Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
Tohatsu 90 hp TLDI for Montauk
|Author||Topic: Tohatsu 90 hp TLDI for Montauk|
posted 05-10-2002 12:16 PM ET (US)
We talked about Tohatsu motors a while back, but not since the TLDI models have come out. Has anybody been around the new TLDI models or talked to anybody about them?
posted 05-10-2002 12:28 PM ET (US)
I understand that it is basically Mercury Optimax technology. Mercury has evidently decided not to go down that small in size with this technology, but Tohatsu is comfortable with it, as is Bombardier Ficht.
Mercury and Yamaha have decided that 4-strokes are the answer in these HP ratings.
posted 05-10-2002 01:43 PM ET (US)
On paper anyway it looks like an ideal choice for repowering a Montauk. Light, clean burning and 2-stroke performance. They also seem to be priced right.
posted 05-10-2002 02:15 PM ET (US)
I've heard nothing but good things about Tohatsu engines.
posted 05-16-2002 07:00 PM ET (US)
How much do they weigh?? I also read somewhere that Tohatsu is the Number 1 choice of Japanese Fishermen!!! They could buy any of the Jap. brands, but seam to prefer this one, either reliability or price?? Jack.
posted 05-16-2002 09:09 PM ET (US)
304lbs, here you go...
posted 05-16-2002 09:12 PM ET (US)
posted 05-16-2002 09:21 PM ET (US)
In looking at the specs if this Tohatsu performs OK it's a California 90HP that is only 11 lbs more then a 2 stroke merc 90!
posted 05-16-2002 11:30 PM ET (US)
I don't think either Tohatsu or Mercury came up with the injection technology. I believe they both license it from Orbital.
Mercury enhances its Optimax engines with sophisticated electronic engine control unit (ECU-555) and other technology.
Apparently Mercury did not adopt this technology for the mid-range power engines. All their 50-90 HP low emission engines are 4-stroke designs. They saved the Orbital injection technology for the 135-225 HP range.
Tohatsu, curiously, markets engines with the Orbital injection in the 50-90 HP range. Isn't that funny--exactly dovetailing with Mercury. Makes one wonder about the licensing agreements, eh?
posted 05-16-2002 11:49 PM ET (US)
Mercury and Tohatsu/Nissan have a few arangements including the production of some of Merc's smaller motors.
It's a small world, Merc/Tohatsu/Nissan/Yamaha all in bed together, as well as JohnRude & Suzuki that leaves Honda as the loaner. Wonder why?
posted 05-17-2002 01:11 PM ET (US)
I think Honda has always been a little bit of a loner as far as Japanese companies. I think Shochiro(sp?) Honda himself was a little bit of a loner. It is my understanding that when Honda wanted to sell cars in the US that the government would not provide the support to his activities that it provided to Toyota and others, but Honda went ahead without the "blessing" of the Japanese government. I think it also goes back to the culture of Honda and Honda thinking of itself as and engine company. They make good engines and put them to use. I would be very surprised to ever see a non-Honda motor in a Honda product.(I guess they did use Isuzu in the Honda badged Isuzus, but not for long.) I think Schochiro got his start when he obtained a quantity of small motors and mounted them on bicycles. But I digress. Kelly
posted 05-17-2002 01:39 PM ET (US)
Until recently, Honda's mid range 4-strokes used Mercury lower units & props, lock, stock and barrel, literally identical to Mercury's own engines. Now, finally, they have their own, "all Honda", units.
Licensing could be the reason Tohatsu has the lower HP "Optimax's", and they do make some of Mercury's small HP engines, but I think it has more to do with HP output. The Optimax system puts out less HP on a given block than the conventional 2-stroke. I think Mercury could not squeeze enough HP or speed out of the 3 cylinder blocks for DFI 75's and 90's. Tohatsu's are not known for speed at all, so their HP ratings are probably on the low side of the 10% allowance. Performance wise, it would be interesting to see how the Tohatsu DFI 90 runs with the other 2 & 4 stroke 90's.
posted 05-17-2002 02:19 PM ET (US)
Tohatsu claims that their DI is offers better performance than carbed two stoke or four stoke. http://www.tohatsu.com/tech_info/tldi_faqs.html
posted 05-17-2002 02:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the link, Taylor, and the engines look attractive. But until they tell WHOSE 2 and 4 strokes they're comparing to, those figures don't mean much. I'll bet they're using either their own or Yamaha's 90 2-stroke, and Honda's 4 stroke. All of these engines are the slowest in their class.
What about a dealer service network for this brand?
posted 05-17-2002 03:37 PM ET (US)
Based on my discussions with a dealer that sells Tohatsu, Yamaha, and Mercury, and comments on an old thread by a guy that used to race Tohatsu motors in the 50hp size, Tohatsus are kinda known for speed, at least in the lower hp. The dealer I mentioned was in an area with a lot of river boaters, and he said that they all wanted a Tohatsu because for the same hp rating it was the fastest small motor available. At least that is what he said. Kelly
posted 05-17-2002 04:33 PM ET (US)
As the owner of 3 Nissan/Tohatsu engines, I can tell you that they apparently are lacking in the corrosion-resistance area.
Although I am very conscientious about flushing, washing and waxing, all of the engines have areas where there is white,powdery oxidation occuring under the paint. The latest being a 2001 9.8 Nissan which is the kicker on my Montauk. There are already two areas of bubbling on the lower unit.
The engines crank readily, run smooth and strong and are economical, but their longevity in salt water is a question mark.
posted 05-17-2002 11:31 PM ET (US)
Interesting info on the Tohatsu corrosion "issues". My '69 Nauset was originally outfitted with the 55 Bearcat/Homelite engine. Boat was primarily operated in salt water. The motor was never a very happy puppy in that environment. I understand that other folks operating their BW/Bearcat in freshwater had a vastly different experience(s), than my family had.
I am going to replace the current motor (55 Evenrude) next year, and I've narrowed my choises down to : Yamaha 90 2 stroke, Merc 90 2 stroke, and Tohatsu 90 tldi. If the Tohatsu has "issues" regarding corrosion..perhaps I should strike it from my list. If anyone has one of these motors, I'd like to hear how its doing ??
posted 05-18-2002 11:46 PM ET (US)
Interesting that you shoud say that, I have a mid '80s 15hp Nissan, same as Tohatsu I think. Anyway, I got this motor used and think it was a salt water motor before I got it. There is a white powdery area as you discribed. I thought it might be from some type of poor care or maintenance, but now I wonder. The motor starts and runs great, but is a little noisy.
posted 05-19-2002 05:32 PM ET (US)
Kelly, I see you are in Atlanta, so your motor should survive a long time. Around here, a mid-80's outboard is relatively rare. Most of them have succumbed to the corrosion bug after 15 years. I took meticulous care of my 1980 Evinrude, but after 20 years, the corrosion was getting pretty serious. I have been somewhat taken aback by the early onset of the corrosion on my 2001 Nissan 9.8.
I'm happy to say though that my 2 year old Yamaha 90 is still pristine after spending most of it's life sitting at my dock. Maybe things are getting better in the anti-corrosion world!
posted 05-19-2002 06:43 PM ET (US)
I sot of feel for you Saltwater guys, not in a bad way, but in a "you really have to be resiliant with your outboards" kind of way. It really makes my 75` 85h.p. Johnson, and my 68` 85h.p. Johnson, both running strong seam very ancient!! Jack.
posted 05-20-2002 01:07 AM ET (US)
I have a 1998 Nissan 90 HP. So far I love it! Corrosion resistance on Nissan/Tohatsu's is not up to par with Yamaha. Yamaha's have the best corrosion resistance period. I think Nissans/Tohatsu's are probably more on the same level as the rest of the pack. Reliability is generally considered to be excellent with these motors.
If I was buying today and using the motor in Salt water I would definetly lean toward the Yamaha.
My 02 cents
posted 05-20-2002 09:20 AM ET (US)
Back when I the tech editor at Boating magazine, I used my 1973 17 Tashmoo to test an 85 Suzuki, 45 Honda and 70 Tohatsu.
The Suzuki topped out at 38 mph, the Honda 30 mph and the Tohatsu at 36 mph.
I recently sold my Tashmoo and replaced it with an 85 Montauk with a 85 90 Yamaha. After this season I am going to replace the Yamaha with a newer motor and I am leaning toward the 90 Tohatsu.
But finding one may not be easy because Tohatsu is a lot like Caterpillar. They fuss about the smallest details and only certain dealers will be able to sell the TLDI. They will not be made available to any dealer unless they are trained for the system.
Of the three motors tested, I bought the Tohatsu and never had a problem except that the paint peeled off the fiberglass cowling. Funny, it stuck to the metal great, but it peeled like an iguana from the fiberglass.
posted 05-30-2002 11:08 AM ET (US)
As far as standing up to salt, I have 3 of these engines, and all of them seem to handle the salt well. I think it depends on how well they are washed and that offcourse is an objective matter, everyone has there own opinion of what clean enough is.
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.