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Author Topic:   Trim Tabs for 22-Outrage
David Ratusnik posted 12-05-2001 06:27 PM ET (US)   Profile for David Ratusnik   Send Email to David Ratusnik  
Gentlepersons- I am shopping for a set of 9x12" Lenco electrostat trim tabs. Boaters'World and Overtons want $450 for the complete kit. Any ideas that save significant dollars. Thanks David
lhg posted 12-05-2001 06:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Nobody beats Shoreway Marine catalog prices!
They are $427.50, catalog #13329, page 47.
800-443-5408. This is probably getting close to bottom line pricing, unless you know somebody in the business who can get you wholesale pricing.

Incidentally, the catalog shows the 9" chord length, 12" width tabs are recommended for boats 14'-16'. For a 22 Outrage they are recommending either 9 x 18's($441) or 12 x 18's($459).

kingfish posted 12-05-2001 08:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
David-

Expand the repairs and mods section of the forum out to one year and scroll down to "trim tabs - hydraulic or electric" on 5/31/01 and "Another question..." directly below it on the same date (if you haven't already ) for a pretty lengthy discussion on Lenco's on an Outrage 22 (mine).

Your hull pretty much limits you to 12" width, and tabs with a 12" cord will work fine for you; mine do. 18" cord seems like it would be more of a good thing, but it might be overkill.

I have e-mailed you a couple of shots of my set-up; let me know if I can be of any help.

kingfish

David Ratusnik posted 12-05-2001 08:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Guys- I appreciate the input on price and size. Kingfish- My mechanic and I took a Bennett 12"x9" (width 12") and you are correct the 12" is about it. On an 86 OR there is a vertical ridge running up the back of the transom that would not permit flush attaching the cylinder, so 12" is it. Actually, 12" mounts nice and wide so I think I should get real good action from the tab. I have sort of settled on Lencos be/c I do not want to drill the transom which Bennetts would pretty much require-I am supporting alot of weight off the back on a bracket with a 225. Would you be concerned about drilling my transom (see pics on my boat in most current Cetecea)???? Bennetts still appeal abit since they make a tab with turned down edges that provide better action than standard straight flush tabs. Tell me what you think. I appreciate you expertise. I have reviewed all tab information back 2 yrs but still go back and forth over two major makers. bigZ's experience with Bennetts really messed me up-went with Lenco's. Opinions?? Thanks David
David Ratusnik posted 12-05-2001 08:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Kingfish-Found your thread. I'm in the review process. Tx D
kingfish posted 12-05-2001 09:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
I felt the advantage of not having to deal with hydraulics or losing space to a hydraulic pump far outweighed any gain from a turned down edge on the tabs. You'll have to make your own mind up about whether you reinforce your transom or not (that would be an issue with either electric or hydraulic); I reinforced where the actuator comes back to the transom, but I did not reinforce down where the tabs themselves attach. I think what I did is OK, and it is even possible the upper reinforcemsnt was not necessary, though Chuck Bennett at BW recommended that both places be reinforced.

So far as drilling your transom is concerned, when you look at the photos I sent, you'll notice the Lenco electric cables disappear into my transom. You can drape them over the top of the transom, but I didn't want to clutter things up. Personal choice. I drilled over-size holes all the way through my transom, scrounged out the foam around the holes inside the transom, filled them with epoxy, then drilled the correctly sized holes for the cable through the epoxy, so there was no way for water to get inside the transom. The actuator bracket covered the exposed epoxy on the outside and I used clamshells to cover the epoxy and route the cables on the inside.

David Ratusnik posted 12-05-2001 09:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Ok Kingfish the thread was impressive. What a job. Result was fantastic. I learned that 12 x 12" Lencos worked nicely on the 22'OR. A couple questions- 1) I'm thinking that the electric lines could run over the transom and down to the cylinders, not thru the transom-Ok? Sort of like the line to the depth/fish finder? Yes/No? 2)Do I have to go thru all the reinforcement (teak etc) to the transom or can I just screw these tabs in? Thanks for your advice. David
David Ratusnik posted 12-05-2001 09:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Kingfish- We passed in the night. Your note above answers all. Thanks David
swede5 posted 12-06-2001 04:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for swede5  Send Email to swede5     
Dave, I put the Lenco tabs on my 1986 revenge in about May this year. They made a significant difference. I'm curious, is the transom on the O/R similar to the revenge? I am assuming that your looking at the screw-drive ( for lack of a better or more accurate name). Mine are 12x12 and you should not need more than that. Mine were bought through Mesco.
David Ratusnik posted 12-06-2001 06:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Swede- Thanks for the thumbs up on Lencos. I've settled on 12 x 12" 's. Glad to hear they work well on your Revenge. Now, I shall shop- maybe I'll find a deal soon, or later. Hey, that 15x17 (I believe) prop in garage sale might not be bad for you. Make an offer. Probably as good as anything new for 3 times the price you might pay. I am not familiar with transom of Revenge model. On an OR there is a ridge of glass running from the bottom of the boat to the top of the transom-sticks out about 1/2 ". It would get in the way of mounting anything bigger than a 12" width. Keeep on boating. Thanks David
David Ratusnik posted 12-10-2001 07:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
I'm in my shopping mode. 12 x 12" Lenco tabs kit sells for $369 from The Outdoor Center, Chapin, South Carolina off the web. Seems like a good price for the hardware. Has anyone had a bad experience with this outfit. They posted an 800 number on the site. I called but got nothing but phone mail run around. Wanted to ask about warranty on Lenco's. Any thoughts. Thanks David
David Ratusnik posted 12-19-2001 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
well, I pulled the trigger on the trim tab issue. First, I spoke with a fellow at Bennett Marine in south FLA about my boat -- seemed to know 22' OR's. Finally, decided upon the new M-120 Sport Tabs (also known as "batwings"). They fix on the transom 10" with the cord running out to 12". The tab itself is not perfectly flat but wing-like, plus turned down at the edges. The Bennett fellow claims they are as or more effective then 12 x 12"s. I like the 5 year warranty plus ability to easily fix any broken part with the Bennett system. FYI, I picked them up thru OnLine Marine. Will be drop shipped from Bennett- Total $406 (includes shipping). Thanks for all your help. David
David Ratusnik posted 01-13-2002 07:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
lhg-kingfish-swede: The purpose of this post is to sort of get back on my trim tab experience. The gentlemen referenced helped me thru this experience with their expertise. What I finally did was order a set of Bennett Sport Tabs (known as Batwings). Apparently these are the latest tech from Bennett- I spoke with Bennett in South FLA over the phone. My boat an 86' 22' OR might have been fit with 12"x 9"'s, 12"x12"'s, or the new 10"x 12" Batwings. I went with the new tech batwings. The tabs were drop shipped from Bennett via OnLine Marine. Today the wife, kids and myself went out on the ICW to try them out. Killer. Again, these new batwing tabs are 10" cord by 12" length. According to Bennett they control water like a 12"x 12" yet the 10" cord gives one a bit more stern to fit the tab. The kit comes with the whole nine yards but one problem happened, the cylinders were too short so my mechanic swapted out a regular set of cylanders for the ones that were abit too short. Anyone fitting a 22'Whaler with these new batwings tabs needs to maker certain Bennett includes the standard (like for 12x 12's) cylinders in the 10"x12" batwing kit. The fit for these tabs is perfect, no problem with the transom ridge on the 80's Whaler. This p.m. we spent a couple hours playing with the new tabs. Dropping them down, slamming the OR into forward resulted in a fabulous hole shot. The wife and kids noted immediately the difference. Anyway, I want to thank the gentleman noted above for walking my mind thru the decision process on these tabs. Thanks guys David
kingfish posted 01-14-2002 10:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
David-

Glad to hear everything worked out. Where did you put the hydraulic pump?

kingfish

Chap posted 01-14-2002 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chap  Send Email to Chap     
Hello,
David, did you reinforce the transom at all?

Thanks
Chap

David Ratusnik posted 01-14-2002 01:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
My mechanic put the pump under the starboard gunwale. It's about a foot to foot and a half in front of the fuel/water filter on the boat. It does not compromise the rod holder in the gunwale but does compromise the top (of 3) rod holder under the gunwale. In my case this makes minimal difference since I use the number 2 and 3 (bottom) holders for a couple gafs (was not using the top one anyway). The transom did not have to be reinforced. The holes were drilled for the tubing to the cylinders and I am happy to say: yielded no water. The transom appears to be dry. The thing I like about these new Bennett Batwings is that they can be lowered way, way down under the lower hull line. The standard sized cylinder when hooked up to the top of the tab yields quite a deep displacement when extended all the way down. Pops the boat out of the hole in a big hurry. I'm looking forward to the water temp improving in order to see how wakeboarding is impacted. I have a neighbor who owns a 22'OR (89) fit with 12"x9" tabs. I'm looking forward to lining the two boats up in order to get a rough feel for the difference in the 2 types of tabs. So far I highly recommend this latest in Bennett technology. David
Peter posted 01-14-2002 02:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
My hydraullic pump was put in a Whaler battery box at the stern.
bigz posted 01-14-2002 02:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Report back Dave in about 6 to 8 months on the durability issues. Z
David Ratusnik posted 01-14-2002 03:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Pete- What year is your OR. I don't think my 86 is cut so that a battery box can fit in the stern. If you look at the stern in photolog pics 45, my space probably is more limited than yours. My pump is covered on top by the gunwale and in the back by a piece or starboard. This weekend I am going to cover the inner exsposure with another small piece of starboard. The posterior exposure where the lines run out of the pump will have to remain open. BigZ, I'll get back on my experiences with reliability. David
lhg posted 01-14-2002 03:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I just noticed that Whaler's new 27 Outrage comes with factory installed electric trim tabs.
David Ratusnik posted 01-14-2002 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Interesting observation. I don't know if that means electronic tabs are the future or what. I spent a good solid month talking with many experienced tab owners. The problem with electronic tabs from my perspective was reliability and warrantee. Lenco does a year. If the tab goes bad it's trash. Not so with kBennett's. Parts are available to fix that which is broken. They do a 5 year warrantee and good mechanics have been putting them back together for years. I finally came down on the side of new tech Bennnett design (sport tab/batwings) with old tech engineering-hydraulics for past 20 yrs. I know a couple verry, very experienced tab owners on my canal on Merritt Island, FLA who think I made a reasonable decision. We shall see. Keep you posted. The (my) mechanic who installed the tabs is the best in Port Canaveral by far, so at least I know they are in properly. Time will tell re reliability. We love their action. David
Peter posted 01-14-2002 07:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
David,

I have an '86 Revenge but the stern area is identical to that of your Outrage. The hydraulic pump in the battery box, two batteries and the oil injection tank are positioned forward of the motor well splash wall. Contrary to my set up, I noticed that your stern area is very uncluttered. However, I have the optional stern knee bolster (any body know the proper name for this option?) that spans the rear of the cockpit where the stern seat usually goes so the clutter actually isn't very noticeable. I believe the Bennett tabs on my Revenge are the sport tabs. They have twin hydraullic actuators. Probably overkill but that's the way the Revenge came when I bought it. The've worked perfectly so far.

David Ratusnik posted 01-14-2002 07:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Peter- Thanks for the info on your stern set up. There is an upside and downside to most things in boating. My pump is abit more exsposed than yours. I suspect the person who went to the trouble to install dual cylinders on the tabs also took care with the boat. Your tab set up seems fail safe. Good luck. David
jimh posted 01-15-2002 01:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Moved thread to here from MARKETPLACE; changed topic to better reflect discussion.]
Tabman posted 01-15-2002 09:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tabman  Send Email to Tabman     
As you can imagine I found this thread quite interesting. I have passed on David's information regarding using the longer actuators for the OR's transom to our client service personnel so they may better help Outrage owners in the future.

If any one is installing M120s and needs the longer actuators to better fit the transom, all they need do is contact our Client Service Department and we will arrange a no cost swap. We can even send the actuator out before getting the old ones back so we do not hold up the installation process.

I hope this helps. I learn an awful lot by hanging out here!

Tom McGow
Bennett Marine

David Ratusnik posted 01-15-2002 11:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Tabman- Interesting to me to have you following this thread. I do not know who I spoke with at Bennett before I ordered but what you have posted will help others with a proper fit. John Larson, Beach Marine, in Port Canaveral fit my tabs on the 22' OR. The cylinders were too short (bass boat like according to him) for a proper fit on the Whaler. Over the years he has fit a number of Whalers and often Whalers are difficult. In fact, he stated that once he special ordered from Bennett in order to fit a 15' Whaler. Now, the thing I like about the regular cylinder is that it meets the hook up for the actual tab closer to the stern providing an increase in transit downward. Hopefully, this will provide more lift. But I hope this doesn't contribute to cylinder or tab failure. (Tabman- what do you think?)
Tabman posted 01-15-2002 12:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tabman  Send Email to Tabman     
David,

I participate in a few boating forums on the web. I find this one to be exceptionally interesting. I really try to avoid posting unless I can help. I always try not to be perceived as spamming.

It is interesting that John Larson used the term Bass Boat Like, since we used to use that term to describe the small actuators.

On of the design criteria of the new M80 and M120 was to fit on small transoms. With the overhanging transoms, swim platforms, transducers etc, real-estate on the back of lots of today's boats is scarce, so hence the short actuators. But we make lots of different sized actuators, so we are usually able to find one that will fit a given transom.

As far as having the Trim Tabs travel a bit further with the standard actuators, yes they will a little bit. And the results you got prove that it is OK. The amount of travel that the standard actuator will make the Tab move through is about 20 degrees. Much more travel than 20 degrees however should be avoided since at that point the amount of drag the Trim Tab will produce outweighs the additional lift that is generated.

The combination of the standard actuator and the M120 or M80 trim tab will in no way weaken either the Trim Tab Assembly or the actuator.

I hope this helps.

Tom McGow
Bennett Marine

David Ratusnik posted 01-15-2002 04:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Tom- Thanks for the info. Pleased to have Bennett Sport Tabs/Batwings on the OR. Your info on 20 degree downward travel will be useful to me. John has fit many boats (Whalers, etc plus bass boats) over the years and is a strong advocate of your tabs. Thanks David

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