallone999@hotmail.com thanks
Lanny	posted 10-03-2000 05:50 PM ET (US) Any ideas on how I would mount a tower for water skiing and wakeboarding into the floor of my montauk. The tower needs to be approx. 5-6 feet tall and be able to withstand the force/ weight of the towed rider. In all liklihood, I'll have to drill a large area into the floor/hull to be able to have a sturdyt/reinforced tower.ONE IDEA I HAD WAS TO MOUNT a car rim to the floor and let the interior area of the rim support the tower and much of the force from the towing. Any thoughts?
TRIDENT	posted 10-03-2000 06:12 PM ET (US) Lanny-Any idea as to when the direct injection Tohatsu is coming out? Also, you may be able to use the bilge area as a base for a 4"x4"x60" wooden post. You could support the top by bracing against the transom on each side. I think you will be screwing up if you try to mount something to the deck or drill through it, there is no good way to put a backing plate in the deck there because it is foam filled.
dgp	posted 10-03-2000 06:50 PM ET (US) Lanny, since your 90HP Merc is on the rocks and you want a ski tower, you could make a Ski / Tuna tower, mount that to the deck with your car wheels idea, rip out the console and put a 5 litre Mercruiser inboard in it's place and install the steering and engine controls in the tower. Way cool! Send Jim some photos of your completed project. Don
Lanny	posted 10-04-2000 02:26 AM ET (US) DGP, That's a great idea!...Except for the fact that it'll cost about twice as much as the boat is currently worth and way outside my boat budget. The tower would be really cool though; and a 5.0 Mercruiser would push that boat at close to 75MPH. Faster than my land wheels! Thanks for tthe creative thoughts
Lanny	posted 10-04-2000 02:28 AM ET (US) Trident, I've heard from a couple dealers that there is both a 50 hP and 90HP direct inject model for 2001. But it looks as if consumers won't have access to them until around Spring.