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Author Topic:   Spark plugs-how much$
george nagy posted 11-26-2001 02:49 PM ET (US)   Profile for george nagy   Send Email to george nagy  
A friend that has 2001 fichts just paid $12 each for plugs. I've heard optimax plugs are $22 each. I think my 1987 150 evinrude's plugs ar around $3 each. I'm wondering two things; first how much are plugs for a 4 stroke suzuki 140 or 115? and what plugs run in a conventional 150 johnson carb?

I have read past posts on the economy of 4 vs 2 strokes and opt-ficht as well and at $60-$132 every 100 hrs or so for plugs might not make up for lost fuel economy to convention.

Bigshot posted 11-26-2001 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
4 strokes should be the same as car plugs. I pay about $2 for NGK for my Yamaha. Go to an autoparts store.
JFM posted 11-26-2001 03:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
George, Champion makes marine grade 2 stroke plugs and so does NGK. They both cost 2X's what an auto plug costs. They are made out of stainless and claim to reduce noise to electronics. Regards, Jay P.S. You can look them up on Champions web site.
SuburbanBoy posted 11-26-2001 03:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
This topic was discussed here (the forum) earlier this year. Try this spot for NGK's at a discount. BTW, as I recall, stay away from Champion was the summary of a previous thread.

www.clubplug.net/
and for technical info:
www.ngksparkplugs.com


sub

jimh posted 11-26-2001 03:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Stainless steel doesn't suppress noise. Resistors in the plugs suppress noise.

The NGK Marine plugs with resistors are priced at ridiculous levels, like $8/plug compared with NGK's $3/plug non-resistor.

I usually change the plugs in the spring, after restarting the engine and running all the winter fogging oil out on the old plugs.

SuburbanBoy posted 11-26-2001 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
The link noted above has NGK plugs for the Merc 200 Optimax (similar to your $22 plugs) for $11 each (NGK number PZFR5F-11). Standard resistor plugs for my low tech Tohatsu are about $1.82. I change them frequently, and carry two full sets (six plugs) in my boat at all times. I have encountered fouled plugs, which did not appear to be fouled. If I take a plug out, a new, gapped plug goes back in.

Also, ALWAYS USE ANTI-SIEZE and TORQUE YOUR PLUGS!!!

sub

Clark Roberts posted 11-26-2001 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
My main reason for buying a high mpg engine (135 Merc Optimax) was to increase range with given amount of fuel, NOT to save any money! Some of the places I cruise are absent of any fuel for a hundred or more miles and range is all important. I can now plan a trip of approx 400 miles without a fuel stop. I don't run around with tanks topped off as it's carrying a lot of extra weight but when I do fill up (76 gals) it's great to know that I have the added freedom of movement. The cost of engines these days is, to me, so high that proper maint cost.. (oil, plugs, filters etc) is in the noise level. Beam me up... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
Dick posted 11-26-2001 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
The reason for the high price for some of the plugs for the new engines is because they are running Platinums for longer life and better performance.
I just changed the platinums in my F-150 after 108000 miles, at $10.00 each that is pretty cheap when you figure $80.00 worth of plugs lasted that long.
You can cross the platinums down to standard plugs and save a buck but they aren't going to last long.
JFM posted 11-26-2001 04:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Sub, I feel the same about Champion but couldn't find Marine 2 stroke NGK's thanks for the sites. Jim, do you think it's worth paying the premium for stainless? Is it me or do they run better. Regards, Jay
Dick posted 11-26-2001 07:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
The SS plugs that are on the market don't run any better than a non SS plug, they are just more corrosion resistant. NGK plugs are not SS they are zinc chromate plated and I won't use anything else.
blackdog posted 11-27-2001 09:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I don't care for champion plugs either but for a Ficht its the only choice you have.


Blackdog

Whalerdan posted 11-27-2001 09:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
What about splitfires? Anyone try them or know any reason not too?
Bigshot posted 11-27-2001 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Splitfires, they still in business? Biggest waste of money next to Slick 50. SS plugs are great on I/O's and inboards used in Salt. They do not fall apart because many boats go seasons without plug changes. On O/B's I run Joe standrd plugs. I have also run Champions in all my OMC's and never had problems.
Clark Roberts posted 11-27-2001 05:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
Re: splitfires (all multiple tip plugs); The spark always jumps to the nearest ground point (there's only one nearest point!). Spark doesn't alternate between points or fire on both... so the split ground is just a gimmic.. other aspects of plug may make it better than some single ground plugs.. etc..etc..etc...etc... clark.. The Old Man and the Sea
Whalerdan posted 11-29-2001 09:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
Clark - Just an observation, not to say what Splitfire claims is true. - I agree that the largest spark would be to the closest ground, but I think, maybe, there would be secondary spark to other sharp points where charges would be present. I say this because I remember a National Geographic article on lightning. I remember a picture of lightning hitting a tree. The largest arc was at the top but there were several other arcs going to all the branches.

Now, in the case of a spark plug, would these secondary arcs be significant to ignite fuel? I surely couldn't say, but it is kind of interesting. I probably wouldn't use split fire anyway due to the cost.

JohnAz posted 11-29-2001 11:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for JohnAz  Send Email to JohnAz     
I live on fresh water,,,still havew the original plugs in my 40hp Johnson 20 years old..also in my Mercury IO V-6 600hrs...I do rotate plugs on my Polaris PWC,,,but use the same 6 plugs,,,no problems
David Ratusnik posted 11-29-2001 06:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
John- I have a tricked up Seadoo GTI, how do you rotate and/or clean the plugs? How long do the cleaned up plugs last. I'm running NGK whatevers, and the ski eats them every 30 hours. I can tell be/c one cylinder dies. Put in a new set and I'm seeeeeeet. Thanks David
compounder posted 11-29-2001 07:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
John & David,
I can tell you from experience that you don't want to mention PWC's on this board. The "powers that be" will assume you are some sort of miscreant just because your boat is smaller than theirs.

You see, because they don't own one and don't understand how to derive pleasure from the use of one, they believe your small, inboard powered boat should be banned or somehow restricted in it's use of the waterways.

Best to discuss only "real" boats here!

David Ratusnik posted 11-29-2001 08:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
compounder- Sometimes the guys are a bit narrow but that's ok, I've picked up tons of info for use with my 22' Outrage. Yes, we run a jet ski as well. I know how to post but thought I might pick up a quick pointer re plugs for Seadoooooo. Could save me a few bucks. Jump in- have a thick skin-- they are OK. David
compounder posted 11-29-2001 10:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
Thanks David.....my skin is plenty thick though!

Enjoyed the photos of your Outrage. Nice Boat!

I think John was referring to rotating the plugs by installing a new set, cleaning the old ones and re-using them later. I buy NGK plugs for my GTI at the local discount auto parts store (regularly $l.59, on sale $0.99) and don't find it worthwhile to clean them. A new pair once a season seems to do nicely.

David Ratusnik posted 11-29-2001 11:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
compounder- I've been doing the same. Right, probably not enough to be saved. D
george nagy posted 11-30-2001 09:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
So in conclusion I have gathered that some don't like champion plugs and others reuse thier ski doo plugs. I'm still not sure if the new yamaha, merc, and bombardier carb 2 strokes and some basic fuel injected models use regular $2 plugs. As well I'm still in the dark on 4 strokes. I had a 9.9 yamaha 4 stroke and it used ngk plugs that were not too expensive so I will suppose that the larger horsepower yamaha and suzuki use standard $2 plugs as well. If I have jumped to any conclusions on this please correct me. I think I will call the dealers and ask, hopefuly I will get a straight answer.
Thanks George
Tsuriki BW posted 11-30-2001 10:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
george....

If you get a straight answer from your dealer, let us know....

Tsuriki

george nagy posted 11-30-2001 12:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
You know it is funny but the dealers near me can never get thier stories straight. I'm affraid that if I ask about plugs for a new motor they will smell that I am considering purchasing a new motor and will say they run on only the most affordable oil, gas, and plugs. You see in my area everyone is a high pressure salesman. Thank God for the internet, I do a great deal of research now and often order online or by catalog. You know here not many places will give you a sea trial on a $40k priced boat without a major deposit that who knows if refundable. I was hoping someone on this website that has a 4 stroke yamaha/ suzuki 115 could tell me how much thier plugs cost.
george nagy posted 11-30-2001 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
Big shot are those $2 plugs for a 4 stroke or a 2 stroke?
baltica posted 05-22-2002 07:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for baltica  Send Email to baltica     
My 2001 Merc 90 hp engine needs special NGK BUZHW-2 plugs. besides costing about 5x more, how are these different than the regular BUHW-2 plugs I used to have in my older (1986) Merc 90?
whalernut posted 05-22-2002 08:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
I have used them all in my 1975 85h.p. Johnson, and it prefers Denso brand at $1.49 Jack
jimh posted 05-22-2002 10:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Try http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/marine/outboardstandard.asp for comments on resistor -vs- non-resistor and why NGK resistor plugs are priced like gold.

Dick posted 05-23-2002 12:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
jimh
Great thread to bring up. Spark plugs are in an area that many need more information to gain understanding of the differences.

I agree that the price of plugs for the Opti engines requiring platinums is out of line. In our shop I sell NGK resistor plugs for $3.50 to $6.00 depending on my cost, at a fair markup. Some plug configurations like surface gap cost more than standard electrode. NGK list would be $6.00 to $9.00. If anyone is selling any brand of plugs at suggested list price they are either not buying right or are taking you to the cleaners. I buy my NGK from Mercury and Champion from Bombardier in both cases they are cheaper than buying from the local automotive wholesale house which sells to me at "jobber" the lowest price to anyone.
Marine spark plugs are still an automotive part and the buying structure is the same. Jobber, the lowest price, dealer the next price & list. If you have to buy at dealer you have to sell at list, if you buy at jobber you can sell at dealer.
Wild example:
Pay Jobber $1.30 Sell for $2.75
Pay Dealer $2.75 Sell for $5.75
Of cource there are allways discounters where a better price is available.
If you are buying from me or your local marine dealer you will pay a little more than the discounter because I have it on the shelf and you get it today.

daverdla posted 05-23-2002 08:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
Also on the NGK website is the answer on multiple ground plugs.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/cars_trucks_suvs/multipower.asp
Just like Clark said.
Dave
jimh posted 05-23-2002 08:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Two more points on the NGK plugs:

--the NGK "resistor" plug (Z-suffix) is different from the usual resistor plug in that it has less resistance and instead uses a small inductance to suppress radio frequency generation;

--although NGK is originally a Japanese company, they have a manufacturing operation here in the US and make many of the plugs in this country. (Being raised in Detroit, I tend to be somewhat sensitive to Japanese imports, as you might imagine.)

I found their website had great information, particularly things I had not read before about the importance of proper torque in installation of the plugs. For years I have used my Craftsman 3/8-rachet and my right hand as my torque wrench when changing plugs, but now I think I perhaps should invest in something more accurate.

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