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Author Topic:   revenge '20 & 225 outboard
rbonilla posted 07-12-2001 04:58 PM ET (US)   Profile for rbonilla   Send Email to rbonilla  
anyone running a 225hp on the back of a revenver '20?...the plate states not to run over a 200hp...is a 225 going to damage the boat?...or is it a "weight & balanve thing"..

thanx...

richard / colorado

Bigshot posted 07-12-2001 09:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
won't hurt a whaler but will hurt your wallet on 2 issues. 1) if you get into an accident, no matter who's at fault, you will lose and insurance will not pay cause it is overpowered. 2) the performance dif will be minimal but gas consumption will be noticable. Stick with the 200, easier to sell due to the insurance deal. I REALLY wanted to put a 90 Yamaha on my 15 cause it was only 20lbs more than my 70 but I think it would be hard toi sell it due to people thinking I beat on it(I did). That is my worry on going to a 115 on my Montauk when the time comes.
lhg posted 07-13-2001 02:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Bigshot, forgive me, but as an Insurance Broker, I have to correct or clarify your statement, which could or could not, be true.

1. If one intentionally misrepresents HP to your Agent, and gets into an accident, your statement could be true. Only when an insurance contract is issued under false pretenses, can coverage be denied.

2. Assuming one is honest (a good thing to be in a legal contract like insurance), and tell your Agent your HP, if he's good, he can find you a company that will insure your boat with it's stated HP, regardless of published limit. The insurance Co has issued you a contract and they are obligated to defend and pay on your behalf, up to liability limit of the policy. It's now their problem, not yours. Because of increased risk, they will charge more.
Is a 25 HP overpowered Whaler more of an accident risk than a 1000HP Cigarette Boat?
Hardly, but yet the go-fasts seem to get insurance, albeit expensive. If you're a bottom line price shopper for insurance, you're going to have stay within the limits.
Talk to your Agent first.

I have my 230 HP powered 18 Outrage insured with Travelers insurance, and I pay about a 60% mark up for the privledge.

3. Some Companies, like the Boat/US program, won't take a boat, period, if the HP exceeds the plate. You would know this ahead of time, and not be accepted for their insurance, so once again, your statement is not exactly correct. I tried to get a quote from them for my 18 Outrage and it came back, "not eligible".

LarrySherman posted 07-13-2001 07:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Larry,

The rig on your 18 has me boggled. A few questions please:

What does that much hp on your 18 do for you?

Did you strenghten the transom to support it?

Any signs of strees in the gelcoat?

I assume twin 115's?

As you know, I am in the planning stages of re-powering my boat, and when I read your post about putting a single on a 25 being a crime, I started thinking about twins. To keep costs low, I was thinking twin 135's (merc), or even twin tohatsu 140's. I am worried though that I my be making a mistake, when I consider that both your 18 and 25 are rigged over the rated hp.

Thanks, Larry

jimh posted 07-13-2001 09:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
When planning on powering with twin engines, it is a good idea to consider using engines of sufficient horsepower that a single engine could get the boat on plane.

If you have an engine problem with one engine, it would be a much faster trip back to the dock if the other engine can get the boat up on plane and maintain it there.

This approach may lead to having a bit more total horsepower on the transom than recommended.

rbonilla posted 07-13-2001 10:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for rbonilla  Send Email to rbonilla     
we need the extra power up in colorado...we are at aprox 6k feet...a whaler gets pretty slow and sloggy....i went from a 150 to 225...nice difference...
Bigshot posted 07-13-2001 10:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Lhg that is true, for the $ anything can be insured, even Jennifer Lopez's ass, but like I said that will make selling it a bit difficult. I have been told by cops that if the guy is overpowered, he's getting the ticket. whether true or not, can't say, but the kid in the hotrod.... For 25hp I don't think it is worth the hassles. Now back to your rig. Why an extra 80hp? The 18 w/150 runs 50mph. Usually Whalers have a "theoretical" hull speed that once you hit it it might take double the HP to get 10mph. I have been on a 17 montauk with a 140 and I do not think it did much more than 50. How does your perform and what have you gps'd it at? How does that compare to a 20'? Just curious, I would love to pull up to the dealer in that.
Bigshot posted 07-13-2001 10:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Well too late now, you already did it. Nevermind. Was the 225 a better deal than the 200? Who installed it? Reason being I could not find anyone who would install an engine over the max. You can find backyard or small shops, but no dealers would touch it due to their liabilty, therefore I could only imagine mine.
Tom W Clark posted 07-13-2001 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
rbonilla,

Don't worry about it. The boat will be just fine. A 200 and a 225 are very nearly the same engine (same weight) so it will be like having a 200 with a little extra kick. In fact, unless you operate at full throttle, and few of us do for more than several seconds at a time, then the boat will not know the difference. In other words if you are at cruising speed in a 20' with a 225 then the motor may be producing, oh let's say 100 hp to keep it at that speed. As far as the boat is concerned, there's no difference between the motor that has the potential to produce 200 hp and the motor that has the potential to produce 225 hp.

As the the insurance myth, follow lhg's advice. "Over-powered" Whalers are everywhere. I doubt that they all are running without insurance, and they are sold on the used boat market by dealers and private individuals all day long every day of the week.

Gas consumption between the two motors? Again, at cruise speed the motors are putting out the same power to keep the hull at a given speed so fuel consumption will be nearly the same.

lhg posted 07-14-2001 12:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Regarding the questions on my 18 Outrage with with twin 115HP Mercs. The boat will do about 63, if you care to go there. I don't.
It runs 55 pretty comfortably, however, also rarely do that. 95% of its use is at speeds 35 and below. The power is nice when carrying a heavy load of people, gear and fuel. Cruises at about 3mpg @ 30mph.

The extra 80 HP just more or less happened!
Previous boat was a 16' Nauset, and I had just purchased a brand new Merc 115 for it 6 months previous. During the winter, I decided to move up to a new 1986 18' Outrage, and I definitely wanted twin engines this time. So my reasoning went like this:

1. I can buy new Merc 75's. However, they were a four cylinder engine at the time, and not particularly highly regarded. The in-line 6's are a better engine.

2. Merc's next higher HP engine, was an in-line 6 90HP, basically a detuned 115. This would be 180HP total and would have have been the way to go, from my perspective.

3. But, I had just bought a new 115, and selling it on the Nauset would have meant a bath. Besides the Nauset was overpowered with it and some buyers would not want that.
(The Nauset handled it beautifully, at about 55mph).

4. So, I switched it over to the new 18, and bought another left over identical engine for a real good price, and sold the Nauset without engine. Total cost was the same as buying a new pair of 75's, and taking a beating on the 6 month old 115.

So that's how it happened. Actually, this pair of engines would be IDEAL twin engine power for a 20 or 22 Outrage/Revenge. They are a bit much for the 18, but the boat gets plenty of attention, and they sound great.
They are pre-mix engines, which I wanted, since the 18 Outrage (nor the 20 & 22) does not have a great place for twin batteries plus twin oil tanks. Many Dealers have seen the boat, and usually just end up shaking their head, but quite curious as to how it runs!

Next engines for the boat, if and when (no reason to change them now) will be 60HP EFI Merc 4 strokes, unless higher HP ones can be reduced in weight. The current 115's only weigh 305LB each. (Picture of this power setup in Jim's reference section under engine brackets)

LarrySherman posted 07-14-2001 12:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Ok, got it. What are your thoughts about twins in the 130-140 hp range on a 25 with a bracket? Would a single 130 be able to get the 25 up on plane? I can certianly perceive the value of having more hp, but the cost increase is tough to handle. I guess twin 150's would be about perfect, but if you drop down in hp, you can save a lot of money...

Thanks again, Larry

Bigshot posted 07-14-2001 09:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Buddy had a 23 Seacraft with twin 130's. Wouls barely plane on 1 engine. Granted it would do better with right prop, etc, but very anemic.
TheWiskey posted 07-15-2001 10:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for TheWiskey  Send Email to TheWiskey     
I am in a similar predicament. What propeller are you thinking of for your engine?
LarrySherman posted 07-17-2001 12:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
I'm not sure you are asking me, but I was thinking of the four blad "Offshore" props from mercury. I'll have to wait until I figure my power out first.
rbonilla posted 07-18-2001 08:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for rbonilla  Send Email to rbonilla     
i already have the 225 on the boat, so...i am glad to here there are others "overpowered"...it is disclosed to the ins co, so that should not be an issue...thanx for all of the feedback!!

richard / colorado

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