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Author Topic:   Planning Speed for Whaler hulls
jimh posted 05-30-2001 09:01 AM ET (US)   Profile for jimh   Send Email to jimh  
What is the minimum speed your Whaler hull will maintain on plane?

My observations:

15-Sport = 20 MPH
20-Revenge = [can't find the precise number, but it is also around 20-22 MPH]

I used to think I was limited by my engine power, that the engines did not have enough power at certain throttle settings to hold the boat on plane at the lower speeds, but I discovered that even with plenty of horsepower on the transom (400 HP), the Whaler hull (in that case lhg's 25 Outrage) seemed to have a tendency to need to go about 20-22 MPH to maintain plane.

Any other observations?

Louie Kokinis posted 05-30-2001 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Tabs down, I'm sure mine is in the low teens. I will confirm this weekend.

Louie

Peter posted 05-30-2001 12:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I recall that my former 18 Outrage would maintain a plane down to about 13 mph.
Dan posted 05-30-2001 01:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
My Outrage 17 1999 needs about 20mph to stay on plane -- I accelerate to around 28 and back down to 24 or so to stay comfortably on plane. I can go down to 18 and very barely remain on plane. At 24-26 mph I'm around 3500 rpm. I heard that Maritime Skifs are designed to plane at 12mph. I'm thinking of switching to a 4 or 5 blade stainless prop, which is supposed to get plane quicker and hopefully hold at lower mph.
lhg posted 05-30-2001 02:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I have discovered that, besides hull design (such as deep vee's require more speed to plane), the amount of weight in the stern, such as from engines, can effect minimum planing speed on a Whaler. Both of my Whalers are a little stern heavy from higher horsepower dual engines, and accordingly, have higher planing speeds. Transom setback brackets can also increase minimum planing speeds, as even more weight is pushed back.

Trim tabs and Doel fins, with can provide additional stern lift, a result of additional drag at slower speeds, can definitely decrease minimum planing speeds, one of their best applications if that is desired.

Finally, propeller design makes a difference. Mercury advertises that 4 bladed props decrease minimum planing speed. Prop venting, and the resulting intentional slippage, increases acceleration, but also increases minimum planing speed because of the slippage.

I have recently experimented with using Mercury's Laser prop vent slot plugs, and discovered that the boat will plane at lower speed, and lower RPM's. With these, the 25 Outrage will plane at about 18mph, otherwise it is the 20mph Jimh stated above. My 18 Outrage planes at about the same speed.

triblet posted 05-30-2001 02:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
My Montauk is kinda sorta plaing at 14 knots
and fully on plane at 17. This is with two
people, full tank, and 300 pounds of dive
gear.

It's hard to go any speed between 14 and 17
knots. It either wants to accelerate fully
onto plane, or slow down to flully off plane.
Clearly it take less power at 17 than
at 15.

Chuck

RHLOOS posted 05-30-2001 06:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for RHLOOS  Send Email to RHLOOS     
Dan, How long have you owned your 17' Outrage? I was in the market for an 17' Whaler and was thinking Montauk. Now my thoughts are purchasing an Outrage. Have found two in Michigan, and will be looking at them this weekend. How do you like yours? Have you ever rode or owned a Montauk? Please, any information would be helpful.

Rob

Dan posted 05-30-2001 07:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Hi Rob, I owned a Montauk previously and loved it. I also love my 17 Outrage 1999 -- around 1991 the 17 was much different. I like the extra storage, internal 56 gal gas tank, creature comforts and softer ride of the Outrage. On the Montauk, I liked the beauty of the teak, lighter hull weight, squarish bow, and classic beauty of the design. I think I'd like a bigger boat -- something in the 24-26 ft range 7 with a head. Anyway, I'm just thrilled to own a Whaler -- any Whaler.
Tom W Clark posted 05-30-2001 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
My Outrage 18 would plane @ 16 mph (according to speedo) with V-6 motor, kicker motor and dual batteries. This lower speed came in handy when the water got really rough.

jimh, I'm surprised by the 20 mph figure for your 15. Perhaps it's because you don't have power trim on that '76. If you did you would find that the boat would maintain plane at a much lower speed if trimmed all the way in. It's much like lowering the flaps on an aircraft in slow flight. As an experiment, you could try dropping the tilt pin in the motor's mounting bracket to its lowest hole, run the boat and observe the results.

Louie Kokinis posted 06-04-2001 01:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Tabs and motor down 13, Tabs down / motor trimmed 15.


Louie

Peter posted 06-04-2001 04:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
1986 Revenge 22 WT, 225OX EFI SS Yamaha turning 17" 3 blade saltwater series stainless prop, flying top enclosure erected with center front windscreen panel rolled open and rear door panel rolled open, two batteries, oil (full) and trim tab hydraullic reservoir at stern, tabs up, engine trim in, 7/8 full fuel tank, two adults and two small kids at pedestal seats, into 10 mph head wind ~ holds plane at about 14 - 15 mph at 2100-2200 rpm. It is a little tough to determine whether it might stay on a plane a little lower because Yamaha's EFI system drops from 6 to 4 cylinders below 1900-2000 rpm, which coincidentally is right around the planing threshold. The jump from 4 to 6 cylinders at this rpm range threshold actually throws the boat up on a plane. I still can't get used to this function and am always looking back at the engine when it drops down through that threshold because it sounds just like running a six with two fouled up plugs.
DIVE 1 posted 06-04-2001 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Tabs and engines down, 4 people, 120 gals. fuel - 12MPH at 2,500 RPMs
llewellyn posted 06-05-2001 10:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for llewellyn  Send Email to llewellyn     
Rob, I'm looking, as you are, for a 17 having sold my 13. What do you think of the two Outrages you saw? I've had 2 Montauks and really liked them; think maybe the 17'3" Outrage will give a little better ride offshore and still fit in garage. Also, the 17' 3" weighs about 100lbs more than Montauk.
The 17' 6" about 650lbs more...hmmm. I'll be very interested to know what you decide? Thanks, Lew
jimh posted 06-05-2001 09:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Tom--

You are right about the lack of power trim on my old '76 Merc. That may account for the large gap in speeds between off-plane and on-plane. That boat either goes about 7 MPH or 20 MPH.

BrianC posted 06-14-2001 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for BrianC  Send Email to BrianC     
15 ft. GLS 70 Johnson. According to Eagle depthfinder, 18-20 mph. After installing Doelfin(sp?) planing speed was down to 14 mph w/2 people plus fishing gear and 12 gal. of gas. Doelfin also hacked about 5 mph off
my top speed.
andygere posted 06-14-2001 05:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
My Montauk with '79 85 hp, 13.25 x 17 alum. prop, kicker, dual stern-mounted batteries, aluminum Whale Tale, planes at 14-15 mph depending on conditions and load. I'm pretty pleased with that.
OutrageMan posted 06-15-2001 07:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for OutrageMan  Send Email to OutrageMan     
I can get my 91' 22" WD Outrage with 70 gal fuel, me (220 lb), big t-top, and a 91 Yamaha 250 on a plane at about 19 mph (GPS). I do have the Stingray Hydrofoil on the engine.
Erik posted 06-15-2001 09:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Erik    
I have heard Carolina Skiffs are the fastest fiberglass boats to get on plane...faster than whaler? Probably cause of the flat bottom...looks like a whaler from the side though.
bc posted 06-15-2001 09:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for bc    
From my experience the flat bottom gets up on plan fast and with a lot of weight in the boat. I own a 16' sundance skiff (very similar to the carolina) with a 25hp merc that I use for my fishing boat. I would guess the hull is planing by 10mph. Drafts between 4 - 6 inches. On my 15'sport, I haven't had it out enough to tell (70hp John)
RFK posted 06-16-2001 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for RFK  Send Email to RFK     
Jim,
According to my speedo, I am getting up on plane at 15mph. I can maintain it at between 17-19. That is a 16SL, with modified V hull. I am pushing it with a Yamaha 90 and a 15X131/4 prop. It is the same with 2 or 4 people. I do not have a doel fin on the boat.

Dick K.

hauptjm posted 06-18-2001 12:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
'85 18OR with bracket & 150 Johnson OR, full tank, wife and 2 yr. old: 12.5 kts. GPS'd.
whale123 posted 06-18-2001 05:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for whale123  Send Email to whale123     
1987 whaler 17 montauk with 70 evinrude "mix oil" cruise around 18 mph all day get about 7 mpg......cant beat that.... o ya did i say it can also run in about 1 foot and half of water pulling a water skiier...sweet boat for fishin shiiing cruising!
Bigshot posted 06-19-2001 09:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Just because you are planing at low speed does not mean you are getting the best MPG. Most O/B's get optimum MPG around 3500 rpm's. Some get the same from 3-4000. You might burn more GPH but you get there faster. Cabish? Get a Boating amgazine and check it out. I drive by sweet spot and my 90 Yam likes 3500-3700 @ around 28mph and burns maybe 4gph. As far as planing I know I can keep her on at 2500 or maybe less which is sick. My Carolina Shitt (14 w/30 Yam) is a bit stern heavy but will plane at about 10-12 but my cruise is around 19-21 mph and top end is 28-29. Carolinas due to there flat bottom have max hull speeds, kind of like a displacement. My bud with a 16 and a 25 is faster cause his boat is longer. My boat would probably be just as fast as it is with a 20 on it. Don't ask me how it works but it does, very weird boats.
vermilionwhalers posted 09-04-2001 04:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for vermilionwhalers  Send Email to vermilionwhalers     
Too bad this thread was called "Planning speed" but a search for the word "plan" (plane, planing, planes, etc) found it!

I was monkeying around this weekend with our 15', 60 hp, 13x19 prop and had triblet's problem: seemed not to go at in-between speeds. Was kind of rough and I wanted to plane at a little lower speed. Planed @ about 18-20 mph; back off a little and it went off plane and slowed considerably. Very touchy!

Put spare battery and tank in front of the console, but still had two persons in back, and with battery, tank, and oil tank in back, do I need more weight in front? Or maybe get a Doelfin?

The other problem I didn't see noted here is that, when the boat did plane, bow would be down a little more than I wanted in rough seas. Trimming up the engine lifted bow but lost the plane again. Again, seemed very touchy. When it was on plane, I never took water over the bow. Do I just need to get used to the bow being down a bit? Maybe get used to going faster w/a Whaler ??!!

Any other 15' Whalers with similar experiences?

TIA

Clark Roberts posted 09-05-2001 06:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Vermillion, if this is a recent thing (same engine, prop etc) and it would hold mid-range planning speeds before then you may have a power problem... Your engine may be simply "out of tune" or the rings may be worn out! Just a thought! Check it out.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
smo posted 09-05-2001 10:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for smo  Send Email to smo     
For a Conquest 23 with Hardtop and twin Opti 135s, minimum is 18mph at 2700 RPM. But, things are much nicer at 3000 rpm and 21mph. That is with engines tucked in, tabs 75% down, and full fuel.
BillS
vermilionwhalers posted 09-05-2001 12:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for vermilionwhalers  Send Email to vermilionwhalers     
Clark:

Thanks for the advice. This is not a recent thing, I don't think. We just got the boat about a month ago and it's just the way it was. I'm guessing I'm just not used to the way Whalers perform. Engine seems very smooth and WOT goes about 35 mph. Had to trim up quite a bit to get that speed. I will keep experimenting! It's way too fun not to!

jameso posted 09-10-2001 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for jameso  Send Email to jameso     
15 sport with 50 OMC tried every setting, need high teens or 20 to plane, top speed 38 on a good day, this is the price you pay for a deep center sponson. The Montauks do seem to plane a few MPH slower probably due to their flatter bottoms. This goes back to Clarks formula of length vs speed ect. we are dealing with lift as a result of speed vs weight not the size of your engine or your prop configuration,,,you might gain a MPH or so with a carefully tweeked prop but performance will suffer elsewhere.
Jim Armstrong
Bigshot posted 09-10-2001 05:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Jim the reason Montauks plane slower is weight distribution. On a deserted, calm waterway, sit on the front seat(centered) and steer with your right arm. I bet you will be amazed ar=t how slow you can go with that extra weight 2-3' forward.

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