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Author Topic:   Guardian Flushing System
Tsuriki BW posted 07-05-2001 08:54 PM ET (US)   Profile for Tsuriki BW   Send Email to Tsuriki BW  
Considering the Guardian (Marine Science Technologies, http://www.mstguardian.com/main.htm) system to make flushing out my 1999 75hp Merc a simple and effective procedure. Looking to extend the the life of the engine and proper maintance. Have heard different view about these system, specifically if they are capable of flushing the entire cooling areas of the engine.

Does anyone use the Guardian? Has this subject come up before? If so can you give me some hints where to search. If you have installed the system how do you feel about it. Meets your expections? Ease of installation?

Thanks

Tsuriki

Bigshot posted 07-06-2001 10:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
earmuffs.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-06-2001 10:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Dear Mr. "Bigshot"

Do you have any experience with the Guardian system? That is what I am looking for.

Tsuriki

Bigshot posted 07-06-2001 10:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Mr "Tsuriki" Looked into them a while back. Think it is a crock just like salt away. I have a freshwater flush on my I/O that is connected to the hull fitting so I am familiar with the benefits of flushing. Earmuffs! You do not need high pressure to flush a motor, you need fresh water to wash away salt.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-06-2001 10:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
"Bigshot" ...Thanks for the expanded comments. Anyone have experience with the Guardian system that can help?

Tsuriki

Bigshot posted 07-06-2001 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
On last thing, At $230 you have to be nuts. read the bullet points again, it is actually amusing. "keeps contaminated water from being recycled!" Who would recycle water from an outboard in their driveway? " Motor must be run for muffs to work and with the cost of gas this can be expensive." How many "muff" hours do you have to run in order to make up the $230? "90% of all impellor failures happen during flushing." True, due to stupidity. You have to watch the muffs because they can slip off. You are not supposed to use full water pressure, and should not go over 1500 rpm's on muffs. Anyone who wants to spend $230 on "earmuffs" go ahead. In some instances it might be necessary like on a dingy on a boat deck, etc. For Joe Blow in his driveway or back yard, save your $$$.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-06-2001 11:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Thanks for the additional comments. What about the thought that "Ear muff" flushing will not flush all areas unless the thermostat opens up? How long would you "normally" have to run the engine on "muffs" to get the water flowing through out the cooling system. Thanks

Tsuriki

Tom W Clark posted 07-06-2001 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Greg,

I don't know anything about the Guardian system but here are my thoughts on flushing in general:

Fresh water flushing good. Salt water in motor bad. On these points TWG and I agree, but unlike TWG I don't think the world's coming to an end just because my boat is run in salt water.

After running a boat in salt water I flush it at the first opportunity. Yes, ear muffs work well but my preferred method of flushing is fresh water immersion. By this I mean take the boat to a fresh water launch ramp, back it down and start the motor.

I adopted this technique initially for the sake of the trailer under my Outrage which I had spent a lot of money on replacing the brakes when I bought it used. (The previous owner was not as conscientious about flushing.) It is impossible to flush out trailer brakes by spraying garden hose. I installed a brake flushing system to help with this but I never felt this was 100% thorough and it took too much time and effort every time I came back from boating.

The total immersion technique flushed the whole trailer, frame, brakes and all and allows the motor to be run with the lower unit underwater.

My usual routine after pulling the boat from the Shilshole launch ramp is to drive down to the 14th Street launch ramp here in Ballard on the Ship Canal and back her down into the water further than I would normally do when launching. This insures that all the salt will be flushed off the trailer and a good portion of the hull as well as the mid section of the motor. I then start the motor and let it run while I grab a bucket and start pouring water over anything that needs rinsing.

When I come back from a fishing trip to Sekiu or Neah Bay I stop at the ramp on Lake Crescent and perform this routine. I take my down riggers and dip them in the lake as well as my fishing poles, landing net, ect. I pour buckets of water all over the motor and boat and only hose it down at home if I feel some part of the rig needs special attention.

For those who have the luxury of a fresh water ramp near their salt water boating areas this is a great system and for you Greg, it might work well too. I know you fish on the Sound and I bet there's a ramp on Lake Washington or Lake Samammish near you that might be convenient. I really feel the motor gets a complete flush and will live it's life as though it's a fresh water boat.

Tsuriki BW posted 07-06-2001 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Tom, Thanks a lot. Your post/method makes a lot of sense. I used to go to the ramp at Lk. Sammamish and do the same thing. Sometimes the ramp is so crowded, and sometimes, after a long day of getting skunked, it seemed like just too much of a pain. I thought there could be a better way.

I try to wash the boat and trailer off and do the "muff" thing after each trip. Still see more "residue" on the boat and trailer than I like. After reading posts about the cost of "re-powering" I want to do the best I can to keep the engine clean inside and out.

Any thoughts on the need for the thermostat to be open to allow the water to clean out the whole system. How long? Way to check if the water is flowing throughout the system?
]
Thanks again Tom.

Greg (Tsuriki)

Bigshot posted 07-06-2001 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Motor is still warm(er) so I would say a couple minutes max. It does not take very long. If a lake will flush it, so will muffs. Tsuriki, I am not arguing here, I am just saying it looks like a great product, for $50? $230 is ludicrous! I live on brackish water and try and flush regularly. My father lives in NJ on salt and never flushes and his 8 year old johnson is fine. I have a 78 Evinrude run it's entire life in salt and the water jackets are clean. No matter what you do, salt water will shorten the life of an outboard, not as much as an I/O. A riser in salt might last 3-5 years, fresh 10+. An outboard all depends but do not lose sleep over it. I rarely come accross motors that are rotted out that have been remotely maintained. Good luck!
Whaletosh posted 07-06-2001 03:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Greg,

General tip on flushing in the driveway. Let the motor run sometime and listen to the exhaust. When the thermostat opens the tone will change because there will be more water flowing through the motor and down the exhaust. Most of the water that goes through the block goes out through the through hub exhaust of the the prop, not the telltale.

On my 1974 Evinrude 70 there wasn't a teltale. I could tell the thermostat opened, because until it did no water came out of the hub of the prop. I could always watch the hub of the prop and as soon as the water flowing well I knew the thermostat was open fully. I then let the water flow for 3-5 minutes. I boat in freshwater, so salt may need more flushing time.


I have used this same procedure on every boat I have had. The change in exhaust tone isn't as noticable on my current motor, but I still can watch the water coming out of the prop to tell when the thermostat opens up.

Sean

P.S. this also helps one to keep tabs on the thermostat to see if it is stuck open. If the water flows well on a cool motor immedialtely you could very well have a stuck thermostat.

andygere posted 07-06-2001 05:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
If your ramp has a wash rack or hose down area, you can put the muffs on while the motor is still warm and the thermostat will open very quickly.
andygere posted 07-06-2001 05:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
One more thing: Fresh water is also corrosive, just less so than salt water. Depending on the source, TDS can be quite high, providing good conditions for galvonic corrosion. In addition, the pH of potable water can vary significantly, with more aggresssive water at both ends of the scale. It's too bad the outboard manufacturers have not developed a built-in system to facilitate flushing of motors on boats berthed in salt (or fresh) water.
Contender25 posted 07-06-2001 05:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Contender25  Send Email to Contender25     
Check out this link

http://www.thehulltruth.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000939.html

PS Tsuiriki,You still have not told us about your Bimini T how does it work/look?

Tsuriki BW posted 07-06-2001 08:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
First of all, thanks to all for your comments and input, even Bigshot:), especially Tom and Whaletosh for specific techniques. What a great site this is, and great members.

I am leaning back to the "traditional" way of flushing the engine, and andy we have fairly "clean" water here at the house (country well) but good point. Contender25, that post a couple of days ago is what got me to thinking about the Guardian system.

That being said...I would still like to hear from anyone who has used this or similar system.

Till then, Lk Sammamish, muffs will be the order of the day. (Going salmon fishing out of Gig Harbor tomorrow).

Again, thanks.

Tsuriki

Hank posted 07-06-2001 11:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hank  Send Email to Hank     
I keep my Montauk in salt water several months at a time. When I pull the boat out of the water I will sometimes do a backflush on the engine. My '84 Evinrude 4 cylinder, 90HP
has two rubber tubes which connects the thermostat housing to the engine cooling system. These tubes are specially formed to fit a Y-connector from the thermostat housing. I simply disconnect the tubes and backflush the engine while it is not running.
The water passes through the cooling chambers and comes out the cooling water inlets at the lower unit. It passes through the water pump impeller on its way out.
I don't do this more than every couple of years. Incidentally, these rubber tubes should be inspected from time to time as one of mine sprung a leak a few years ago.

The tubes are held on with hose clamps but are not too easy to get on and off because of limited clearance. But it does seem easier to me than taking boat and engine to a fresh water lake.

In looking at the Guardian web site, it sounds like they are doing essentially the same thing, in principle, with their kit.

Hank

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