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  Honda 50 vs Yamaha 50

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Author Topic:   Honda 50 vs Yamaha 50
Toad2001 posted 06-04-2001 01:24 AM ET (US)   Profile for Toad2001   Send Email to Toad2001  
I want to repower my 1989 15'GLS.
Mostly to increase range, as I like to cruise great distances from where refuelling is possible.
It currently has a 1990 4 cyl 40 hp 2 stroke Mariner (Merc) with PT. Firstly, any idea what it weighs? Also, can I expect comparable or better performance (top speed) with a 4 stroke 50hp?
Although I haven't priced them yet, I notice the Yamaha is about 233lbs, and the Honda about 198. Which is better? I guess my decision will come down to price (and your opinions). If my Mariner is close in weight to either 4 stroke,I wont be hung up on an extra 30lbs if I can save some dough.
Opinions please.
Boat will be used in salt water. Mostly for cruising around at 25mph exploring etc.
joeha posted 06-04-2001 05:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for joeha  Send Email to joeha     
Don't rule out Suzuki they weigh in at 243 lbs. and have EFI. This not a endorsement, I just happen to have the brochure laying next to the computer.
Whaletosh posted 06-04-2001 08:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
I had a 1995 Mercury 40 HP Magnum, essentilly the same engine as your Mariner. Weight was stated to be 187 Lbs.

Sean

jimh posted 06-04-2001 08:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Horsepower is horsepower, so the 50 HP boat should go faster than the 40 HP boat, unless the weight increase soaks up all the extra power.

I'd think about the engine in terms of dealer support, too.

If anyone has a good source of weights for older Mercury/Mariner engines, please let me know. I have the big, thick factory shop manual for my old Merc, and it lists everything about it except the weight!

lhg posted 06-04-2001 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Jimh - my catalog shows your Merc 50 at 176 lbs, short shaft version, so the long shaft would be about 5 lbs more.
whalernut posted 06-04-2001 04:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
The `15 GLS is rated for 70h.p. Max. For reference the Johnson/Rude. 70h.p. motor with power tilt/trim weighs 250lbs. so I believe you are good to about that much weight? The Suzuki was the best overall performer in the 115h.p. 4-stroke class. Remember the Evinrude 4-strokes are Zuzuki`s inside! Regards-Jack Graner.
Toad2001 posted 06-04-2001 08:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Toad2001  Send Email to Toad2001     
Thanks to all responses so far.
After researching fuel consumption and pricing, I'm gonna leave the 2 stoke on for a while longer. My Honda dealer says it will use 1/2 the fuel, the Merc dealer says it will use 20% less. Regardless even if I reduce fuel use by 50%, and gas is $2.25/gallon I will be better off lugging extra fuel when I need it to get extra range. A new motor will cost me about $3500 plus set up, and my perfectly good 2 stroke is only worth $1000. I figure I'm better to save the $2500 diff until the old Mariner dies.
Range, noise, smooth idle, reliability etc aside, it will take 739 hours to save $2500 in fuel. Thats a long time.
-assuming 3.0GPH/2stroke instead of 1.5GPH/4stroke,
-$6.75/hour(2 stroke) to run as opposed to $3.38 (4 stroke)
-divided by $2500 present cost to upgrade.
-i didn't factor 2 stroke oil usage, but bought in bulk its pretty cheap/hour

I dont want to play down the pollution factor, but being on the ocean its not as much a factor as an inland lake.

Note: I converted everything from Canadian$ to US$, and metric to imperial for this post. I hope my calcs are accurate.

Hoop posted 06-04-2001 11:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoop  Send Email to Hoop     
I had a Honda 50 on my Dauntless 15, now sold. Great engine, and it requires regular tune-ups, probably more so than newer technology engines. It has 3 conventional carburetors, one for each cylinder. The carburetors need to be timed together for them to run efficiently. The dealer I bought it from apparently wasn't aware of the timing requirement. It sputtered and sometimes died at idle. A different mechanic said, "Ah! Carburetors haven't been touched" when he saw that factory paint marks on carburetor adjustment screws weren't changed. He made it run like a top.
Hoop
llewellyn posted 06-05-2001 10:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for llewellyn  Send Email to llewellyn     
Only Honda dealer in my area sucks,period. The 4 stroke Yamaha have 3 year warranties,and there are at least 4 service locations nearby. You might consider the number of carbs, if you go that way. Seems like less is best. Good luck.
MAC 2 posted 06-05-2001 04:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for MAC 2  Send Email to MAC 2     
Just re-powered my 15' supersport with a Mercury 60, 2 stroke, with the same logic as yourself fuel saving costs take a long time to make the purchase worhwhile for a Mercury 60HP 4 stroke.

Out of interest Mercury have just reduced their 60 & 75 HP 2 strokes by 800 in the UK, new 60 fitted 2,800.

where2 posted 06-07-2001 02:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
One note from my perspective. My father just repowered his houseboat with a 50 Yamaha 4 stroke, and received a 6 year warranty. Standard factory 3 year, plus an additional 3 year extension (Yamaha Extended Service)for ordering at the local boat show. Makes that $10 admission to the boat show worth every cent!
whalerfreak45 posted 06-09-2001 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerfreak45  Send Email to whalerfreak45     
i definetly think the honda is better. i own a 40 honda which is basiclly the same as the fifty and it outperforms anything on the water.
Bigshot posted 06-15-2001 04:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
If you can get a 50 4stroke for $3500 buy it. I just priced a 2000 60hp Suzuki 4 at a great price of $4400(list 6200). A 50hp Tohatsu on sale for $2800. I personally had a 70 Johnson on mine and it ran like a scalded dog(46+ on the GPS). I bet you should do around 40 with the 50.
jimh posted 06-20-2001 08:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I just noticed that the 40-HP Mariner (Merc) 2-stroke is a 4-cylinder. I bet that is a smooth running engine. The small 4-cylinder Merc block has been around for a long time and seems to be a very well designed engine. It may take a while for you to wear it out.
Whaletosh posted 06-20-2001 11:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Mercury produced 2 40 HP 2-stroke motors at the time that I had mine. One was twin, the other was the Magnum like mine. The Magnum was the 4 cylinder motor, and yes it was very smooth. Plus Mercury made them for long time so parts should be fairly easy to get for a number of years.
Toad2001 posted 06-20-2001 01:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Toad2001  Send Email to Toad2001     
Yes its a 4 cylinder. Seems smooth enough.
My Mariner is also called a Magnum.
Whaletosh, have you done any calculations for your fuel usage/hour, or most efficient cruising RPM?
Are these engines comparable on fuel to similar displacement 2 strokes?
Whaletosh posted 06-20-2001 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
I never did the calculations, all I can say is that 12 gallons of gas lasted me a couple of weekends at least.

But I can tell you that I use a lot less gas on my Duantless 14 witha 60 HP 4-stroke. On the first day of use, whilst breaking in the motor, I went through probably 8 gallons of gas. My 40 HP Magnum would have needed 12 gallons for the same day.

Still if you motor is running well you would need to run it an awfull lot just to recoup the cost of the repower.

The only two negatives can see to holding onto a perfectly good 2-stroke motor is resale value and regulations. As more people switch over to accepting and demanding 4-strokes you will have a harder time selling you motor. Plus there are going to be more bans on conventional 2-strokes which may force you to repower anyway and will make your current motor lower in value if not worthless.

begin soapbox
Politicians and 'crats are like lemings; once an idea catches on others impose the same rules using the same reasons. Count on it.
end soapbox

Sean

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