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  The Genus SALMON [Was: 16' 7" hull - Performace with 75 HP?]

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Author Topic:   The Genus SALMON [Was: 16' 7" hull - Performace with 75 HP?]
JDH posted 07-06-2001 02:05 PM ET (US)   Profile for JDH   Send Email to JDH  
I have a 1962 hull with a 1989 Suzuki DT-75. I am not sure what the prop is, but it looks like the factory prop.

On a choppy day on the lake on the 4th, with 2 adults and 2 small kids (500 lbs.), and 12 gal fuel - seemed like I could only hit 34MPH (GPS measurement).

I really don't need to go faster, but any guesses to how well matched the prop is to the hull.

Any thoughts?

Jim

Bigshot posted 07-06-2001 02:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Sounds about right. Do you have a tach? If so what is your WOT rpm alone and what is the redline? I believe your redline is 5300 on that Zuki. Move up to a ss prop and you will pick up a couple mph. an't determine doodoo without more info.
JDH posted 07-06-2001 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for JDH  Send Email to JDH     
Don't have a tach, but plan to add one after I build a new console.

Crabbing just opened here, so with a bit of luck, I will get out Saturday and catch my limit....

Bigshot posted 07-07-2001 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Crabbing has a limit now? Are you talking Blue claws? Where do you live? Live in FL, can catch all we want, NJ too.
Bigshot posted 07-07-2001 09:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Never mind, you live on the other coast. What kind, Dungenous?
TightPenny posted 07-09-2001 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for TightPenny  Send Email to TightPenny     
Sorry to disagree with you Bigshot, but there is a limit on crabbing in New Jersey.

You are limited to a maximum of one bushel of crabs per day, minimum size, 4-1/2" point to point for hardshell blue crabs.

Bigshot posted 07-09-2001 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
When is the last time you got a bushel? I know the size and I think it should be bigger. have you ever eaten a 4.5" crab, might as well not have. We get giant 8-9" blues here in FL and NOBODY eats them. They are huge and heavy and I get them in my canal. Have to import the old Bay though. Actually the last time I got a bushel was a bout 1996(moved to FL in 98) at the Barnegat inlet. A cold front came in as they were going out to the ocean to mate and they were everywhere for a day or 2. I just happened to have a net and started scooping them up while anchored. Got to the point I was throwing back the smaller ones(5+) so I would not be over my bushel. I do not keep females either, neither should anyone else while we are talking crabs.
JDH posted 07-09-2001 12:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for JDH  Send Email to JDH     
I am in the PNW.

The limit is 6 males with a pt to pt of 6.25"

We have all kinds of restrictions because the tribal fishers get first crack.

On a side note, they have opened the season for Silvers in District 9. Of course this appears to be pointless since they won't begin running for 3 or 4 more weeks. But we got up at the crack yesterday and went out in my buddy's classic for a few hours anyway....

Bigshot posted 07-09-2001 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
What is limited to 6 males? What is a silver. From the east coast here, you must excuse my ignorance on the crustaceans from your area. We have Blue claws, stone, and some eat other kinds but that is as far as the local menu goes for me. Can't wait to get out there and get some fresh dungenous. man are they good.
JDH posted 07-09-2001 03:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for JDH  Send Email to JDH     
Oooops - sorry guys...

Crabs here are Dungeness or Red crabs.

Silvers - Silver salmon

Its really confusing because it seems like ( I am not really a fisherman - I've only lived up here 4+ years) every kind of salmn has 2 or more names - I still don't know whats what - Chinook/King/Jack???

But I do like the local crabbing....

whalerron posted 07-11-2001 10:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
JDH, I have a 1969 16' 7" hull with a 1975 70hp Johnson. Running with a strong tide, it pushes the boat at 33mph as measured with a GPS. In still water, it runs more like 30 mph. I am not sure how much this really helps though because your speed really is dependent on the prop pitch and the engine RPMs. But, 35 mph does sound about right.
lhg posted 07-11-2001 11:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
You east coast guys (I used to be one and lived in NH, CT and NY for 20 years!) don't know what you're missing if you haven't boated and fished in the Pacific Northwest, particularly the British Columbia coast!

Here's my simplified knowledge of salmon:

King Salmon = Chinook Salmon (largest of the salmon family)

Silver Salmon = Coho Salmon (better eating than Chinook, and a smaller fish)

Sockeye Salmon (reddest of the species, and I think the best eating fresh or smoked - the common canned species). These are the red skinned creatures you see the Grizzlies scooping up out the spawning streams.

Pink Salmon (least desireable of the species as far as I'm concerned - terrible canned!)

As a general principle, in salmon, the redder the flesh, the better tasting. My favorite - hot smoked sockeye salmon filets from the PNW!

While we're on the subject, most don't know that the Atlantic Salmon (or Norwegian Salmon) is not a salmon at all, but a trout, a cousin to the Steelhead or Rainbow)
At most restaurants in the US, this is now supplied farm raised & flash frozen.

JDH posted 07-12-2001 10:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for JDH  Send Email to JDH     
I think I can add:

Pink = humpy = dogfish

The Atlantic Salmon thing confused me ot here for at least 2 years until I figured out it was a species not a location. Atlantic Salmon is farmed all over up here in the PNW - go figure.

BTW - Steelhead - thats some gooood eating - hope to catch a few now that I have my BW...

Tom W Clark posted 07-12-2001 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Well, now that this thread has degenerated into a fish lesson I'll chime in.

Chinook (Oncorhynchus tshwawytscha) a.k.a. "King", "Blackmouth" (in it's immature form), "Tyee" and "Spring" (in Canada)

Coho ("Cohoe" in Canada) (Oncorhynchus tshwawytscha) a.k.a. "Silver", "Hooknose" (when mature)

Sockeye (Oncorhynchus nerka) a.k.a. "Red" (mostly in Alaska), "Blue Back" (Columbia and Quinalt River forms)

Chum (Oncorhynchus keta) a.k.a. "Dog salmon" not "Dog Fish" (which is what we call sand sharks or more properly: "Spiny Dogfish")

Pink (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) a.k.a. "Humpback", "Humpie"

Steelhead (Salmo gairderi) or (Oncorhynchus gairdneri) as it has now been reclassified as a salmon not a trout, a.k.a. "Rainbow Trout" (in freshwater form)

Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) which puts it in with the trout species

Which is the best to eat? Well that's subjective. Some like the Chinook (very rich and oily), some the Silver (less fatty), still others prefer the Sockeye (the reddest flesh). Myself, I prefer the Chinook or King, especially "White King" which is a pale fleshed form of Chinook that I've heard comprises as much as 10% of the Chinook population.

As an interesting aside, in the Salmon fishing industry it was recognized long ago that consumers equated redness of Salmon flesh with quality hence the popularity of Sockeye. But way back when it seemed the salmon population was inexhaustible, canneries would simply dump any "White Kings" they got because the consumers would just assume it was no good. One of the most rare and perhaps the best Salmon simply thrown away! Reading some of those accounts makes me sick.

The Atlantic Salmon we have out here are farm or pen reared from stock brought from the East coast. Except for the occasional escapee, we do not catch them while sport fishing. There is some concern here about escapees interbreeding with the native stock and becoming naturalized but so far Washington State Dept. of Fish and Wildlife has found no evidence of this. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Toad2001 posted 07-16-2001 01:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Toad2001  Send Email to Toad2001     
Tyee are only those over 30lbs.
jimh posted 07-16-2001 08:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I noticed a trend at several upscale restaurants where we have recently been out to diner in which the menu offers "branded" salmon.

The salmon is offered not just as salmon, but as salmon from a particular river in the Pacific Northwest. Apparently some rivers produce a species of salmon that is tastier than others, so now we are seeing restaurant salmon identified by the river from which it was caught!

Is this happening on the West Coast, or is this just an attempt to fool Midwesterners into paying a premium for salmon.

By the way, the menu touts the extreme redness of the flesh as proof of its extra good taste.

gunnelgrabber posted 07-16-2001 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for gunnelgrabber  Send Email to gunnelgrabber     
to all of you...what an interesting discussion!..for a grits eating southerner, a chance to partake of fresh smoked sockeye-red salmon just pulled out of the kenai river was about as enjoyable as it has been for us sheltered ,backward types!..then the clams, halibut...start hallucinating just remembering..we did learn NOT to pronounce salmon as it's spelled...they ought to be running now!!! dream on...lm
Tom W Clark posted 07-16-2001 10:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
jimh,

You've made an accurate observation. The trend towards "branded" salmon is not peculiar to the Midwest. The same marketing genius is used here in Seattle as well as the rest of the West Coast.

"Copper River" is the most touted of all the salmon. That may simply be because of the numbers. The Copper River in Alaska is huge and so are their salmon runs. These fish are said to be extra delicious because of the river itself, ect, ect.

My own opinion is this is just hype. The tastiness of a salmon will depend much more on the type and maturity of the salmon as well as the care that was taken during and after it was harvested. The old "redder the better" line is alive and well. I do not think it will ever be possible to educate salmon consumers beyond the equation of red flesh = quality.

Toad2001, you are correct. The term "Tyee" is applied to salmon over twenty pounds. I've only caught two or three in my whole life.

As to aliases used to describe salmon in Canada, the ones I've listed are used in British Columbia, but does the same vernacular get used on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes, or Canada's East coast?

andygere posted 07-16-2001 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
As a former seafood chef at various Cape Cod restaurants,I find this an interesting thread. I agree with Tom that the handling of fish once its been harvested has everything to do with how good (or bad) it is on your plate. The key is simple: ice and freshness. Warm fish is bad fish, and old fish is bad fish. When you catch a fish, ice it immedately. Shaved ice is best, but cubes are fine (forget about blue ice). Keep the fish iced until its cleaned or filleted, then put it in heavy poly bags and ice it in the fridge until its prepared and served. Ideally, this will be later that evening, but never more than a few days later. Keep the fish iced in the fridge, and don't let it soak in the melt water. I never freeze fish because I think it degrades the flavor significantly. I'd rather give fresh fillets to friends and neigbors, and just go out fishing again for the next meal! One last tip: don't over cook it. Most people do.
Tom W Clark posted 07-16-2001 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Andy offers good advice.

When I land a salmon I immediately knock it unconscious but try not to kill it. I then take my fillet knife and sever the main artery at the base of the fish head where the gills attach near the spine. I then grab the tail and invert the fish thus allowing much of its blood to drain out aided by the still pumping heart. By bleeding the fish this way I believe the flesh will stay fresh longer.

The next thing I do after a few minutes is clean the fish. Removing the viscera will definitely slow the degradation of the flesh. Here in Washington we cannot fillet, or even behead the fish on board because this would make the fish harder to identify for compliance with the fishing regs, but there is no reason why you cannot clean the fish. It also saves me the trouble of disposing of fish guts at home or at the dock.

After cleaning, the fish goes on ice, cubed usually because this is most available, but if I can get it, crushed or shaved is even better because it will cushion the fish better and I can more easily pack some into the body cavity.

As Andy points out, try not to let the fish soak in the ice melt.

Correction: “Tyee” refers to salmon over thirty pounds as Toad2001 indicates

Whaletosh posted 07-16-2001 03:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Tom,

I kill the fish and put it on ice. In Michigan it is a violation to discharge the guts overboard. The wording is vague, so I wouldn't risk even bleeding the fish overboard. I get the fish on ice ASAP, and promptly clean process it when home. I always end up with clean, fresh smelling, delicous steaks or fillets. "Fishy" smelling, "Fishy tasting fish isn't fresh.

This really applies to all game; fish, fowl, or beast. Kill and get it cooled down as fast as possible. This limits bacteria growth which is the main culprit. The second point is to process the animal in a way that eliminates or limits body fluids from contaminating the flesh.


Sean

Tom W Clark posted 07-17-2001 11:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Sean,

That Michigan reg about fish guts surprises me. Quite frankly it's wrong. Throwing the viscera overboard is precisely what we should all be doing. It's the biologically correct thing to do and I sometimes feel guilty about putting fish guts in a plastic bag and putting it in the garbage knowing it will wind up in a land fill.

Fish are just another part of the food chain and that viscera embodies quite a bit of nutrition for the rest of the aquatic environment. If a fish is not caught by man its life will end somewhere in the water and its body will be returned to the environment in which it lives, the nutrients of its decaying flesh providing food for other life forms. To remove the nutritional value from the environment and bury it in some land fill is a huge waste.

Though not as plentiful as they once were, the salmon runs have historically provided almost unimaginable returns of biological matter (nutrients) from the oceans to land. There is a school of thought now that views the salmon runs as one of the primary avenues for the transfer of nutrients from the sea to land.

Now I understand that Michigan doesn't border an ocean but I cannot help think the same applies there as well. That reg sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to the thought of some swimming beach covered in fish guts.

OK, who wants to take this thread even further of topic?

Bigshot posted 07-17-2001 11:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Got one for ya! Jewfish has been renamed recently to a Goliath grouper or some crap. Now in the regs it says no Jewfishing. Where does it say in writing that the common fisherman has access to, that Goliath grouper is not fair game. I say we go get some and see. Reason being they are ruining the reefs off Tamp Bay etc. They have been protected sooo long that they have grown to 400lbs+ and eat everything in sight. Including other grouper.
Orca posted 07-17-2001 11:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Orca  Send Email to Orca     
Please add "Pinook","Oncorhynchus gorbuscha x O. tshawytscha" per page #241 2001 IGFA World Records. 8 pound test,8 weight rod,can't remember fly. W.R.H.
jimh posted 07-17-2001 12:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I used to catch some pan fish in the little rocky bays and inlets of the North Channel (of Lake Huron). I'd clean and filette them, then leave all the offal on a rock. In about five minutes it would all be gone, ingested by the first gull to find it.

That seemed like a much better solution than cruising around with a plastic bag of fish guts in my cockpit locker for a week, then putting that rotting mess into a trash can at the marina.

Tsuriki BW posted 07-17-2001 12:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Off topic another notch..

Was on a salmon charter which had 4 - 5 Japanese guys on the boat, 1 working here and the rest visiting. We were in an area with a lot of flounder on the bottom. They started tarketing them rather than salmon. They were having a ball and had plans for a real feast. (they usually fry or roast the whole fish). When we quit they must have had 50 to 60 from 5 to 12 inches long.

The bait girl began cleaning the salmon we caught and as a favor cleaned and filleted the flounder. When we hit the dock, bags of salmon were handed out to their owners. The Japanese guys waited till she was done and then went to get their bags and bags of flounder. She handed them 2 small bags of fillets. Their mouths dropped and said "Where are our fish"...A bit of a misunderstanding...Needless to say, they were not happy.

Tsuriki

Whaletosh posted 07-17-2001 02:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Tom,

Keep in mind that the Great Lakes aren't a self-flushing as the oceans are. There aren't as many carion (sp) eaters. The majority of the lake water stays pretty cold, slowing the decaying process.

Also keep in mind that salmon, steelhead, and brown trout aren't native the Great Lakes. Which also means that large fish migrating in large numbers up the streams of the Great Lakes regions is relativaly new ecological event.

I don't know exactly why the regulation exists. But it has been around for a long time. It could be there ofr political or ecologigal issues, I just don't know. I only mentioned it to help other Michigan anglers avoid getting a citation.

Sean

Bigshot posted 07-17-2001 02:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
In NJ, flounder are now 14" minimum I think. In FL they are only 10 or 11". Weird.

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