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Author Topic:   Two-Stroke Oil
compounder posted 01-14-2001 10:09 AM ET (US)   Profile for compounder   Send Email to compounder  
This is a subject I have seen discussed intensively on other boards, but it frequently turns into a "Ford vs Chevy" type of p*ssing contest. I value the opinions of those who post here and would like to hear from you on what type & brand of oil you use, why you chose that particular product, and the results you have had with it. Although I may change to another product at some time in the future, I have started using Klotz 100% Synthetic in my outboards and all other two-stroke engines. I like the lack of smoke, the rather pleasant smell, and the reputation the oil has among racing enthusiasts. I do not like the relatively high price and lack of availability locally. A friend who runs Klotz in his 90 hp Mariner found that carbon deposits were extremely light in his combustion chambers when he replaced a head gasket. I hope this clean-burning will result in extended life for my outboard.
whalernut posted 01-14-2001 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
I use whatever is on sale, as long as it meets the specifications recommended by the manufacturer. Currently useing OMC brand, but have had good luck with Pennzoil, quicksilver, and every other on sale brand I have used as long as it met the specs! Regards-Jack Graner.
bigz posted 01-14-2001 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Your right Joe and you even participated in the last discussion on this subject under "General" with a small dissertation on your favorite synthetic Klotx (12/9/00) -- actually we did have another discussion on it way back either on this forum or the previous one --- So why bring it up again? Do you want to change?

If you re-call I didn't speak of any specific brand only an explanation what the organic oil TC-W3 specification meant and how that related to "OB branded" oil modified to their specs, and how various other major oil companies modify theirs--- for them to try and differentiate themselves in the market place ---

I don't see any need for one to use synthetic motor oil unless they feel they have a need to solve a problem ---

For our part we use Exxon SuperFlow by the gallons, (might add a lot of it in the twin 200hp Yamaha's) with no apparent problems --- we did have a little carbon build up when we had them tuned for the second time this year but that was contributed to 1200 miles of exercise coming up the ICW from FL (went through 2 cases of gallons on that trip plus a case of Citgo quarts when we ran out of the Exxon on the last leg) --- primary reason for Exxon good reputation for organic oil formulations and price ---

There yeah have our recommendation if you want to call it that --- probably any good quality organic TC-W3 oil would work though --- Tom

triblet posted 01-14-2001 12:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
If you like the OMC brand, you better go
stock up, it's disappearing. I've been
using, and can't find it through my usual
source, so I'm switching to Quicksilver for
a while at least.

Chuck

compounder posted 01-14-2001 02:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
Hey Tom, Yeah, I'm thinking of a possible change to another brand of synthetic---my nearby source for 30 gal drums has gone out of business. Buying in 1gal jugs will be considerably more expensive. I really wanted to get an idea of what others on this board are using, not get into another debate of the technical aspects of the products themselves. Maybe not a very original idea, but,hey, it's cold and wet here today!
Joe
bigz posted 01-14-2001 03:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Joe I hear you overcast, damp and cold here --- Actually Joe if you check around at some of the marinas -- outboard dealers in your area you'll find they carrying 50 gallon drums --- if a Merc dealer usually has the Quicksilver -- OMC guys etc etc or a good named brand oil company's --- bring your own container and fill up at a big savings ---

Then after you run a few gallons or so pull your plugs and check for deposits -- in general your engine will let you know if it's a happy camper --- tom

andygere posted 01-14-2001 03:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I had been using both Exxon and Penzoil, choosing whichever was on sale at West. Recently, two different outboard mechanics reccommended using OMC or Quicksilver, citing less carbon build-up. When asked about synthetic, they both said it's good stuff, but probably not worth the cost. I have been using OMC carbon preventer added to my fuel because I am concerned about carbon build up and ring damage on my old '79 Johnson. The Exxon oil did seem to produce a little more smoke, but it's always hard to tell if it's the oil or the mixing that's at fault.
dgp posted 01-14-2001 04:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
I agree with Jack, completely! When it comes to engine oil, either 2 stroke or 4 stroke, as long as it meets the manufacturers specifications, I use the cheapest. Caveat; while the engine's under warranty I use the engine manufacturer's brand. That way, if there is any major failure within the warranty period I have proof that I used the manufacturer's branded oil. CYA! Don
bigz posted 01-14-2001 04:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
We need another POLL --- what OB motor oil do folks use? ---

OB manufacture's brand
Synthetic Oil
Major Oil Co brand
No Name Oil (off a tail gate brand)
Store Brand -- Cabela's Overtons whatever --
Don't use oil Use Tooth Paste polishes the bores better ----

You get the picture --- a poll will settle the question on who's or what one should use --- Then we need a second poll to compliment the first poll --- "why do you use what you use?" --

Maybe a 3rd poll " what if what you use isn't available anymore then what would you use?" and of course a follow up 4th poll on the 3rd poll-- "why did you choose what you chose if what you had used wasn't available?"

Now from these 4 polls we can extrapolate a possible clear cut idea of what you should use --- that is unless it happens to be the afro mentioned tooth paste product then we probably will have to take 4 more polls to find out just exactly what your dentist and the ADA recommends to use --- brand -- quantity -- etc etc ---

Just the winter blahs humor --- chuckle don't take it serious --- JimH you may delete at your pleasure ---

BIG Z

whalernut posted 01-14-2001 06:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Great poll idea Bigz! It seems like the only oil my engine really didn`t like was the time I ran out of Marine 2-stroke motor oil and used Motorcycle 2-stroke oil(Pennzoil). It seemed too smoke more and idle rougher, don`t know why? Anyway, Bigz you keep mentioning TC-W3 oil grade, and my motor(75`) grew up on TC-W2 oil grade, still what I use. Question, what is the difference, why is the former more expensive, and will my engine run with TC-W3 oil grade and is it better than TC-W2? Regards-Jack Graner.
Dick E posted 01-14-2001 06:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick E  Send Email to Dick E     
I have a Merc and I use Merc oil.
I use about six gallons per year. To me that's about $40 bucks/year more then if I bought Wally World.

I am confident that Merc oil is equal or better then Wally World oil, but I am not confident that Wally World is equal or better then Merc oil.

$40 is less then 1% of what I spend on boating. To me it's not worth the risk.

Mark Gallagher posted 01-14-2001 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mark Gallagher  Send Email to Mark Gallagher     
I have used OMC oil from day one in my Johnson. It costs a little more but it gives me piece on mind. I also use carbon guard. All us OMC owners need a little piece of mind now. Chuck, excellent point about availablility of OMC oil. It never entered my mind that with all OMC's hardship parts ,supplies, etc may be running low. I use the gallon jugs and plan to get a case or two tomorrow....you've got me concerned now. I buy from a local marine store that has a good price, less than most. They have two websites and even offer bulk oil for OMC, Pennzoil, Merc, ect. www.outboardoil.com or easternmarine.com Only 5 miles away for me but they ship UPS..may be a good source for some of you.Take care Mark
triblet posted 01-14-2001 09:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Whalernut, I'm amazed you can still find
TC-W2 oil. I've never seen any.

Chuck

jimh posted 01-15-2001 01:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
One thing that surprised me: while up on Lake Superior (Wisconsin end) all we could buy was Phillips-66 brand oil. Couldn't find a boutique ouotboard brand anywhere!

When OMC filed for Chapter 11, one of their biggest creditors was Ashland Refining. Wonder who was making OMC's oil....

I confess to using Mercury oil in my Merc, and, yes, I bought some Yamaha oil for my yammies.

I even buy it by the pint so I can easily pre-mix it in 6-gallon tanks for the 50-HP Merc.

The yammies are oil-injection so I buy it by the gallon for them.

--jimh

bigz posted 01-15-2001 07:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Jack in a simple answer your fine with TC-W2, W3 is the replacement either will work

Now for a more complete answer (I have a good source on oil formualtion and testing information). The basic blend of base oils and ashless detergent additives developed to meet or exceed the NMMA/BIA Designation TC-W3 is about the same for all oil manufactures. In simole words when the batches are produced they at that point meet the spec. then it gets a little fuzzie what happens if it is bottled for an OEM brand, a discount store brand or the oil companies own brand with the additive packages.

The primary goal with the 3rd generation of 2 stroke outboard oils was designed to reduce the growing problems of deposits which cause piston ring sticking and piston varnish, piston scuffing, bearing wear, exhaust port carbon deposits, plug fouling, pre-ignition, and rusting. Another part of the goal with this specification was to formulate to protect all 2-cycle outboards from the adverse affects of common, low grade "pipeline" gasoline. The continued use of these low quality fuels can add to the build up of piston deposits which interfere with the free ring and piston movement in each cylinder, increasing ring wear and degradation which eventually may cause engine failure.

Added to this basic package individual outboard manufactures will work with the oil companies supplying their "branded" oil to add additional additives to control what their engineers deem important for their specific motors ---

The bottom line is that all major oil companies produce a TC-W3 product that basically should work fine in any motor ---

Keep in mind though the OMC, Mercury and Yamaha, just to name the majors brand oils all have additional additive packages blended in --- now whether this is actually necessary or just a marketing ploy who knows for sure --- (as JimH states boutique oils)one thing is certain using a quality TC-W3 oil from any manufacture doesn't void your warranty --- humm maybe that says something ---- Hope this helps explain it Jack --

Tom

whalernut posted 01-15-2001 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Tom, thanks for the info, I can use either one and it will be o.k. Also Chuck, sometimes my best deals are on old stock TC-W2 oil I come accross for very good prices at various places. Most of the time about .99 cents a quart, I think thats a great price? Regards-Jack Graner.
blackdog posted 01-15-2001 06:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Any difference between the OMC TC-W3 and Evinrude FICHT RAM Injection Oil ?
Peter posted 01-15-2001 07:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
There may be a real difference between TCW-3 and the Ram injection oil because the oiling system appears to be quite different on the Fichts.
Dan posted 01-15-2001 07:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Dick E, Where can y'all get that Wally World oil? I'd love to get me some.
Mark Gallagher posted 01-15-2001 09:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mark Gallagher  Send Email to Mark Gallagher     
In regards to the FICHT RAM oil question...
I think RAM is the newest FICHT system and while I was picking up a case of Johnson oil today I just happened to see a few gallons on the shelf. It specifically states RAM FICHT on label. Price......19.95 a gallon WOW! It also said 100 % synthetic so that probably explains some of the high cost.
blackdog posted 01-16-2001 09:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thanks Mark,
A couple of people had told me to use the Ficht Oil. It will run cleaner and it is a good idea during the warranty period if I still have one!

Blackdog

Ed Stone posted 01-17-2001 08:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
With the prices of some of these outboards
nowadays I would think using the manufactorys
suggested oil would be a wise decision.

I'm suprised at the small amount of oil
being used by the opti max motors on my
Whaler.With the smart gauges it shows the
amount of oil in each tank.I believe each
tank holds 3.5 gals.I've got close to 30hrs
on each motor and still over 2 gals. in
both tanks.
Ed Stone

blackdog posted 01-18-2001 05:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Ed,
Nice to have gauges. I have a warning light and I think the tank holds about 3 gallons or so. The Ficth also was real good on oil consumption. I ran about 25 to 30 hours and the tank is not quiet empty. I just stocked up on the oil from the place Mark G recommended. I think I got the last 5 gallons on the self. $19 a gallon x 5 ouch!

Blackdog

lhg posted 01-18-2001 07:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I think the reference to Wally World is probably Walmart, where they sell their own label NMMA approved TCW-3 oil for $7/gallon. In spite of the grief I get from other Whaler guys, I use this stuff. It looks exactly the same color as the Merc oil. I have also used the Texaco brand oil from K-mart, at $6/gallon. This is a darker color, and I don't like it as well. While filled with Walmart oil, a Merc mechanic happened to look at my oil tanks and said "I see you're using the Merc oil!"

At the recommendation of one of the best Merc mechanics I know, I also add a Mercury carbon remover, called "Quick Clean", to the gas on a regular basis. This yellowish liquid really keeps your combustion chambers clean.
Highly recommended for any brand engine. I think Yamaha has their version of the product also.

I suspect that the real difference in some of the engine brand oils is a greater level of additives such as Quick Clean.

DIVE 1 posted 01-18-2001 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Larry,
I am glad you spoke up first for the Wal-Mart TCW-3 oil. A local refinery conducted some testing on TCW-3 outboard oils a few years ago and their conclusion(without the brand names identified to them) was the Wal-Mart oil. Their testing indicated that it had the best lubrication qualities with the least amount of carbon build up. With all of the oils tested, they indicated that all brands provided less carbon build-up and smoke with additional additives like Carbon-Free. Their final recommendation(tap dance time) was to try different brands of TCW-3 oil in your engine and use the one that you feel gives the best performance with minimal smoke and carbon build-up. Their final conclusion was that all TCW-3 oils met the minimal requirements for outboard motor use.

We use a lot of oil in the low-compression commercial engines on DIVE 1, we tried everything. We went back to Wal-Mart because all oils repel mosquitos and at $7.00 a gallon, the engines are fine and we get no mosquito bites.
Jim

Bullbay posted 01-20-2001 10:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bullbay  Send Email to Bullbay     
What will be a good replacement for the Evinrude ficht oil when it becomes unavailable? My 2000 90hp uses very little oil and gas (I don't want to post my figures because no one will believe it)and I don't even know what smoke looks like.
whalernut posted 01-20-2001 11:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Bullbay, it was mentioned that the Ficht 2-stroke oil was synthetic, so it would seem that a good synthetic oil of another brand would/should suffice? Is Ficht 2-stroke oil the best or just an OMC way of useing it only in you`re Ficht engine for more profit? regards-Jack Graner.
blackdog posted 01-21-2001 06:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I think the Ficht oil is a Blend?
bdb posted 01-22-2001 08:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for bdb  Send Email to bdb     
Has anyone tried Cabela's semi-synthetic "smoke free" oil?
Bullbay posted 01-22-2001 09:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bullbay  Send Email to Bullbay     
The Evinrude Ficht Ram Injection oil is a synthetic blend oil with CarbX. "It is forumulated expressly for today's high performance two-stroke direct inject outboards. It is blended for maximum lubrication in a direct inject system that delivers a fuel oil mixture up to 100 times per second". "With Carb X carbon molecules are kept in suspension and pulled away from the combustion area." Exceeds TW-W and TC-W3 NNMA specifications. My dealer has over a years supply and I bought two more bulk gallons today for $15.99 vs pre pack of $16.99 per gallon. He said other synthetic oils would work but they don't have Carb X feature. I plan to use nothing but this oil in my 2000 90hp for as long as it is available, and this does not appear to be a problem as the dealer indicated that he can still get it.
bigz posted 04-17-2001 12:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Brought this back to life so we have more oily input to this very interesting discussion ---

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