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Author Topic:   60 HP Yamaha 4 stroke --> Urban Legends
Toad2001 posted 09-28-2001 02:20 AM ET (US)   Profile for Toad2001   Send Email to Toad2001  
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp

I see Yamaha has a 60 hp 4 stroke, 244lbs.
Not sure if this is new for this year, but would it not be ideal for a 15' GLS?

Comments on first hand knowledge would be appreciated. I seek an economical consistant cruising speed (25-30 MPH) and quick periodic top end (30-40MPH).

lhg posted 09-28-2001 02:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I would think that the fuel injected Mercury 60 HP 4 stroke would be a better choice. It seems that EFI technolgy will be the way to go on four stroke engines, just like it has been on the autos & big V-6 2 strokes. My guess is the carburated 4 strokes will not be in the future of outboards very long, at least those 40hp and up.
jameso posted 09-28-2001 05:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for jameso  Send Email to jameso     
I have though of repowering my 15, and if I do it will be a 4 stroke,,,but this engine is approx 55 lbs heavier than my OMC 50 horse,,OMC also made a variation of my engine with 60 horses. Being around aerospace most my life I guess power to weight comes to mind. Your top speed should be approx 36/38 with a light load and a good engine/prop setup, minimum plane speed will be 20.
Jim Armstrong
whalernut posted 09-30-2001 09:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Johnson 60/70 h.p. 2-stroke 250lbs. So that Yam. 4-stroke would work on you`re `15. I also think 60-70h.p. anything on a `15 hull is overkill and you`re 50h.p. 2-stroke is a mighty fine light engine! The Yam. 60h.p. 4-stroke would better serve a `16-`17 Classic hull, like my 73` `16 Currituck. Good luck-Jack Graner.
george nagy posted 10-03-2001 07:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
jameso, Aerospace? any relation to neil armstrong?
Toad2001 posted 10-09-2001 10:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Toad2001  Send Email to Toad2001     
Can anyone comment on the performance of a 15' GLS with a 50 Honda (4 stroke of course).
What should I expect for cruise speed and top end?
Andrew
jameso posted 10-10-2001 09:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for jameso  Send Email to jameso     
Your speed with a 50 should top out about 35/7 mph, with a light load and good weight distribution, plane at 18/20, this is is independent of engine mfg. Now if you find a 300+ lb engine it will slow you down some. See Clark's comments in reference and also another thread of his concerning performance.
Jim Armstrong,,,,no relation to Neil
outrage posted 10-11-2001 04:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for outrage  Send Email to outrage     
I have a 15' with a 50hp Suzuki four stroke. Great little motor. She pushes the boat 34/36 top end with a light load and 31mph with 3 people and fishing gear. It has a great cruising range of 25mph at 4500 rpm's. The motor is 20lbs+ lighter than the 70hp Johnson that preceeded it.
Bigshot posted 10-12-2001 08:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Yes but with my 70hp I did about 25mph @ 3400 rpms, 37 @ 4500 and about 48 at 5950:)
crosley95 posted 10-22-2001 04:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for crosley95  Send Email to crosley95     
i know neil armstrong.

crosley

Bigshot posted 10-22-2001 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Then ask him this....I think it was Neil. For years people were asking why he said "good luck Mr. Kopowsky" (or something like that) when he got off or back on the space ship. Finally, he was asked again recently, and he said since he (Mr. Kowposky) was dead, here it is: He was a kid playing in his yard and his neighbor was arguing with his wife. The neighbor's wife yelled "you're not getting any sex until that Armstrong kid walks on the moon!" Therefore he said "Good Luck Mr Kopowsky!" Might be an urban legend, but I figured you could ask if you know him.
Kelly posted 10-28-2001 11:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kelly  Send Email to Kelly     
Bigshot,
This came from an email that my sister sent me. Don't know if it is true or legend, but thought I would pass it along. Kelly


On July 20, 1969, as commander of the Apollo 11 Lunar Module, Neil
Armstrong was the first person to set foot on the moon. His first
words after stepping on the moon, "That's one small step for a man,
one giant leap for mankind," were televised to Earth and heard by
millions.

But just before he reentered the lander, he made the enigmatic
remark: "Good luck, Mr. Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was
a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut. However,
upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American
space programs.

Over the years many people questioned Armstrong as to what the "Good
luck Mr. Gorsky" statement meant, but Armstrong always just smiled.

On July 5, 1995, in Tampa Bay, Florida, while answering questions
following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question
to Armstrong.

This time he finally responded. Mr. Gorsky had died and so Neil
Armstrong felt he could answer the question.

In 1938 when he was a kid in a small Midwest town, he was playing
baseball with a friend in the backyard. His friend hit a fly ball,
which landed in his neighbor's yard by the bedroom windows.

His neighbors were Mr. and Mrs. Gorsky. As he leaned down to pick up
the ball, young Armstrong heard Mrs. Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky.
"Sex! You want sex?! You'll get sex when the kid next door walks on
the moon!"

Toad2001 posted 10-28-2001 03:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Toad2001  Send Email to Toad2001     
outrage,
The 50hp suz is 243-lbs.
other 50's are near 200-lb. What's with that?
Does it seem too heavy?
Kelly posted 10-29-2001 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kelly  Send Email to Kelly     
The Honda 50 is the only 4 stroke I have seen that is close to 200 pounds, the rest are close to 240. Kelly
where2 posted 10-29-2001 12:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
If the Yamaha 60Hp 4-stroke is anything like my dad's 50Hp 4-stroke High-Thrust that he purchased in June, it's a great running engine. If you're running a 2-stroke, then it certainly is more economical. His application was for a non-planing hull, replacing a 70Hp 3-cyl OMC.

For as much as I love the Fuel Injection on my car, I love the ability to disassemble a carburetor when the outboard engine is not running right. If I compare the cost of a carb rebuild kit to replacing a fuel injector that has plugged, I think the carb kit will be cheaper today, and tomorrow. Boats are notorious for fuel quality problems, whether you're running a Racor, or just the factory filter under the engine cover...

crosley95 posted 10-30-2001 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for crosley95  Send Email to crosley95     
i've heard the same story. Mr. Armstrong, as you may know, has never endorsed a product, does not give interviews, in fact simply wants to live his life in privacy. He felt he had a job to do and did it. That being said, once you get beyond the fact that this guy is in the league with Christopher Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan...Vasco da Gama, he's really just a regular guy. Most would walk right by the guy and not even think twice. I know a guy who has offered me $10,000 for a signed baseball by Neil. i said to him... "you want me to [deceive] Neil Armstrong?"... Neil Armstrong... a true american hero.
Bigshot posted 10-30-2001 03:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
before you call it [deleted], you might want to ask him if he wants a cut:) Didn't he do cereal commercials or something?
Whalerdan posted 10-31-2001 02:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
Yea, just tell him you're tring to get back some of extra tax money you spent sending him to the moon.
jimh posted 11-01-2001 12:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
We have gotten a bit off-topic here, but let me contribute to the Neil Armstrong trivia.

First, that "Mr. Gorsky" mention is very interesting. I had not heard that before.

As for walking on the moon, and all the rest, what was actually said as Armstrong walked and what was supposed to be said are slightly different.

The "script" called for him to say:

--That's one small step for a man,
one giant leap for mankind--

This makes sense, contrasting the step of a single man ("a man") with the sudden leap in achievement of all of mankind.

What we heard back on earth was:

"That's one small step... for man,
one giant leap for mankind."

This does not make as much sense, as the
contrasting of "man" and "mankind" is not much of a difference, "man" being nearly the same sense as "mankind".

Some have tried to say the "a" got lost in the transmission, but I have heard some decent recordings of it and it does not seem to be there, you don't hear a squelch tail on the radio receiver.

I have seen this quote attributed both ways. Often it is cited as the "scripted" version, but here is the recording:


http://continuouswave.com/whaler/radio/media/oneSmallStep.mp3

Now back to Suzuki engines...

Highwater posted 11-01-2001 12:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
That's neat, Jim.

The next time there is a Whaler rendezvous, if someone with the necessary recording equipment could walk around and record everyone's engine at idle speed, we might get a better appreciation of how some engines are more quiet than others. Not very scientific, but it would add a new (sound) dimension to the forum. And it might help Toad2001 determine if the Yamaha 60hp 4-stroke was significantly more quiet than a Johnson 70hp 2-stroke.

Bigshot posted 11-01-2001 02:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I have had 3 70 oMC's and they are by far one of the noisiest. Damn things sound like diesels. Great egine but has a distinct note to it.
SuburbanBoy posted 11-01-2001 06:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
BS, I believe the Johnson 70 is a triple. I have loved the sound of a triple two-stroke for years (ever since the 55hp Johnson triple came out). That sound when wide open defines performance (to my tin ears).

sub

Highwater posted 11-01-2001 08:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
Harley riders say the same thing until they get on a GoldWing. Silence is golden.
JBCornwell posted 11-01-2001 10:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
"What Mercury 60 EFI??" he asked, belatedly.
There aint no such critter. The ONLY EFI 4 strokes under 115hp are made by Suzuki. They include 40, 50, 60, 70, and 90hp and they all weigh a bit more than comparable carbureted 4 strokes. They also include Evinrude EFI 4 strokes of the above mentioned ratings.

All of the low and mid-range 4 strokes are very good engines. Just don't confuse them with great engines.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

Bigshot posted 11-02-2001 11:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
70's are triples and so is my Yammagucci 90. Yamaha is whisper quiet for a 2 stroke and weighs only 10-15lbs more than the 70.
dgp posted 11-02-2001 02:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
JBCornwell, suggest you see Hyperlink [Moderator's Note: Often these ridiculous URLs for websites built with dynamic content generation are useless and do not link to the intended material. This one does actually seem to work, at the moment, although it may not after some sessions or cookies expire. The Mercury website seems to hide the fact that their 50 and 60 HP 4-strokes are now EFI fuel induction designs--jimh, Moderator]
jimh posted 11-02-2001 08:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
For those still reading this thread, a long one which has wandered a bit, I have to mention that the story about Mr. Gorsky, while a good story, is just that. See http://www.snopes2.com/quotes/mrgorsky.htm for some history on this.
jimh posted 11-02-2001 08:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Opps, sometimes I muck this things up editing them by hand...there...fixed.]
JBCornwell posted 11-03-2001 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Well, By Gar, I take it all back!! This is real news, a US manufacturer getting ahead of it's favorite Nipponese supplier. GO, Brunswick!

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

Kelly posted 11-04-2001 12:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kelly  Send Email to Kelly     
JB, whenever I seen the supplier(Yamaha) to market before the customer(Mercury), two questions come to mind. 1) Is it just part of their total agreement that involves other things that may or may not even be related? or 2) Is the supplier just not willing to put the product on the market yet cause they have not finished testing and fine tuning to meet their own higher standards and to have their name on the product? I don't know, I just wonder. Kelly
jimh posted 11-04-2001 07:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Kelly,

From reading your comments (if I have interpreted them correctly as what you actually wrote is not exactly what you seem to try to be saying)I infer that you have made two assumptions:

--Mercury 4-strokes powerheads are really made by Yamaha;
--Yamaha has higher quality standards than Mercury.

Exactly where is this written down for everyone to see? I'd like to read this, myself.

bigz posted 11-04-2001 08:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Jim, just to help Kelly out, that is if your inference is correct! Please do a search on your own forum this topic on Yam/Merc 4 strokes has been discussed previously -- chuckle -- yes Yamaha "was" providing 4 stroke heads to Mercury at least certain models, haven't a clue and could care less if this is currently the case.

I won't even give the second of your inferred interpretations a thought, it is obvious who has higher standards --- hint they ain't bathed in black paint either --- Z

Now the way I read Kelly, he is saying Yamaha who provides the head units (not lower units) to Mercury that if Yamaha is allowed to bring the product supplied to market first is this some kind of a contract arrangement between the two, ( second part very fuzzy) then #2 --- that Mercury won't bring the product to market until their people have fine tuned and brought it up to their higher standards --- or this could be that Yamaha holds back for further testing to meet their higher standards and allows Mercury to do whatever they see fit to get the product on the market --- take your pick --- haven't a clue --- Z

Kelly posted 11-05-2001 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kelly  Send Email to Kelly     
jimh, it has been my understanding that Yamaha has been providing the power heads for the Mercury and Yamaha 4 strokes for the 50 & 60 models. bigz can correct me if I am wrong, but I think these motors have been released in this order. M 4s carb 50, Y 4s carb 50, M 4s carb 60, M 4s EFI 50, M 4s EFI 60, and Y 4s carb 60. It seems to me that Yamaha motors are released about a year after the Mercury motors of similar design. I do have the impression that Yamaha has higher quality standards. Unless there is some other agreement that provides for mercury to put the motors on the market first, it would seem to me that it is possible that Yamaha elects to do a little more fine tuning or evaluation before the send the product to market. But I could be way off base. Sorry my original message wasn't clear. Kelly
bigz posted 11-05-2001 03:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Kelly, sure your right on the introduction time schedule, never paid much attention to Mercury or Yamaha 4 strokes

I have heard that Mercury now is making all their own 4 stroke power heads -- maybe -- maybe not just a marina rumor -- someone here may know for sure ---

Since Yam provides just the power heads Kelly, really Mercury is actually building the "whole" motor so it would appear that the reason Yamaha holds back intro could be, a. contract agreement (unlikely since just the head) or b. Yamaha doesn't have the "whole" motor refined for manufacturing yet.

I do know that Yamaha like many Japanese firms forecast a specific quantity of each motor and builds them --- until the next go around if they sell out of a certain motor unless a dealer can get one from another dealer your out of luck --- I think you will see Bombardier act in a similar fashion with the J&E motors ---

lhg posted 11-05-2001 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I KNOW that Mercury is no longer using Yamaha heads and valve trains for it's 2002 30-60HP EFI 4 stroke engines. These are now 100% made by Merc, as is the EFI system, and I hear they are excellent. There was some kind of a recall on the previous Yamaha shared 60HP carb version. Not sure if the new 30's and 40's are EFI's. The current 75's, 90's and 115EFI's are still shared with Yamaha.

I assume that the Merc 75 & 90 HP 4 strokes will be EFI's shortly, and that the joint venture with Yamaha is over.

ghost posted 11-05-2001 05:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for ghost    
Found this on Soundings online site,it explains the weird looking intake on top.
Guess it is not just for looks.....i have
been looking at different 4 strokes, thats
why it caught my attention.......


Based on Suzuki’s in-line powerhead found in the company’s 90- and 115-hp 4-strokes, the DF140 features an offset drive shaft for compact size. The 20-inch-shaft model weighs about 410 pounds, the 25-inch-shaft model 420 pounds. The DF140 weighs slightly less than Mercury’s 135-hp OptiMax 2-stroke engine (443 pounds) and just 10 percent more than Suzuki’s own 140-hp 2-stroke, according to weights published by the manufacturers.

The DF140 is geared for boats to about 26 feet, says Larry Vandiver, marketing director for the marine division of American Suzuki Motor Corp. He says a single engine is suitable for an 18-foot runabout, while twin DF140s provide enough kick for a 26-foot power catamaran.

The engine’s performance characteristics, fuel efficiency, and power-to-weight ratio suit a range of boat designs, says Vandiver, “from bay boats to pontoon boats, flats boats to walleye boats, even deep-vee bluewater fishing boats and catamarans.”

The DF140 features a redesigned cowling with a large air induction port designed to increase power. The louvered port and air chamber permit quiet intake of air while helping prevent debris from entering the engine compartment.

Along with multipoint sequential fuel injection, the engine features an oil-cooled, 40-amp alternator and multifunction tachometer with engine performance monitor. The compact, in-line powerhead features a total displacement of 124.7 cubic inches.

The DF140 is expected to begin arriving at dealerships around the end of the year, with suggested retail prices of $10,311 for the 20-inch shaft, $10,374 for the 25-inch shaft, and $10,686 for the counter rotating model.

compounder posted 11-05-2001 06:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
To LHG:

How do you "KNOW?" I've been winterizing my 6 outboards for the last couple of days and darned if I can tell by looking at the powerheads who manufactures them!

I assume you have been to the manufacturing facility and observed these being cast, machined and assembled?

No offense, just wondering how you got to be in the "KNOW."

lhg posted 11-05-2001 06:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
If you check with your local Mercury dealer, he will tell you the 50 & 60 EFI four strokes are now 100% Mercury designed and built - no Yamaha components any longer. Maybe this makes them better engines, maybe worse. Who knows. But I think an EFI system would be a "plus" for such an engine.
compounder posted 11-05-2001 07:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
I hope your Mercury dealer is a lot more on the ball than my local guy. About all he can tell you about a Mercury is that it is painted black.......and he has to glance at the showroom display before he says that!
dgp posted 11-05-2001 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
I know that my 2001 Mercury 50HP 4 stroke is a 100% Mercury designed, engineered and mfg'd product.
SuburbanBoy posted 11-06-2001 12:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
Just to add some more to this discussion. It is my understanding that all of Mercury's outboards UNDER 18hp (both 2-cycle and 4-cycle), are produced by Tohatsu. The same Tohatsu that also manufactures all of Nissan's motors. I also believe that the Tohatsu 2-cycle, fuel injected motors (50hp and 90hp) use a similar fuel injection system to the Mercury. This means that the Tohatsu TLDI air assisted system is similar to the Mercury Optimax system.

Mercury has a lot of influence in the outboard motor arena. They are a very tough competitor to any of the other producers. I would not be suprised to discover that they have manufacturing exchanges with every one of their competitors. For example, in this forum, it was stated that Mercury used Yamaha heads, and in-turn provided Yamaha with lower units. They are believed to also supply lower units to Honda and Tohatsu as well. Their influence is substantial, and their domination is obvious.

sub

jimh posted 11-06-2001 01:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
compounder's remark about his local dealer is really at the heart of much of the preference that people have about engine brands. If your local dealer for an engine brand and you have a good relationship and mutual trust, you are much more likely to be a fan of that particular brand of engine.

It is quite amazing just how much interchange of components there is between these brand competitors. I cannot image that GM would ever source engine parts from FORD.

One area where the Japanese brands seem to have better market penetration is outside of the U.S. I think this is due to the fact that they prepare for foreign markets better than American makers. The Japanese are more likely to have multiple language documentation and literature, have strong export knowledge for shipping to other countries, and have a supply and support system acustomed to dealing with foreign exports/imports and trade issues.

American makers sell the bulk of their engines at home; sales abroad are a small percentage of total sales and don't get the kind of effort and support the Japanese give their overseas markets.

where2 posted 11-06-2001 12:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
Highwater, You want a db meter reading on a Johnson 70Hp versus the 50Hp Yamaha 4-stroke at idle? At various RPM ranges? I think I can arrange that! Hull shouldn't matter...
Highwater posted 11-07-2001 08:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
That would be would be most interesting, Where2. If you could also include a Honda—either the 50 or the 90 hp model—I think that everyone in the market for a new engine would appreciate your efforts. Thanks!
dgp posted 11-07-2001 08:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
In the case of the 50 HP I'm sure the Honda would win out at idle since it's got 3 cylinders while Mercury and Yamaha are using 4 cylinders.
Unless you idle all of the time I'm not sure how important a noise test is at that speed. What would be more relevant would be dbA readings at cruising speed and WOT. The test distance from the engine should be consistent, preferably at the helmsman's ear and the results will differ if he's standing or seated.
Bigshot posted 11-07-2001 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I do not think a 4cyl makes more noise than a 3. It depends on the engine. I have seen many 4cyls that idle louder than 6's, etc.
Highwater posted 11-07-2001 09:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
Today the kids and I were out on the Eno River (near Durham, NC) and there was a new 4-stroke Mercury next to us waiting for a turn on the boat ramp. That engine was so quiet that if I had not seen water coming out of the tell-tail, I would not have known the engine was running. I am surprised that this is not more important to other people. If I were in charge of advertising at Mercury, Honda, etc, I would put decibel ratings on the company web site....
Bigshot posted 11-08-2001 11:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
They get noisy when the throttle goes down, just like an i/o. my bud's teltale makes more noise than the engine when idling. I love them but can't give up my 90 yamaha yet.
where2 posted 11-08-2001 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for where2  Send Email to where2     
Highwater, Only reason I suggested the 50Hp Yamaha and the old 70Hp OMC was because there's one of each sitting at the dock (actually, my 70Hp is on the trailer thanks to Hurricane Michelle's threat over the weekend). Dad is looking for his dB measurements that he made with his '81 70Hp Johnson last spring before he repowered with the 50Hp Yamaha. (Says they might still be around on a scrap of paper near the computer) If he finds them, I'll post them. If not, I'll see what I can do about making new readings.

I agree with those who love the silence of the 4-strokes at idle. Mmmmm, quiet...

Highwater posted 11-08-2001 01:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Highwater    
Thanks, where2. If you are able to post some numbers, you might want to start a new thread so that people will be able to find the information with a keyword search on "noise levels" and/or "decibels" and/or "quiet." In the future, other members may be able to add information on additional engines, so I would not focus on the name of the manufacturers in the subject line. Just a suggestion....

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