posted 10-01-2001 02:06 PM ET (US)            

The new GM DuraMax diesels look awesome. Alison 6 speed automatic. Check out the link above, but I think they achieve close to 20mpg (FAQ) Not bad for 2500

Quiet, smooth and comfortable.

posted 10-01-2001 04:49 PM ET (US)            

I heard an ad on the radio for 0 per cent financing or $3,000 cash back on a Ford product. Business must be way off as a result of the WTC crises. Probably a good time to make a deal.

posted 10-01-2001 06:45 PM ET (US)            

Your Montauk rig should way around 2000
pounds.

This is my third Pathfinder. The first one,
an '87, got 130K miles, the worst that
happened was an electric window winder died.
The second one, the '95 got 130K miles, the
worst that happened was a burned out light
bulb.

posted 10-01-2001 07:27 PM ET (US)            

Just make sure your transmission fluid stays cool.

posted 10-01-2001 08:58 PM ET (US)            

Given the heat in the south, make sure that the truck you get has a lot of cooling for the transmission. On advantage of the heavier vehicles is that the cooling is standard.

By the way, Trailer Life magazine is an excellent source of information on tow vehicles. This month there is a comparison test of small 4 door pickups (Chevy, Toyota, and--I think--Nissan).

posted 10-01-2001 10:48 PM ET (US)            

Quite honestly any decent 4 wheeler, someone that actually goes off road, will have all the mentioned goodies above.

Diesels are made to tow. They get the same mpg towing, not towing, around town or on the highway. They are expensive. They are exempt from emissions testing in most states. I am not sure about California. Worth while if you do a lot of towing, boat, horse trailer, travel trailer or fifth wheel and will not even grunt on a grade, this could be a major consideration. Diesels are mostly offered on 3/4 ton and above.

The new V-8s for the newer trucks are getting better gas mileage with more HP than before. A 1/2 ton with a tow package would be fine for most towing and hills, and give a better everyday ride.

Right now I have an older 1995 Chevy Tahoe with 4WD and tow package with 110,000 miles and still going strong. I also go off road, the Tahoe has an inch higher ground clearance than the Ford Expedition. The Ford Pick-ups I believe have the higher ground clearance than the Chevys. Heck, all the makers have new models now, just don't buy the first year of anything.

posted 10-02-2001 09:51 AM ET (US)            

I would price one and of course drive one…Try the GM Web site.
Buy the way Diesel fuel is a little more expensive around my way, $1.69 this morning compared to Gas $1.39
Not trying to make this a Chevy vs. Ford thing. I have owned both and a Toyota.

posted 10-02-2001 10:34 AM ET (US)            

Our Durango with 5.9L V8, full-time 4WD transfer case, and 3.92 rear axle, is tow-rated at 7350#. It easily pulls our vintage Airstream travel trailer (about 6000# loaded). When I tow our Ventura 16 (about 2500# loaded), it doesn't even know it's there. The Durango has a wheelbase almost as long as a Tahoe or Expedition (which are much larger vehicles) and that really helps towing stability.

I average 12-13 mpg when towing...slightly better around town...in a vehicle that is easy to drive in city traffic and can be parked anywhere.

posted 10-02-2001 01:53 PM ET (US)            

Regarding a 2500 to pull a 22 Outrage. Your probably overdoing it at bit. The 1500 series will pull a 22, or for that matter a 25 Revenge without much problem. I used 1500 series 2wd for a number of years while hauling a 25 Revenge, and a close friend used a 2wd 1500 Surburban to haul his 25 Revenge W/T, that weight even more then mine.

Currently using a 1500 Surburban for towing a 21 Outrage, which is lighter then your 22.

The towing button on the shifter in the new GM lineup is great, by the way. Changes shift points. Don't know if that's an option only available with the towing package, ut at any rate, you'd want the towing package.

posted 10-02-2001 04:34 PM ET (US)            

My lease just expired, and being subject to the two-foot-itus bug *and* the more horsepower and higher torque at lower RPM bug, I had every intention of ordering a Yukon XL 2-wheel with the 8.1 L behemoth engine, figuring with that rig, I could pull up Pikes Peak and never go below 70 and never run higher than 1500 rpm or so...

Anyway, my dealer talked me into a new Denali (1/2 ton), 6-litre with the towing package (in fact it has *everything* - comes that way - only option you can get that it doesn't already have is a sunroof). I picked the new Denali up last week and promptly drove 520 miles up to the North Channel to bring our family boat back home for the winter. It's a 25' Parker Sport Cabin and I figure it goes an *easy* 1500 pounds more than my Outrage on the hoof, maybe more, plus it's a helluva lot wider (9'-6") and a helluva lot taller, both acting to give a way bigger face to the wind while towing.

The Denali towed the Parker WAY better than the Yukon towed the Outrage. The higher shifting points in tow/haul mode are such that you leave a stop light without even knowing you've got 5,000 or 6,000 pounds behind you. I like to run along about 75 mph and I did find that it couldn't sustain that speed in full overdrive (down around 2,000 rpm) without "searching" and dropping into a lower gear until it got up to speed and reverting to highest gear, then slowly losing speed only to kick back into a lower gear again. So I drove in third, about 3,000 rpm, and it never wavered on any hill between Little Current, Ontario and Battle Creek, MI.

I'm looking forward to towing my Outrage with this new rig like it isn't even back there.

posted 10-02-2001 05:35 PM ET (US)            

Given the economy of the diesel engine relative to gas, it will literally pay for itself. I have heard the Chevy S 2500 with duramax diesel engine averages around 20mpg without a load.

posted 10-02-2001 07:55 PM ET (US)         

Sounds like your leaning towards diesel - good choice. My recommendations (all diesels) would be

- a 1 ton if you're going to be adding a camper down the road - 3/4 is fine with no camper (don't think diesel is an option with a 1/2 ton)
- or an Excursion diesel if you don’t require the pickup

Louie

posted 10-02-2001 11:21 PM ET (US)         

Go for the 2500 Duramax. You'll love it and it will last forever.

I have a '99 GMC Suburban 2500 with the 454 cubic inch gas engine. I tow a 5,000 pound trailer (a sailboat) with the truck loaded with six people, a big dog, lots of gear, 4 bikes, etc. No sweat. My truck is so tough I am convinced it will run 15 or 20 years without a major rebuild.

Remember that the rated towing capacity includes the weight of all the people and gear in the truck as well as the weight of the trailer. If you tow 5,000 pounds and your truck is rated to tow 6,000, that means that your family and other gear will probably push you over the limit. My Suburban is rated to tow 10,000 pounds. I think with my boat and all the people and gear I haul, I am around 7,000 pounds over the weight of the vehicle itself, a comfortable margin of safety.

GM builds better trucks than Ford and Chrysler IMO. The way to verify this is to look at the used commercial pick-up truck market (i.e 3/4 and one ton). Also talk to someone who runs a fleet of commercial vehicles. What I found is an almost universal preference in this market for GM and significantly higher resale value for a used GM commercial truck vs. Ford and Chrysler.

If you do some more digging, you will find GM puts a different transmission (the 4L80) in the 2500 and 3500 series trucks than the one in the 1500 series (the 4L60). The 4L60 has its detractors who say it is not engineered for heavy duty towing (sorry kingfish this is the tranny in your new Denali). No problems with the 4L80.

The new Duramax comes with an Allison transmission (Allison is a different company from GM). The Allison is a new thing for GM but Allison has an impeccable reputation in the HD truck market.

One other comment. If I did not need the space and HD hauling capacity of my Suburban, I would seriously look at the full size Toyota trucks (the Sequoia and Tundra). These are well built units with beautiful V8 engines.

posted 10-03-2001 12:32 AM ET (US)            

Gas engines are relatively maintenance free compared to diesels. They also start easier in COLD weather.

There are several maintenance items required on diesels that gas engines do not have (water separator) and they tend to be much more sensitive to fuel quality than do gasoline engines.

posted 10-03-2001 12:57 AM ET (US)            

I have the 5.7L engine, the 3.73 rear-axle, and the heavy duty towing package, which produces a tow rating of 7,000 pounds.

posted 10-03-2001 03:50 PM ET (US)            

The Ford is good and has a proven track record. Future Fords will have CAMLESS technology. Also on the horizon is a V6 diesel.

Dodge has a brand new truck out now and should be the class of the field - except the 1 ton diesel is still the old body style for another year, meaning the oldest and least refined of all current trucks. Watch for a CATERPILLAR connection for the next diesel.

The Duramax/Allison Chevy or GMC is the best riding, best handling, best mileage truck out there. You will not be disappointed. In one or two years, both Ford and Dodge will most likely have a better product, but at the moment, its all GM.

This is not a GM ad, I could acre less which truck you buy, but that's my 2 cents...

posted 10-03-2001 06:10 PM ET (US)            

I agree with everything you said, I just read an article about Ford coming out with a new modular (8 cyl chopped down to 6 cyl) diesel to take the place of the 7.3 International. They claim this new motor will be available in F150 P/Us and E150 vans.

I have owned five trucks with this motor (turbo and natural) including an F350 and an F450 currently, and have had not one major problem with the motors (the trannys are another story).

Jim, if you do go for the diesel, keep in mind the added expense of upkeep (as someone else already stated)The Ford (IH)7.3PS takes 15 quarts of oil. Its $60 to $70 every oil change unless you do it yourself. I don't know about the Chevy, but the increase cost for the diesel in the ford was around $4000.00, correct me if I am wrong, but it will take you 10,000 gallons of gas to make that up at a .40 difference in price between G and D.

posted 10-03-2001 08:53 PM ET (US)         

1. GM is not yet building the Suburban/Yukon/Tahoe in the 2002 model year with the Duramax. There is hope/rumour it may come in 2003. The old style Suburban/Yukon/Tahoe (up to '99) offered the old GM 6.5 litre turbodiesel (the same engine is still found in the Hummer), so there is reason to hope the new Suburban/Yukon/Tahoe will get the new Duramax.

2. The Duramax engine was introduced in the 2500+pick-up/light truck chassis for the 2001 model year. It is actually the product of a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.

3. The Allison transmission is a 5 speed (automatic), not a 6 speed as mentioned above. The reason GM has mated this transmission to the Duramax is because of the massive torque of that engine (over 500 lb/ft). GM felt that its own HD tranny (the 4L80) could not handle the torque of the new Duramax.

4. I don't agree with the comment above that diesels require more maintenance than gas engines. It is true the diesels are very sensitive to water in the fuel, so you have to be religious about fuel filtration. Diesels may require more frequent oil changes (easy to DIY). But basically they are very simple engines which require little other maintenance and will outlast a gas engine by a significant margin. It is also true the economics of a diesel only make sense over the short/medium term if heavy commercial use is involved, because of the significantly higher initial cost.

posted 10-03-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)         

Broken down

Oil $720 (240 / yr)
Fuel filter $120
Tires $900 (changed all six)
Brakes 350
Diff and Tranny Fluids 280 (its a 4x4 so this includes front and rear)

I have a K&N filter, so there are no air filter costs. The only savings (if any) would come from oil and fuel filter changes, but I can't see myself using cheap oil or not replacing the fuel filter. I use Mobile Delvac engine oil and nothing but synthetic in the diffs and tranny.

posted 10-03-2001 10:24 PM ET (US)         

Louie

posted 10-07-2001 10:47 AM ET (US)            

They are rated for 5000lb. (with brakes). Mine has logged about 10,000 miles in the last 3 years with Sunshine III behind, averaging about 15mpg (90+ octane) and cruising easily at 70-75mph where legal, except in steep mountains. The 5speed Auto is excellent at selecting the correct ratio for what is happening. There is no such thing as wheelspin on the steepest, slickest ramp.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

posted 10-08-2001 11:34 PM ET (US)            

If you are going to buy a diesel truck, buy a 2001 model. Apparently, starting sometime around October 2002, the EPA has mandated that all diesel engines sold in the US must use Exhaust Gas Recycling (EGR). This is done in all gas engines. With diesels, it presents a major headache for the manufacturers. They need the intake air to be cool. Cool air is more dense than warm air and therefore, more air is available for combustion and this is critical in a diesel. The problem with EGR is that the intake air is mixed with recycled exhaust which can be much higher than 300 degrees. This causes 3 problems. First, less air is available for combustion because of the density issue. Second, if the engine has a turbo, the turbo is subjected to much higher temperature intake air which turbo manufacturers have not had to account for yet. Third, the engine itself will need to dissipate more heat. The heavy truck manufacturers are all wrestling with this issue right now. They have all spent many years shrinking down the front ends of the trucks to make them more aerodynamic and this has meant smaller radiators. With the new requirement, all new diesels will be faced with overheating issues. You absolutely must be wondering why ford is going to stop production on a great engine like the 7.3 PSD. It is most definitely one hell of an engine! But, they cannot keep it cool enough with the new EGR systems and so they are working on 2 new diesels. A small 6 which I think is around 5L and a small 8 which I cannot remember the displacement of but it is alot smaller than the 7.3. I would not want anything to do with an EGR Diesel engine until at least its 3rd year of production. It will interesting to see what kind of hoops the manufacturers jump through to get rid of the extra heat. Can you spell R-E-C-A-L-L? Here is an optimistic view of the EGR systems. http://www.roadking.com/inside/story.php?sid=339

Also, if you have a diesel, be vigilant about testing the antifreeze regularly. Diesels have an additive in their antifreeze that prevents cavitation within the engine block. The internal vibrations of the diesel cause cavitation in the cooling water and this will literally eat holes in the cooling passages just like cavitation eats a boat propeller. This is nothing new and all diesels are faced with the problem. But, if you buy the litmus paper , check the antifreeze often and add more "additive" as needed, cavitation will not destroy your engine. It's interesting that the big 3 don't put much emphasis on this maintenance. You actually gotta look for it in your owner's manual. http://www.freeautoadvice.com/diesel/cav.html

Also, coming soon to a gas station near you in 2006, as ordered by the EPA, is "Low sulfur" diesel. http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/ulsd/ The oil companies have been screaming bloody-murder about this because they claim they don't have the technology to efficiently make low sulfur full. The EPA, in their infinite wisdom, said "Bull" and they approved the mandate. The oil companies are saying that this could almost double the price of diesel but I doubt it. The question is, how much will diesel go up because of the "low sulfur" mandate?

On the positive side, if you properly care for a diesel engine, it will last easily over 200K miles. There is no match for their torque and horsepower and because of this they are perfect for towing. It seems like the harder you work a diesel, the longer it lives. Your biggest problem with a good diesel may very well be trying to find a transmission that it won't destroy within 80K miles.

posted 10-09-2001 09:25 PM ET (US)            

I had a O92 series Detroit in a Peterbuilt and after the first hundred thousand miles you filled them up with oil and checked the fuel. Not literally, but they were know for leaking oil, most mechanics gave up on the gaskets and just rebuilt them with silicone.

posted 10-09-2001 10:25 PM ET (US)            

The aux gen set on subs is 1300kw. It's powered by a Fairbanks-Morse 12 cyclinder 24 piston dual crankshaft diesel. It turns 850 rpm at full load. Now that's TORQUE.

posted 10-10-2001 03:04 PM ET (US)            

The local Chevy dealer priced himself out by not giving any flexibility on the S2500 duramax/allison tranny combination. $42K! I did test drive her, and she's a beaut, but not to be at that price. Since I have never had a problem with my Toyota trucks, I decided to try the new Tundra. The I Force engine they come with is the same engine you would find in a Lexus. 245 Horsepower (250 outside of California), 4 speed auto. Maximum towing weight-7000 lbs. Took iot for a ride, and it felt just right. Lots of giddyup! Since this dealer is willing to negotiate, I think I have myself a deal. Fully loaded the SR5 model is going to cost me around 30K. The mileage will be about the same as my 6 cylinder T-100, 17 and 14 mpg.

posted 10-10-2001 09:48 PM ET (US)         

A great choice of truck, IMO. The engine is superb and the Toyota build quality will help it last for years.

posted 10-17-2001 07:40 PM ET (US)            

Great site and I thank you for hard work in maintaining it. Now, I own a Tundra V-8 2wd extra cab and have 42 k on it. I tow a Dauntless 16, about 2,800 lbs including trailer. I usually pass others pulling boats on my way back from the coast. Its like I really don't have a boat back there. No problems breaking at all. The only time I know I have a boat back there is when I hit a bump and I can feel a little bit of tongue weight.

posted 09-09-2003 12:11 AM ET (US)            

If you want to debate 2004 truck, please start a new thread.

posted 12-19-2003 11:01 PM ET (US)            

For those of with smaller towing packages, the long anticipated Jeep Liberty with Mercedes 2.8 litre diesel should kick butt! The current 3.7 litre gasoline engine is rated to 5K. I understand the diesel will give more than 75 lbs. of torque than a 4.0 litre. Delivery in 2004, October or November as 2005s. And, 25 mpg.

I'm buying one.

Soggy.