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Author Topic:   hydraulic steering
ffk posted 03-28-2001 08:54 PM ET (US)   Profile for ffk   Send Email to ffk  
I would appreciate thoughts on hydraulic steering update for a '72 Outrage with twin Yamaha 90 hp engines. Is there anything in particular that I should be aware of? I have spoken with both Teleflex and Hynautic, both having similar suggestions regarding single, front mounted cylinder installed on the starboard engine. Neither will admit to having any knowledge regarding older Whalers. Thanks for the help.
Frank
reelescape1 posted 03-28-2001 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
Make sure when one engine comes all the way out of the water that the steering doesn't bind.You may have to run back on one engine one day!!
Tom Byrum posted 03-28-2001 11:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
I just put Teleflex Sea Star on my Outrage with twins. Worth every penny. I now steer with one finger instead of constantly fighting the torque of the twins. Make sure the brand you choose is compatible with an autopilot if that is in your future as I was told some brands were not. You will love it.
lhg posted 03-29-2001 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
ffk: I did a great deal of research on the identical problem, when I converted my twin engine 18 Outrage to Hydraulic a few years ago. As Tom says, you will love it and wonder why it took you so long! Please see Jimh's reference section article on Engine Bracket, not for the bracket issue, but for the hydraulic steering photos and discussion.

Condensed, I recommend:

1. Teleflex brand, since it is by far the most commonly used, with readily available parts. This is also BW's OEM. You will need their conversion helm plate to mount the helm pump in the old, larger, mechanical steerer hole.

2. In spite of what you have heard, use their SIDE mount cylinder with a twin engine installation. This is THE most efficient in terms of cost ($100 less than the front mount cylinder), and makes for a MUCH cleaner and better looking installation, especially for the tie bar. No fancy adaptors required. It installs very neatly BETWEEN the engines, assuming you have the minimum 26" engine centers, and is nearly invisible. (see photos)

3. The side mount cylinder (mounts in the tilt tube) operates with LESS steering effort than the front mount, and can be installed to counter steering torque if you reverse the tilt tube in the starboard engine. Highly recommended. Not necessary to do this, but it does help. With CR engines, not necessary at all, and the side mount cylinder would mount in the port engine.

I have recently noticed that Mako is rigging their boats, with dual CR Mercurys, this way.

For a single engine, although this cylinder can also be used, it is not recommended, as it looks awkward and transom clearance may be a problem.

ffk posted 04-24-2001 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for ffk  Send Email to ffk     
Thanks you for the replies, sorry for not getting back sooner. I have installed a Teleflex rear mount helm so far. I am trying to sort out the details of the side mount cylinder as suggested. Unfortunatly I do not have the 26" between engine centers required, but would appreciate any addl. info. I think I'll just get out the catalogs and stare at the diagrams for awhile.
Thanks again for the advise.

Frank

Anchor7 posted 04-24-2001 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Anchor7  Send Email to Anchor7     
According to Teleflex, the only downside to the sidemount cylinder is that you wont be able to use it with a hydraulic type autopilot (most AP's are hydraulic). If you never plan to add one then it doesn't matter. Since I wanted to leave the option for an autopilot open, I chose a front mount Teleflex system, which I am very happy with.
Dick posted 04-24-2001 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
Frank

If you have a FAX number let me know. I have the Teleflex tech reference book and can fax you the pertinant pages.

Dick

lhg posted 04-24-2001 09:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Without the 26" engine centerline minimum, you won't be able to install a side mount cylinder between the engines. You will have to use a Front Mount system. Since 26" centers is the minimum recommended, you may have trouble fitting the stock Teleflex tie bar recommended for the new Front Mount design.
jimh posted 04-24-2001 09:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Frank,

You will want to read http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html#hydraulic regarding hydraulic steering with twin engines.

Larry's installation technique is now being rigged on quite a few twin engine boats.

One advantage to using this style (side mounted hydraulic actuator) is that the hydraulic cables do not move; they stay fixed while the actuator arm moves.

In the other style, the hydraulic actuator moves back and forth with the engine and the hydraulic cables drag around with it.

--jimh

ffk posted 05-02-2001 09:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for ffk  Send Email to ffk     
Spoke with a technician at Teleflex last week. His thought was to use a cylinder mounted in the same location as the original cable was mounted. That actuator rod could be connected to the tie bar between the engines. The parts to actually install the cylinder to the boat are available from Teleflex. I am expecting a diagram and parts breakdown from him any day now. When I described the splashwell configuration to him, he seemed to understand and actually remember the layout of the early boats. Fact or fiction still remains to be seen. I'll keep you posted and welcome all comments

Thanks alot, Frank

Dick posted 05-02-2001 09:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
ffk
I Teleflex doesn't come through Give me a fax number and I will send you the diagrams.
Dick
lhg posted 05-02-2001 10:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Sounds like he's talking about a Splashwell mounted cylinder, a variation of the side mount (on tilt tube) cylinder.

Many have forgotten that the early 16's, up to about 1973, were shipped with Mechanical steering mounted this way, directly to the transom instead of the engine. Mercury invented the tilt tube mounting of mechanical steering (called their "Ride-Guide" system) and must have held a patent on it. So if you didn't have a Merc, you had to have splashwell mounted steering.

Dick posted 05-02-2001 10:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
You are correct Mercury was the first to have tilt tube steering. The Ride Guide system was, and still is, manufactured by American Chain Company (ACCO). Not sure wich one of them was the designer. The ACCO systems used to be available from aftermarket suppliers, I was one, now the system and replacement cables are only available from Mercury.

Teleflex does still offer the Hydraulic side mount system in both tilt tube and splashwell mount.

Dick

ffk posted 05-03-2001 11:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for ffk  Send Email to ffk     
You guys are good. The original system was indeed Acco cable mounted through the starboard side of the splashwell. What do you think of the idea of mounting the cylinder as the old system was installed? I will not have any difficulty if fabricating the necessary additional parts. Would it be better to install the cylinder in the port side to offset the prop steer effect with the twin 90s?
Frank
lhg posted 05-04-2001 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
In looking at the pictures of the Ribbed sided model, I realized the transom well space is quite tight. They opened this up quite a bit when they redesigned the ribs out in '73.

Be sure the splashwell mount cylinder will fit, and accomodate engine tilt. But if so, I would mount it on the port side to counter the torque from the twin props. Looks like you're read JimH's bracket/steering article.

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