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Author Topic:   Outrage electronics
prxmid posted 10-27-2001 09:53 PM ET (US)   Profile for prxmid   Send Email to prxmid  
I recently purchased a 1999 Outrage 18 with no electronics. Over the winter in plan to put on a fishfinder and vhf. Also want a knot meter. I am considering the Raytheon 365 fishfinder and the Raytheon 45 VHF. Any suggestions. Also any other electronics people find invaluable. I find it hard to justify a GPS
acseatsri posted 10-27-2001 11:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
Unless you do a lot of lake boating, the GPS is also a necessity. It can also do double duty as a knotmeter. If you're a fisherman, it helps set up precise drifts over the same spot time after time. I have a chartplotter on mine, but it's probably overkill. The previous owner put it on. Lastly you might want to have a handheld VHF as a backup to your primary radio.
Ed Stone posted 10-27-2001 11:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Hey Prxmid,
First,congratulations on the new Whaler!
I had the 365 on a previous whaler.
I believe that comes with speed and Temp.
I also had the apelco vhf.Both worked well
I never had a problem with them.
I have a tight area for electronics so
I went with the following units:
Garmin 168 gpsmap/sounder
Standard Eclipse+ VHF
Standard MST660 Stereo/CD with Bose speakers
At some point I would like to get a backup
handheld VHF and handheld gps and a Epirb.
Keep us informed on your 18 Outrage.
Good luck!
Ed Stone
jimh posted 10-28-2001 12:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I like Ed Stone's choices, maybe better than the ones I just bought myself!

Here are my recommendations:

RADIO: There are three tiers of radios: non-DSC low-end, DSC mid-line, DSC top-line.
DSC (Digital Selective Calling) is a feature that probably 99% of boaters don't use at the moment, and may never use, but almost every radio has it these days.

I have the mid-line ICOM radio, sells for about $180. I had the top-line Standard SPECTRUM, but I traded it in; it drove me crazy with the way the channel select knob and the "steps" of the volume control worked. I didn't need the Hailer, the intercom, all the extra stuff, either. I am beginning to think I won't need DSC, too.

For a SONAR I would strongly recommend getting a combination SONAR/GPS. I wish I had done this as now I have too many boxes of electronics on the console. Getting a combination saves room and makes the console much cleaner. Unless you need the absolute best-in-class SONAR for fishing (like a commercial charter guide might want), the combo unit will be fine as a SONAR.

The GPS units are all now trending toward chart-plotting, but the little secret of this chart plotting business is the expense. I was drolling over the Lake Michigan chart that kingfish just got for his chart-plotting GPS, then I discovered that the electronic chart cost more than my whole GPS rig!

So I'd get a GPS-SONAR combo and not worry too much about its chart plotting capabilities unless you always boat in the same place and one $99 electronic chart will be all you'll ever need.

I'll just give you an example of these charts: for our 9-day cruise up Georgian Bay I got all the government issued small craft charts for the trip--which is one big bundle of charts--for about $100. If I had bought the electronic versions of these charts it would have cost me TEN TIMES that price. Plus, as we travelled along the route I was annotating the paper charts with notes and comments--can't do that with the electronic ones very easily (if at all).

I am partial to LOWRANCE SONARs because I like their transducers, but at the moment their product line looks like it is on its last legs for most of the SONARs and they will (or ought to) have some new models out soon.


kingfish posted 10-28-2001 08:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     

I must have misled you in some way about the cost of my charts ("...ten times as much...); the number of dollars you are talking about is close to the combined cost of my Lake Michigan, Lake Huron and Florida and the Keys charts together.

I have a Garmin 235 chart plotter/fish finder/DGPS on my Outrage 22' (and on our Parker 2520), and I like it a *lot*. The initial investment for the hardware was a little over a grand, but a G-card for the entirety of Lake Huron (includes North Channel, Georgian Bay and some distance, not sure how far, down the Detroit River), is either $300 or $400. Not peanuts, I know, but but it sure is slick and easy.

Having said that, particularly due to the fact that as technology progresses systems become obsolete and eventually are no longer supported by the manufacturers, even $300 to $400 seems like too much money. The Garmin 235 as an example, along with the G-charts, have been supplanted in Garmins product line, although Garmin is still supporting both.

The detail on these things is amazing, right down to the numbered navigation aids, bottom detail, visual landmarks, visible representation of slips in many Marinas, as well as data (services, phone numbers, transient dockage space, etc.) for those Marinas. I don't have radar, and when I got swallowed up by fog during my North Channel run this summer outside of Drummond and Cockburn Islands, my DGPS/sonar and G-chart system was worth way more to me than what I paid for them, no question. But $300 to $400 bucks a pop for those charts sure seems like the technology is being priced by what they can get for it rather than by what it costs them to produce it.

Ahhh, Capitalism...


jimh posted 10-28-2001 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You must have a better deal with the g-chart than with the C-NT charts. The C-NT charts are about $200/each, and to get the series for Georgian Bay from Midland to Manitoulin you need to buy five of them!


prxmid posted 10-28-2001 11:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for prxmid  Send Email to prxmid     
Most of my boating is on the Chesapeake Bay probably with 5-10 miles of Annapolis. Is GPS overkill. Can I get one instrument with GPS, fishfinder & speed/depth that will fit on an 18 Ooutrage?
kingfish posted 10-28-2001 11:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Yes, there are a number of them and in a number of price ranges. Get on the West Marine or BoatUS or Consumer Marine Electronics websites (there are others, too) and poke around. Look for "Chart Plotter/Sounders" and take a good look at the Garmin 168.
Dan posted 10-28-2001 06:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
I've got the Raytheon 365 fishfinder/temp/speed, Standard Intrepid Vhf, Standard CP150 Gps/waas chartplotter, chip for local waters, and 12V accessory outlet. Sometimes the 365 loses reading due to turbulence. All in all, I'm very happy with the electronics. Of course music would be nice too. Oh yeah, I wish Raytheon made their stuff in black instead of that ugly gray color.
Ed Stone posted 10-28-2001 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Hey prxmid,
As far as speed goes,any gps will give you
the most accurate speed.
There is lots of choices for combo units.
My first gps was a garmin, so I chose the
garmin combo that will download detailed
information from software. Pick yourself
up a equipment catalog from your local
marine parts store and start dreaming.
Good luck!
Ed Stone
reelescape1 posted 10-28-2001 08:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
If you must have a hand-held VHF (you should!) should consider an E-Float!!
alan posted 10-29-2001 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for alan  Send Email to alan     
Garmin 168. I did a lot of research before purchasing and could not be happier. Since I have bought mine two friends also bougtht the 168. Easy to use and loaded. In November a Bluechart CD will be available. Don't leave home without it.
Tsuriki BW posted 10-29-2001 09:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

I just upgraded all my electronics and have the following for sale.

Furuno 667 color CRT FF (new still in box)
Humminbird Wide 3D Paramount FF

Garmin 210 (older but works great) Map GPS
Garmin 126 (built in antenna) GPS

Standard Eclipse + VHF

If you are interested in buying good equipment but a lot less that new retail, e.mail me.


Whalerdan posted 10-30-2001 01:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
Since everyone is talking about electronics... Has anyone ever seen a power amplifier that could be used with a hand held VHF radio? Please don't persecute me, but currently I don't carry a radio. Always have my cell phone and seldom am out of range for it, but I would like a radio in case something goes wrong and weather is approaching. A handheld seems nice and simple, but I worry about the range. I don't want to have to have an antenna up all the time (Montauk) since the boat is small and I don't want to be climbing over it all the time. I would be nice if I could find a power amp and a portable antenna I could put up and down quickly if the range of the handheld was insufficient.
jimh posted 10-30-2001 08:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I doubt that there is a legal (type accepted by FCC) power amplifier for the VHF Marine Band (156 MHz). However, there are plenty of these made for use with Amateur Radio 2-Meter transmitters (146 MHz) which would probably work. The tuning of these devices is fairly broad, so although optimized for a different band, they would still work at reduced efficiency in the Marine Band.

Use of such a device would be illegal for a Recreational VHF Marine radio, but it would work.

That said, I would strongly recommend against that approach. A fixed-mount, quality, type-accepted VHF Marine radio would be cheaper, not a violations of the rules, and give much better performance.

The biggest problem with marine radios is being able to hear them while underway. You always need a larger speaker.

Tsuriki BW posted 10-31-2001 12:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

Like Jim, I would advise against the amp. Not only legally but it will not, IMO, address your concern.

A 5 watt handheld has plenty of power for almost all local situations. You need to be able to "hear" the other party, whether the USGC, other boats, etc. A good quality gain antenna is a much better investment. Do a bit more research on this and I think you will be more satisfied than just trying to be a "bigger blast" with an amp.


prxmid posted 10-31-2001 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for prxmid  Send Email to prxmid     
This was my first post on this site. Replies have been hugely helpful and informative. I've totally rethought what I'm going to do. Thanks for the help
Tsuriki BW posted 11-01-2001 02:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

Hope all the posts were helpful and you will let all know what you have decided to do and the result.

This is a great site with an unbelievable amount of information on any and all subjects. The members here are great. Enjoy, learn and contribute...


jimh posted 08-31-2005 05:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[This ancient thread was revived to append a notice of WANTED TO BUY, which has been removed. Thread closed. Use MARKETPLACE for posting notices of WANTED TO BUY.]

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