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Author	Topic:   50 HP vs. 90 HP Honda
NewWhalerGuy	posted 09-22-2001 08:55 AM ET (US)         Trying to decide between these two motors for my 97 Standard.. at 850 lbs it is about 100 lbs less than a Montauk. Wants to be able to troll and also carry family... the 50 would be better for fishing... the 90 better for speed... but all advertising I have seen seems to have 70-100 HP motors... Thoughts please? Thank you David
dgp	posted 09-22-2001 08:59 AM ET (US)             NWG, here's a thread you might find interesting http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000013.html
Mort	posted 09-23-2001 05:43 PM ET (US)             I just went through this dilemma this summer and all the posts on this site dealing with this subject were a tremendous help, I will add just a little more here. I have a Montauk and my first inclination was to put a 4 stroke 70 on it, buy after trying out one with a 50 and one with a 90 (I was lucky to find two boats in the area with folks who let me ride along with them.) I decided not to even bother with a 70 went right for the 50. The 90 is very heavy and although the top speed was better, it took too much speed to get on plane. The 50 Honda was a little sluggish "out of the hole" but was fast enough for what I need (90% of my use is fishing). I finally went with the Suzuki 50 (238 lb.) because of the fuel injection; it is much better starting and accelerating than the Honda is. With my Suzuki I can get about 31 - 32 mph at WOT, but the best part is easy cruising at the lower speeds. At 10 to 15 mph I am still on plane and a rough chop is actually pretty comfortable. And for trolling, it is fantastic.
NewWhalerGuy	posted 09-23-2001 11:15 PM ET (US)             Thanks for the feedback... it is good to know that I am not the only one facing this dilemma. I think we all something with the footprint and fuel economy of the 50... the top end of the 90.. and something that can troll right down.... perhaps we need a NUCLEAR outboard!!! I will probably go with Honda 50... as we have more dealers for it here in Canada... but I have heard a lot of good things about Suzuki. David
lhg	posted 09-24-2001 12:05 AM ET (US)          You should also look into a new Merc 60Hp EFI four stroke. Not any heavier and it will have a lot more zip than the 50 Honda. Probably the same price and same gas mileage, too. I've heard a lot of people complain that they could have used more HP than they purchased. But nobody ever says they have TOO MUCH HP. Underpowering is the biggest mistake people make with outboard boats. Then you're stuck with your decision for ten years or so.
Bigshot	posted 09-24-2001 01:42 PM ET (US)             Think about resale too. I would not even think of looking at one with a 50hp. With my 90 Yamaha I cruise at 28mph at 3700rpm and burn about 4gph. That is great and the motor should last long because it is running efficiently. If you got the 75 it would be the best of both worlds.
jellisfeingold	posted 09-24-2001 02:10 PM ET (US)             I have a '99 50hp Honda on a '79 Montauk and it's a good match. The Honda is light, quiet, efficient. Most of my boating is in chop with kids, so it's usually running at part throttle. It will, however, get up to 32mph or so, which is fine with everybody here, and it gets there pretty quickly. Top speed is near redline, though, but this might be a function of the prop. What would be the perfect prop for this motor on this hull?
Highwater	posted 09-24-2001 03:49 PM ET (US)          Jellisfeingold, do you happen to know easily will a 50 hp Honda on a 17 Montauk pull up a slalom skier? How long does it take to get on a plane with a heavily-loaded boat?
NewWhalerGuy	posted 09-24-2001 07:43 PM ET (US)             So, I am pretty dedicated to HONDAs (great success in past)... so isn't a 90 Honda (why buy a 75.. same motor).. a bit HEAVY for a Standard.. (remember I will be SITTING, not standing like in a Montauk) David
NewWhalerGuy	posted 09-24-2001 07:45 PM ET (US)             So, I am pretty dedicated to HONDAs (great success in past)... so isn't a 90 Honda (why buy a 75.. same motor).. a bit HEAVY for a Standard.. (remember I will be SITTING, not standing like in a Montauk) David
Bigshot	posted 09-25-2001 09:31 AM ET (US)             Depends on what you weigh:) How about a 70 Suzuki?
jellisfeingold	posted 09-25-2001 10:23 AM ET (US)             Although I haven't yet pulled up a skier with my Honda 50/Montauk, I did a lot of slalom skiing in the 60's behind clunky lapstrake Thompsons with Johnson 40's. I'd guess that the Montauk w/50hp Honda would be a kick to ski behind. The Honda has a ton of grunt and it planes quickly enough. But I was a lot lighter in those days...
Kelly	posted 09-26-2001 07:23 AM ET (US)             Right now there is such a huge jump in weight from the 50/60 4 strokes to the 70-90 4 strokes that I think it is just a matter of time till somebody introduces a 70 hp 4 stroke in the under 300 pound range. I am confident that it will be before 2006 and I think 1 or 2 years is more likely. No proof, just my opinion. Personally, I think Honda will intorduce some new motors that address their weight issues, especially in this range. I want a new motor for my 17' also, but I think I will wait and see what happens. Kelly
shipwreck8	posted 09-26-2001 12:53 PM ET (US)             You might want to consider the Yamaha 100 FI four stroke. This engine is about 50 lbs lighter than the Honda. A neighbor has one on a 17 Edgewater and he has no problems pulling skiers.
whalernut	posted 09-30-2001 09:33 AM ET (US)             I was out on Lake Erie last weekend and a `17-`19 Sylvan deep v aluminum boat came buy me and SAMARS(Sam Barill) and it had a Honda 115 h.p. 4-stroker and boy was it quiet!!!! Man would I love a 50-60h.p. 4-stroke for my Currituck! Later I heard it at idle and WOW was it quiet, barely heard it running and then thought about my 75` 85 h.p. Johnson and how loud it is. At this moment I am having a spark plug hole retapped because I over tightened a plug and stripped out the treads. I am going with the re-tapping instead of a Helio-coil because a re-tap is stronger!!! Anyone out there ever make this costly mistake? Regards-Jack Graner.
acseatsri	posted 09-30-2001 10:45 AM ET (US)             WRONG! A helicoil is MUCH stronger. They are installed in many aircraft applications as standard equipment due to their strength. Consider the helicoil an upgrade.
whalernut	posted 09-30-2001 08:45 PM ET (US)             I didn`t know that as my mechanic doesn`t prefer them over a re-tap?? I wonder why?? Regards-Jack Graner.
acseatsri	posted 09-30-2001 09:42 PM ET (US)             I've never heard of retapping a hole after the threads have been pulled out. There's nothing left to retap without going to a larger size. Helicoil is just a diamond shaped stainless coil which results in the same "V" as the original threads. The hole is threaded larger with the exact same pitch as the old thread. Then the coil is screwed in with an insertion tool. Last thing left to do is break off the "tang", which is just a bend on the last thread at the bottom of the coil which has a crimp in it to weaken it to give a controlled break-off. A lot simpler than it sounds.
jimh	posted 09-30-2001 10:07 PM ET (US)             If this thread turns into the world's most informative discussion on re-tapping spark plugs, no one will ever find it because the topic for this thread is about something totally unrelated! It is a lot better to start a new message thread when you want to change the subject of a conversation.
88 Montauk	posted 10-25-2001 03:15 PM ET (US)             I know this is late but I wouldn't go w/a 50hp Honda on a 15' standard. It is adequate but my friend has this set up and is cursing the lack of power. He does a lot of fishing and shrimping so he love the noise level and fuel economy but can't stand the low cruising speed (3500 RPM). Also he is not able to get a grown man out of the water(skiing) if there is much weight in the boat. If you can swing it get 70 ponies.
NewWhalerGuy	posted 10-28-2001 08:40 PM ET (US)             Thanks to everyone for their replies... does anyone have any PICTURES of a 90 and/or 50 on the back of a Montauk/Standard? Wants to see what the motor looks like... not for ego... but to get an idea of the profile. Thanks David
Dick	posted 10-28-2001 09:35 PM ET (US)             David I'll send you a pic of a Merc 50/4 stk on a Montauk. Dick
csj	posted 11-07-2001 09:22 PM ET (US)             IF YOUR PLANNING ON PULLING A SKIER I WOULD SUGGEST AT LEAST A 70HP, IF NOT A 90. HAVING BEEN SKING OFTEN ON A 17 WHALER WITH A 90 JOHNSON YOUR GOING TO REGRET A 50 HP MOTOR FOR SEVERAL REASONS. IST YOUR GOING TO WEAR YOUR SKIER OUT TRYING TO PULL HIM OR HER UP, DEPENDING ON THEIR WEIGHT, AND YOUR GOING TO WEAR YOUR MOTOR OUT A WHOLE LOT SOONER.
shaker	posted 09-23-2002 11:15 PM ET (US)             Getting in late on this. I have a Honda 50 on my new 15ft Arima deep v boat. It is light for a 4 stroke and with 2 people and light gear in the boat does 30 wot and cruises 22 at 4800rpm. It tows light wake- boarders ok but you would drown a slolom skier. you may get a light person up on 2 skiis and could drop one, but no one over about 120lbs. With 4 adults and crab gear in on 3 foot rollers I can not get on plane. Excellent motor with two adults. Great economy, super quiet and with over 200hrs already on it I have not had one problem. my boat is 9oo lbs dry weight.
jimh	posted 09-24-2002 01:08 AM ET (US)             For pictures of a Honda on a Montauk, see: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage60.html
half shell	posted 09-24-2002 07:17 PM ET (US)             Nice looking rig! Some people are talented and dedicated.Some day I would love to restore an old 16.

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